5 ms·

A toxin that helps oyster mushrooms devour worm flesh

69 points by gumby 4y ago

deafpolygon 4y ago
This illustrates how wonderfully inventive fungi can be in nature.
LatteLazy 4y ago
I used to have quite a reductionist world view: Biology is really just chemistry, chemistry is really just physics, physics is mostly mathematics etc. But the older I get the more I appreciate the incredible facets of Nature.
- flobosg 4y ago
  Mandatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/435/ https://xkcd.com/435/
- kroltan 4y ago
  Those points of view are not mutually exclusive, complex systems develop emergent behaviours, and those behaviours can often be even more fascinating than the rules that caused them.
Oxidation 4y ago
> researchers report that they’ve identified the substance, which is contained in globes that they compare to lollipops. 6 paragraphs and two images later, they deign to tell you the identity. I really find this kind of science journalism irritating. It's not a murder mystery, it's a digest (ha) of some research. Just spit it out and don't make me wonder if I've accidentally a word. Then go into how they figured it out and they won't have to obliquely refer to it as the "toxin" or "substance". I suppose other than feeling like they're "real writers" for building the suspense just like that TED talk on Creative Writing taught them, it lengthens dwell times if they drip feed it, which is good for the Metrics. The answer is 3-octanone by the way. See how I could have said that up front and not have to find clumsy workarounds if I needed to refer to it again?
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  Does anyone care that it's 3-octanone? Would someone read this article with a burning desire to know specifically which toxin it is? I thought it was interesting because (a) I didn't know fungi were (or intentionally) carnivorous and (b) it's interesting that something I've encountered in lavender etc is so toxic to these creatures. I get where you're coming from, but I thought there was plenty of other interesting material in the piece. It was NOT, IMHO, the usual "12 paragraphs of nothing then the answer at the end" that I think we both have come to expect?
  - Oxidation 4y ago
    Well not particularly, but the title promises to tell you. In order to delay that, they have, to me, forsaken a lot of clarity of expression (they've had to come up with at least two circumlocutions to keep the secret) for the sake of a trite "payoff". Describing the toxocysts without naming them as "globes they compare to lollipops" is very clumsy too. Compare how? Favourably? And why not just use the word "toxocyst" right there so that when they refer to it later the reference[1] is explicit? Additionally, anyone who knows the words toxo- and -cyst will also have an immediate clear understanding of what it is. It's also argubly adding vagueness because it's missed out that it's specifically the shape, and not any other lollipop-like quality that's been referenced. Look at how it was written in the original paper: > In this study, we show through genetic screens that P. ostreatus relies on a specialized structure, toxocysts, to paralyze the nematode C. elegans. A volatile compound, 3-octanone, stored inside toxocysts... See how they don't tease it, and just get on with saying it and just make it clear first time round? I'd have been marked down for the writing in my English lessons, and I wasn't even being paid to write this stuff. Then again, I wasn't bring marked based on website analytics. [1] "small globes called toxocysts that hang like fruit from the hyphae"
  - Symmetry 4y ago
    Not as common as viral or bacterial disease, but fungal infections kill over a million people every year.
    - 4y ago
tambourine_man 4y ago
I read a terrifying sci-fi many years ago of a genetically engineered fungus designed to digest our trash. It obviously mutates and starts digesting us. Scary stuff, never ate mushrooms without some suspicion after that.
- metacritic12 4y ago
  If it gives you any comfort, humans are already incredibly digestible by many organisms.
  - tambourine_man 4y ago
    Digested alive is what I meant.
    - jrumbut 4y ago
      So did they...
- Oxidation 4y ago
  Spores would get you anyway even if you don't eat them: https://earthexplodes.com/comics/070/ https://earthexplodes.com/comics/070/
  - tambourine_man 4y ago
    It was spores in the novel. Characters would notice it growing in their hands and feet, then it was a matter of days and noting that could be done. Shivery. [error 500 in the link]
- StreamBright 4y ago
  The last of us series is for you. :)
  - tambourine_man 4y ago
    Thanks, I'll pass :)
giantg2 4y ago
Seems like the compound is found in other fungi and plants too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Octanone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Octanone
dp-hackernews 4y ago
If you're interested check the BBC for a documentary titled "The Magic of Mushrooms" - fascinating, and apparently we're descendants of mushrooms! :-)
- freilanzer 4y ago
  > apparently we're descendants of mushrooms That sounds very difficult to believe.
  - xipho 4y ago
    Mushrooms are evolutionarily closer to animals than plants, so it's true in various ways. All life shares common elements, see the large and small mitochondrial subunits (rRNA). They are so critical to producing celluar energy that there are sequences are incredibly conserved, such that databases exists with aligments across life.
    - chasil 4y ago
      Plants have plastids, we do not, nor do fungi. There are several major types of plastids, and two are well-known: chloroplasts, and chromoplasts. Plastids emerged from symbiotic assimilation, as did the mitochondria. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastid
  - jjulius 4y ago
    I couldn't find a written article that would encapsulate the referenced documentary with a cursory Google search, but the documentary is up in full[0] on YT if you'd like to better understand it. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7mdAS7KlRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7mdAS7KlRw
  - adaptbrian 4y ago
    'Animals and fungi are each other's closest relatives: congruent evidence from multiple proteins' https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8265589/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8265589/
  - 4y ago
jonwinstanley 4y ago
This HN headline sounds like the start of a horror movie
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
haspoken 4y ago
https://archive.is/BUVcq https://archive.is/BUVcq

69 points by gumby 4y ago

This illustrates how wonderfully inventive fungi can be in nature.

I used to have quite a reductionist world view: Biology is really just chemistry, chemistry is really just physics, physics is mostly mathematics etc. But the older I get the more I appreciate the incredible facets of Nature.

flobosg 4y ago
Mandatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/435/ https://xkcd.com/435/
kroltan 4y ago
Those points of view are not mutually exclusive, complex systems develop emergent behaviours, and those behaviours can often be even more fascinating than the rules that caused them.

Oxidation 4y ago

> researchers report that they’ve identified the substance, which is contained in globes that they compare to lollipops. 6 paragraphs and two images later, they deign to tell you the identity. I really find this kind of science journalism irritating. It's not a murder mystery, it's a digest (ha) of some research. Just spit it out and don't make me wonder if I've accidentally a word. Then go into how they figured it out and they won't have to obliquely refer to it as the "toxin" or "substance". I suppose other than feeling like they're "real writers" for building the suspense just like that TED talk on Creative Writing taught them, it lengthens dwell times if they drip feed it, which is good for the Metrics. The answer is 3-octanone by the way. See how I could have said that up front and not have to find clumsy workarounds if I needed to refer to it again?

LatteLazy 4y ago
Does anyone care that it's 3-octanone? Would someone read this article with a burning desire to know specifically which toxin it is? I thought it was interesting because (a) I didn't know fungi were (or intentionally) carnivorous and (b) it's interesting that something I've encountered in lavender etc is so toxic to these creatures. I get where you're coming from, but I thought there was plenty of other interesting material in the piece. It was NOT, IMHO, the usual "12 paragraphs of nothing then the answer at the end" that I think we both have come to expect?
- Oxidation 4y ago
  Well not particularly, but the title promises to tell you. In order to delay that, they have, to me, forsaken a lot of clarity of expression (they've had to come up with at least two circumlocutions to keep the secret) for the sake of a trite "payoff". Describing the toxocysts without naming them as "globes they compare to lollipops" is very clumsy too. Compare how? Favourably? And why not just use the word "toxocyst" right there so that when they refer to it later the reference[1] is explicit? Additionally, anyone who knows the words toxo- and -cyst will also have an immediate clear understanding of what it is. It's also argubly adding vagueness because it's missed out that it's specifically the shape, and not any other lollipop-like quality that's been referenced. Look at how it was written in the original paper: > In this study, we show through genetic screens that P. ostreatus relies on a specialized structure, toxocysts, to paralyze the nematode C. elegans. A volatile compound, 3-octanone, stored inside toxocysts... See how they don't tease it, and just get on with saying it and just make it clear first time round? I'd have been marked down for the writing in my English lessons, and I wasn't even being paid to write this stuff. Then again, I wasn't bring marked based on website analytics. [1] "small globes called toxocysts that hang like fruit from the hyphae"
- Symmetry 4y ago
  Not as common as viral or bacterial disease, but fungal infections kill over a million people every year.
  - 4y ago

tambourine_man 4y ago

I read a terrifying sci-fi many years ago of a genetically engineered fungus designed to digest our trash. It obviously mutates and starts digesting us. Scary stuff, never ate mushrooms without some suspicion after that.

metacritic12 4y ago
If it gives you any comfort, humans are already incredibly digestible by many organisms.
- tambourine_man 4y ago
  Digested alive is what I meant.
  - jrumbut 4y ago
    So did they...
Oxidation 4y ago
Spores would get you anyway even if you don't eat them: https://earthexplodes.com/comics/070/ https://earthexplodes.com/comics/070/
- tambourine_man 4y ago
  It was spores in the novel. Characters would notice it growing in their hands and feet, then it was a matter of days and noting that could be done. Shivery. [error 500 in the link]
StreamBright 4y ago
The last of us series is for you. :)
- tambourine_man 4y ago
  Thanks, I'll pass :)

giantg2 4y ago

Seems like the compound is found in other fungi and plants too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Octanone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Octanone

dp-hackernews 4y ago

If you're interested check the BBC for a documentary titled "The Magic of Mushrooms" - fascinating, and apparently we're descendants of mushrooms! :-)

freilanzer 4y ago
> apparently we're descendants of mushrooms That sounds very difficult to believe.
- xipho 4y ago
  Mushrooms are evolutionarily closer to animals than plants, so it's true in various ways. All life shares common elements, see the large and small mitochondrial subunits (rRNA). They are so critical to producing celluar energy that there are sequences are incredibly conserved, such that databases exists with aligments across life.
  - chasil 4y ago
    Plants have plastids, we do not, nor do fungi. There are several major types of plastids, and two are well-known: chloroplasts, and chromoplasts. Plastids emerged from symbiotic assimilation, as did the mitochondria. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastid
- jjulius 4y ago
  I couldn't find a written article that would encapsulate the referenced documentary with a cursory Google search, but the documentary is up in full[0] on YT if you'd like to better understand it. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7mdAS7KlRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7mdAS7KlRw
- adaptbrian 4y ago
  'Animals and fungi are each other's closest relatives: congruent evidence from multiple proteins' https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8265589/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8265589/
- 4y ago

jonwinstanley 4y ago

This HN headline sounds like the start of a horror movie

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

haspoken 4y ago

https://archive.is/BUVcq https://archive.is/BUVcq