5 ms·

Well that's a change. When I served the military would actively fight addiction problems, sometimes to an extreme. As an example one of the people I served wi

Well that's a change. When I served the military would actively fight addiction problems, sometimes to an extreme. As an example one of the people I served with had a drinking problem. He was put in the brig and had to crawl on all fours pushing a beer can around the complex with his nose all day, every day. This was extreme but so was his BAC. The alternate option I heard a couple colonels arguing for was a court-martial and dishonorable discharge. I can see the benefit to keeping the gambling addiction losses in-house but encouraging money problems and then punishing people for said money problems seems a bit like an artificially created circular problem. MWR programs are supposed to be beneficial, not detrimental. Get them some video game consoles. Buy them all VR setups and require {n} hours of physically demanding games and game scores. It's probably less cost than the fallout from gambling addiction. VR combat training rigs, like ARMA on steroids but actually causes pain when you get hit. Surely someone here in the HN world could fund such a thing. Provide time-off and money to the top tier contestants of the VR simulators. Oh and don't limit this to combat simulation. Implement medical training, surgical training, electrical training, construction, military vehicle repair, flight training like X-plane on steroids, space flight training like Avorion on steroids, recce training, weapon repair training, etc... Let them explore skill-sets they and the military were unaware they had.

zyang 4y ago
Maybe the military doesn't really care about the wellbeing of the troops as long as it doesn't affect their effectiveness...?
- LinuxBender 4y ago
  If so, that's a big change from my time. Perhaps some generals need to be reallocated to Antarctica for an extended tour of duty. Congress ultimately controls purse strings, but Generals can make a phone call and put a stop to anything.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Like any large organization, the organization does care but sometimes some of the managers don't care as much or don't do a good job. The military brass definitely cares about and understands this based on my experience. It's just hard to pull off.
- jabroni_salad 4y ago
  Anyone with a clearance will specifically be looked at for gambling. Gamblers can eventually be leveraged. Considering that the military is one of the fattest pipelines for clearance workers, it'd be a good idea to tamp down on this.
  - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
    Not just gambling. Any debt. I worked at a place that sold expensive things. Sold a thing to a guy. Had two guys show up a couple days latter to talk about exactly how he financed thing and etc. Turns out he was an just a middling engineer on the F-35 program, but they confirmed everything he told them using us.
    - shanebellone 4y ago
      I wanted to confirm that significant debt can preclude someone from acquiring a security clearance. Significant new debt can be reason to rescind an active clearance too.
      - red-iron-pine 4y ago
        Bankruptcy & poor finances is the #1 reason for a clearance application to be rejected. Shows a pattern of poor judgement, and makes the applicant way, way more likely to be bribed or blackmailed. Bankruptcy also has a court angle, which means you can, with an amount of effort that's trivial for large, nation-state intelligence orgs, find a list of all recent bankruptcy cases in, say, Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia. The CI types lose a lot of sleep over this stuff.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Ok, but isn't there a rather large amount of personel who do basic jobs and won't do anything special nor won't move up the ranks? 18-23 years old young men that enter and leave and that is it. As in, there is huge amount of other people too.
    - 4y ago
ericmay 4y ago
My favorite was if you got put in the drunk tank our 1SG would go pick you up and make you run back to the barracks (assuming you didn't do anything besides just be drunk). It would be cool to see makerspaces or something similar on bases. I recall there were mechanic shops (I could be misremembering) where you could bring your car to work on it and borrow tools. With tools now you could create some hiking clubs and stuff too. Doing this stuff isn't easy though and I know when I was finished with duty and finished working out for the second time that day I really didn't have energy to do much except play video games and knock back a few beers. Creating new programs, clubs, initiatives are hard. And in the military often times you have turnover on the bases so it's hard to maintain continuity even when someone creates something. If it were up to me I'd have a cadre of 3-10 individuals who ran, funded, maintained clubs and programs for soldiers. I'll not be surprised if I find out that this already exists either lol.
- wdb 4y ago
  In my country it is even difficult to get a security clearance when your siblings are a massive drug or alcohol addict. Due to high chance of bribery
  - ericmay 4y ago
    It's very difficult to obtain and retain a security clearance in the US if you were a drug or alcohol addict as well. They also monitor debts and that is a factor for security clearances as well.
- CobaltFire 4y ago
  Bases are getting makerspaces; I discovered that Miramar has one in the base library a couple of months ago! They are rolling them out as they get funding.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    That's really cool and good to hear. Thank you
LAC-Tech 4y ago
He was put in the brig and had to crawl on all fours pushing a beer can around the complex with his nose all day, every day. Damn if only I could have done that to my parents.
jhbadger 4y ago
Historically, the US military used to (until 1975) give out free cigarettes in rations, so there's a precedent in encouraging addiction as well.
- p1necone 4y ago
  I doubt that was really the intent. Back then so many people smoked, and cigarettes were so "normal" that not putting them in rations would probably be akin to not giving people coffee today.
maxerickson 4y ago
It's about 7 cents out of every $1000 of payroll, if I did the math right. (seems that wages are about $140 billion a year) Of course the average being tiny doesn't mean it isn't causing problems for people that gamble way more than the average.
- gowld 4y ago
  Did you remember to only count payroll from the the non-domestic bases that have slot machines?
  - maxerickson 4y ago
    No, I overlooked that. Good point.
awritawirj 4y ago
That's almost refreshing to hear. When I was in the US Navy 2004-2010, pretty much all alcoholism was aggressively swept under the rug. Per Navy regulations, anyone who gets a DUI is required to attend rehab. We had a Reactor Operator on my submarine who got two DUIs. He requested rehab in writing twice and was twice denied because "ship's schedule does not support". Then he re-enlisted, I can't imagine why. A few weeks after re-enlisting he got a third DUI. His wife divorced him, he attempted suicide, and then he was discharged and was allowed to keep his bonus. Our Chief of the Boat (equivalent to Command Master Chief or Command Master Sergeant) was an extreme alcoholic and several sailors filed complaints in writing alleging that he showed up to work visibly drunk regularly, always having driven himself to work. The command ignored that too. Extreme alcoholism, getting black-out drunk multiple nights per week, getting hospitalized for alcohol poisoning once per year, committing drunken assault and/or vandalism and having your division Chief sweep it under the rug and then extort you to re-enlist was common on my ship. I spoke to friends on other ships and it appears that this was the norm throughout the Pacific submarine fleet in 2010. Rotten to the core.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

zyang 4y ago

Maybe the military doesn't really care about the wellbeing of the troops as long as it doesn't affect their effectiveness...?

LinuxBender 4y ago
If so, that's a big change from my time. Perhaps some generals need to be reallocated to Antarctica for an extended tour of duty. Congress ultimately controls purse strings, but Generals can make a phone call and put a stop to anything.
ericmay 4y ago
Like any large organization, the organization does care but sometimes some of the managers don't care as much or don't do a good job. The military brass definitely cares about and understands this based on my experience. It's just hard to pull off.
jabroni_salad 4y ago
Anyone with a clearance will specifically be looked at for gambling. Gamblers can eventually be leveraged. Considering that the military is one of the fattest pipelines for clearance workers, it'd be a good idea to tamp down on this.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  Not just gambling. Any debt. I worked at a place that sold expensive things. Sold a thing to a guy. Had two guys show up a couple days latter to talk about exactly how he financed thing and etc. Turns out he was an just a middling engineer on the F-35 program, but they confirmed everything he told them using us.
  - shanebellone 4y ago
    I wanted to confirm that significant debt can preclude someone from acquiring a security clearance. Significant new debt can be reason to rescind an active clearance too.
    - red-iron-pine 4y ago
      Bankruptcy & poor finances is the #1 reason for a clearance application to be rejected. Shows a pattern of poor judgement, and makes the applicant way, way more likely to be bribed or blackmailed. Bankruptcy also has a court angle, which means you can, with an amount of effort that's trivial for large, nation-state intelligence orgs, find a list of all recent bankruptcy cases in, say, Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia. The CI types lose a lot of sleep over this stuff.
- watwut 4y ago
  Ok, but isn't there a rather large amount of personel who do basic jobs and won't do anything special nor won't move up the ranks? 18-23 years old young men that enter and leave and that is it. As in, there is huge amount of other people too.
  - 4y ago

ericmay 4y ago

My favorite was if you got put in the drunk tank our 1SG would go pick you up and make you run back to the barracks (assuming you didn't do anything besides just be drunk). It would be cool to see makerspaces or something similar on bases. I recall there were mechanic shops (I could be misremembering) where you could bring your car to work on it and borrow tools. With tools now you could create some hiking clubs and stuff too. Doing this stuff isn't easy though and I know when I was finished with duty and finished working out for the second time that day I really didn't have energy to do much except play video games and knock back a few beers. Creating new programs, clubs, initiatives are hard. And in the military often times you have turnover on the bases so it's hard to maintain continuity even when someone creates something. If it were up to me I'd have a cadre of 3-10 individuals who ran, funded, maintained clubs and programs for soldiers. I'll not be surprised if I find out that this already exists either lol.

wdb 4y ago
In my country it is even difficult to get a security clearance when your siblings are a massive drug or alcohol addict. Due to high chance of bribery
- ericmay 4y ago
  It's very difficult to obtain and retain a security clearance in the US if you were a drug or alcohol addict as well. They also monitor debts and that is a factor for security clearances as well.
CobaltFire 4y ago
Bases are getting makerspaces; I discovered that Miramar has one in the base library a couple of months ago! They are rolling them out as they get funding.
- ericmay 4y ago
  That's really cool and good to hear. Thank you

LAC-Tech 4y ago

He was put in the brig and had to crawl on all fours pushing a beer can around the complex with his nose all day, every day. Damn if only I could have done that to my parents.

jhbadger 4y ago

Historically, the US military used to (until 1975) give out free cigarettes in rations, so there's a precedent in encouraging addiction as well.

p1necone 4y ago
I doubt that was really the intent. Back then so many people smoked, and cigarettes were so "normal" that not putting them in rations would probably be akin to not giving people coffee today.

maxerickson 4y ago

It's about 7 cents out of every $1000 of payroll, if I did the math right. (seems that wages are about $140 billion a year) Of course the average being tiny doesn't mean it isn't causing problems for people that gamble way more than the average.

gowld 4y ago
Did you remember to only count payroll from the the non-domestic bases that have slot machines?
- maxerickson 4y ago
  No, I overlooked that. Good point.

awritawirj 4y ago

That's almost refreshing to hear. When I was in the US Navy 2004-2010, pretty much all alcoholism was aggressively swept under the rug. Per Navy regulations, anyone who gets a DUI is required to attend rehab. We had a Reactor Operator on my submarine who got two DUIs. He requested rehab in writing twice and was twice denied because "ship's schedule does not support". Then he re-enlisted, I can't imagine why. A few weeks after re-enlisting he got a third DUI. His wife divorced him, he attempted suicide, and then he was discharged and was allowed to keep his bonus. Our Chief of the Boat (equivalent to Command Master Chief or Command Master Sergeant) was an extreme alcoholic and several sailors filed complaints in writing alleging that he showed up to work visibly drunk regularly, always having driven himself to work. The command ignored that too. Extreme alcoholism, getting black-out drunk multiple nights per week, getting hospitalized for alcohol poisoning once per year, committing drunken assault and/or vandalism and having your division Chief sweep it under the rug and then extort you to re-enlist was common on my ship. I spoke to friends on other ships and it appears that this was the norm throughout the Pacific submarine fleet in 2010. Rotten to the core.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]