4 ms·

I graduated in 09. * It's easier to get a job if you already have a job. It's okay to take a shitty job as long as you don't get complacent about it. * Gaps g

I graduated in 09. * It's easier to get a job if you already have a job. It's okay to take a shitty job as long as you don't get complacent about it. * Gaps get stressed by job seekers in advice requests because it is a question that can make you look bad. However, if you are actually at an interview, they are fishing for bad dealbreakers not minor imperfections. Don't worry to much about it. * If you get hired via a staffing agency, you could be cut at any time arbitrarily. I once got laid off 24 hours after signing a contract renewal. Keep as good an emergency fund as you can manage. * Unemployment benefits are not charity, it is insurance that you pay for out of your wage. Dont let pride or shame convince you not to use it. * Network aggressively and be likeable. You never know when that linkedin connection from a shit job 3 years ago will throw you a bone. I know everybody on HN really likes their leetcode but if you have an inside reference, the interview is reduced to just a vibe check. * There are grades of recruiters and higher grade jobs tend to be assigned to higher grade recruiters. The guys sending you irrelevant callcenter gigs on the other side of the country can be ignored as they are just playing the numbers game too, but if a recruiter advertises something decent to you the least you should do is reply with a "not right now but thanks". This results in a higher quality recruiter keeping you in their rolodex for later. * Hire a professional resume writer for you. This goes not just for noobs, but also people who have been at the same gig for awhile and have not been through the hiring game recently. * Cold applications are just a numbers game. Managers get 1000 applications for 1 seat. Yes, tune your resume/letter for the job, but don't spend too much time on it. * If you are offboarding, just plagiarize Nixon's resignation letter if you can't write anything nice at all. In a fiery departure, your best case scenario is that nothing happens and your worst case is that somebody who likes you will no longer want to be your reference or whatever. Your first one will always feel bad, but people coming and going is just part of life and doesnt have to be a big deal. https://www.archives.gov/historical-docs/todays-doc/?dod-date=809 https://www.archives.gov/historical-docs/todays-doc/?dod-dat...

fernandopj 4y ago
> Network aggressively and be likeable. You never know when that linkedin connection from a shit job 3 years ago will throw you a bone. I know everybody on HN really likes their leetcode but if you have an inside reference, the interview is reduced to just a vibe check. ++1 this. Couldn't have said better myself. I went more than 10 years not having to apply anywhere, switching jobs just by referral - interviews felt like friendly meetings. Only broke that streak when interviewing for a job in another country.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  Maybe I'm just not that good at networking, but I haven't found this to be true. Networking can let you bypass the very top of the funnel: Where you're pissing your resume into the void. And that's significant! But I've never "networked" myself into a job. Your standard Software Engineer peers in other companies just don't tend to have the power to hire. They may know which jobs are real, which ones are good, and might be able to help coach / steer you the right way, but I've never seen a case where I got an actual job offer from a peer without at least still having to go through the "phone screen + whiteboard hazing" grind. The best I've ever got out of networking was, "Thanks for re-connecting! You should apply for job #41190, since I particularly know that hiring manager is really motivated to hire! Prepare for questions A, B, and maybe C. Happy to do a mock interview. Good luck!" And I got the job, so that's great! But, have realistic expectations. You're not going to bypass the queue and get an offer letter just because you're good friends with one of that company's Senior Software Engineers. EDIT: Maybe it's different at the ultra-high level, like "VP of Engineering." I have no idea, never been up to that level and don't have peers there. But I can't imagine that a "VP of Engineering" candidate has to do phone screens, and grind at the whiteboard, and have to deal with recruiters and ghosting. Maybe they don't even have to apply and get traditionally interviewed like us commoners. Who knows? Any VPs of Engineering on HN care to chime in and describe how hiring works at your level?
  - vehemenz 4y ago
    We could be talking about different things, but networking at conferences and professional events has been productive for me. I'm talking real-life socializing here, not LinkedIn. You can size people up quickly and determine whether they are competent/sane without a lengthy interview process. It's less about having friends in high places than sharing war stories and establishing a rapport with like-minded people in an informal, semi-work-related context. You're not really trying to find a job or employees, but you might meet enough people and your contacts eventually become an organic part of the hiring or job-hunting process.
    - legerdemain 4y ago
vehemenz 4y ago
I entered the job market in '08 and agree overall, but I will add a few caveats from my personal experience: > If you get hired via a staffing agency, you could be cut at any time arbitrarily. I once got laid off 24 hours after signing a contract renewal. Keep as good an emergency fund as you can manage. Assuming you are a useful employee, being a temp or a contractor can save you from being laid off because you are paid less, don't have the same benefits package, and are usually paid from a separate, more liquid general fund. If you believe in the power of personal anecdote, this saved my job once. > Cold applications are just a numbers game. Managers get 1000 applications for 1 seat. Yes, tune your resume/letter for the job, but don't spend too much time on it. I don't think this advice applies to everyone. If you apply for jobs that are a good match for your skills, or you are simply exceptional, your base success rate will be higher in the first place, and you will get more ROI from a tuned resume and a serious cover letter. Just be mindful of where you are putting your effort, and don't be afraid to change up your strategy if it's not working.

fernandopj 4y ago

> Network aggressively and be likeable. You never know when that linkedin connection from a shit job 3 years ago will throw you a bone. I know everybody on HN really likes their leetcode but if you have an inside reference, the interview is reduced to just a vibe check. ++1 this. Couldn't have said better myself. I went more than 10 years not having to apply anywhere, switching jobs just by referral - interviews felt like friendly meetings. Only broke that streak when interviewing for a job in another country.

ryandrake 4y ago
Maybe I'm just not that good at networking, but I haven't found this to be true. Networking can let you bypass the very top of the funnel: Where you're pissing your resume into the void. And that's significant! But I've never "networked" myself into a job. Your standard Software Engineer peers in other companies just don't tend to have the power to hire. They may know which jobs are real, which ones are good, and might be able to help coach / steer you the right way, but I've never seen a case where I got an actual job offer from a peer without at least still having to go through the "phone screen + whiteboard hazing" grind. The best I've ever got out of networking was, "Thanks for re-connecting! You should apply for job #41190, since I particularly know that hiring manager is really motivated to hire! Prepare for questions A, B, and maybe C. Happy to do a mock interview. Good luck!" And I got the job, so that's great! But, have realistic expectations. You're not going to bypass the queue and get an offer letter just because you're good friends with one of that company's Senior Software Engineers. EDIT: Maybe it's different at the ultra-high level, like "VP of Engineering." I have no idea, never been up to that level and don't have peers there. But I can't imagine that a "VP of Engineering" candidate has to do phone screens, and grind at the whiteboard, and have to deal with recruiters and ghosting. Maybe they don't even have to apply and get traditionally interviewed like us commoners. Who knows? Any VPs of Engineering on HN care to chime in and describe how hiring works at your level?
- vehemenz 4y ago
  We could be talking about different things, but networking at conferences and professional events has been productive for me. I'm talking real-life socializing here, not LinkedIn. You can size people up quickly and determine whether they are competent/sane without a lengthy interview process. It's less about having friends in high places than sharing war stories and establishing a rapport with like-minded people in an informal, semi-work-related context. You're not really trying to find a job or employees, but you might meet enough people and your contacts eventually become an organic part of the hiring or job-hunting process.
  - legerdemain 4y ago

vehemenz 4y ago

I entered the job market in '08 and agree overall, but I will add a few caveats from my personal experience: > If you get hired via a staffing agency, you could be cut at any time arbitrarily. I once got laid off 24 hours after signing a contract renewal. Keep as good an emergency fund as you can manage. Assuming you are a useful employee, being a temp or a contractor can save you from being laid off because you are paid less, don't have the same benefits package, and are usually paid from a separate, more liquid general fund. If you believe in the power of personal anecdote, this saved my job once. > Cold applications are just a numbers game. Managers get 1000 applications for 1 seat. Yes, tune your resume/letter for the job, but don't spend too much time on it. I don't think this advice applies to everyone. If you apply for jobs that are a good match for your skills, or you are simply exceptional, your base success rate will be higher in the first place, and you will get more ROI from a tuned resume and a serious cover letter. Just be mindful of where you are putting your effort, and don't be afraid to change up your strategy if it's not working.