10 ms·

Also Bitwarden recently raised 100M from VC so yeah, the clock is ticking now.

afavour 4y ago
They did? Oh JFC I just switched from 1Password to avoid using a VC backed service. At least there's always Vaultwarden, now all I need is a service I can pay to host an instance for me. ...and to not take VC funding. https://github.com/dani-garcia/vaultwarden https://github.com/dani-garcia/vaultwarden Though I fear it’s only a matter of time before the VC gods demand the client apps remove compatibility and they have to be forked too.
- mfer 4y ago
  Not to totally burst your bubble but 1Password took funding a few years ago [1]. I say this as a 1Password user. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/password-manager-1password-raises-first-round-of-venture-capital-11573740060 https://www.wsj.com/articles/password-manager-1password-rais...
  - afavour 4y ago
    Oh I know, I switched from 1Password to Bitwarden for exactly that reason.
- jorvi 4y ago
  I switched from 1Password to Bitwarden, imported my vault, and then realized that their client doesn’t even support drag ‘n drop. I’ve been wanting to switch from 1Password to Bitwarden for years, but each year I try it I’m just flummoxed by how atrociously behind the UX / UI still is. Unless you (or whoever you’re getting to switch) are an absolute open source absolutist: do yourself a favor and go for 1Password.
  - afavour 4y ago
    I did try to switch a year or so ago and got really frustrated. Tried again a week ago and Bitwarden does seem a little better. It helps that it feels like 1Password's app has been getting more bloated over time (though I have no data to support that assertion).
    - roustem 4y ago
      1Password certainly added a ton of new features recently :) Did you check 1Password developer tools, like SSH-agent server, git commit signing, and CLI? https://developer.1password.com/ https://developer.1password.com/ Or the new item and file sharing. https://support.1password.com/share-items/ https://support.1password.com/share-items/
      - miked85 4y ago
        I refuse to use a cloud-based password manager, they will all be hacked eventually. I will continue to use and pay for the standalone 1Password as long as possible, and then be forced to self-host vaultwarden.
        jorvi 4y ago
        Almost two decades without any serious breach does inspire some confidence. I put them under the same reliability umbrella (maybe even a touch higher) than Fastmail, which is high praise IMO.
      - afavour 4y ago
        I have no interest in those things, they're good examples of what I don't want in my password manager. Sorry, I don't mean to sound like an ass, they look like very well put together features. They just remind me of when Dropbox decided to start offering document editing. Not what I go there for.
        roustem 4y ago
        Fair enough, everyone has their own requirements. I'd argue that all modern operating systems have password management already built-in. We have a lot of 1Password customers with families and team members that require more than a single vault, need an option to recover team/family member access and often have to securely share data with other people, accountants and lawyers. Also, many of developers and admins that want to keep their SSH keys safe.
  - panzi 4y ago
    Bitwarden is the first password manager I ever used. Where would it use drag and drop and for what? I wish it would be better controllable vie keyboard-only. That is, when you use the Firefox add on and tab out of the Bitwarden popup and tab back in again it remembers the focus on e.g. the copy password button, you just have to hit space again and tab back to the terminal window where you need to use the password. But Brave doesn't remember the focus so annoyingly I have to grab the mouse.
    - selykg 4y ago
      In 1Password there's at least a half dozen ways that drag and drop could be used: - Drag a password into a password field - Drag an attachment from Finder/Explorer into an item - Drag an item from vault to vault (or collection in Bitwarden parlance) - Drag an item into a tag or folder to add that item to the folder, or add that tag to the item - Drag an app to the 1Password icon to create a software license item with the icon of the app as well as name There are also drag and drop functions, some similar to above, on iOS as well. Bitwarden is... and I agree with the grand parent here, awful from a UX angle, compared to 1Password. It's certainly functional, but that's about where it ends for me.
      - dddw 4y ago
        You must be on mac, because my 1pw experience is horrible on Linux. Edit a password in the browserextention opens an new tab in n which i have to login all again. Ugh. Bitwarden at least doesn't do that. Drag and drop? Nope.
        jorvi 4y ago
        With 1Password 8, AgileBits made 1Password an universal Electron app. Experience is virtually the same whether you are on Mac, Windows or Linux. The 1Password browser extension and application should sync, but it’s experimental on Linux AFAIK.
        selykg 4y ago
        Technically it does the same thing on Mac, it opens the Mac app. But on a Mac there's universal unlock, so if you have the extension unlocked, the app will unlock, so it opens the item you want to edit in edit mode. If you don't have the app installed it opens the website in a tab to signin and edit.
- hardwaresofton 4y ago
  Hey I’m building a service[0] that will do just that —- mind if I get in touch with you? Or feel free to send me an email! I selfhost and use Vaultwarden myself and it is fantastic, so I wanted to support it on Nimbus fairly quickly (it’s going to jump the queue). Deciding never to take VC funding is a big step but I’m definitely open to it as I’m trying to build a “lifestyle” competitor to AWS. [0]: https://nimbusws.com https://nimbusws.com
zucked 4y ago
I'm happy for the one dev who's been lone rangering as I hope it means he's finally getting paid, but the pressure is going to be on to get an ROI.
- mfer 4y ago
  If he was not being paid before it means he had not built a sustainable business. That means changes will need to come in the future to do that. If he had a sustainable business and took the VC funding it means he has grander ambitions. That will mean change as well. No matter how you look at it there will be change coming. Fueled by people who want a return on their investment.
  - agrippanux 4y ago
    Doesn’t necessarily mean change will come to the current offering; acquisitions can happen because new or enhancing existing product lines (like enterprise) are in the future.
- sph 4y ago
  It is possible to build a profitable business without investors or venture capitals, you know.
- dahfizz 4y ago
  Insane radical idea: Businesses can actually make a profit by having income higher than expenses. You can pay yourself that way.
  - alex_suzuki 4y ago
    Heresy!
  - sirsinsalot 4y ago
    What does "make a profit" mean? Is that the money from IPO? Or money laundering? Idgi
cpsns 4y ago
> Bitwarden recently raised 100M from VC I wasn’t aware of this, but I’m glad I am now. If that’s the case it’s time to look elsewhere or self host, VC funds and acquisitions are rarely good for users so I’ll assume the worst.
- mbesto 4y ago
  > VC funds and acquisitions are rarely good for users Where does this sentiment come from? I know very few applications I use that are VC funded or haven't gone through acquisitions...
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    The notion that all software must be provided free of charge and that making any profit is a cardinal sin.
    - wvenable 4y ago
      No, it's just that growth necessary to satisfy VC investment is unobtainable so solid products eat themselves attempting to achieve that growth.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Or it could be that the probability of having to do anti user things to earn an ROI for a $100M investment into a password manager is too high. $100M to develop a new processor or phone or vaccine or search engine or social network that delivers video to everyone worldwide is different than $100M to a password manager or other “simpler” project.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bsg75 4y ago
    It comes from a concern that VC backed investments demand a constant level of revenue growth, causing a company to add features or integrations that do not improve the base product. Organic growth is usually insufficient for stockholders, whose demands become a priority over stakeholders. If the user base does not increase at some rate determined by the investor, then growth comes in the form of advertising, partnerships, or similar that negatively affect the _product_ existing customers signed up for.
sph 4y ago
Ah for fuck's sake. It keeps happening to all the software I love. I guess I'll have to stop relying on convenience (I was a 1Password user years ago) and go 100% open-source. None of the libre offerings seem to be as convenient and polished, but at least they're not into some VC's pocket ready to squeeze as much profit as possible out of my paid membership. What's a good OSS alternative that works with iOS and Linux? Anything that's audited? (perhaps that's asking for too much)
- attentive 4y ago
  keypassxc
- lumb63 4y ago
  I use KeePass. It’s up to you to sync passwords and they’re stored locally. I see those as features despite that they’re inconvenient.
  - qwerpy 4y ago
    I use cloud storage to store the kdbx file and sync it across a PC and my phone. It’s pretty awesome 99% of the time and just works. Once in a while you get a merge conflict and it’s not so good.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
      Even merge conflicts have been a lot better for me in recent years. My only worry with KeePass is that I have to rely on potentially sketchy client applications but I'm also fortunate enough to have the skills to make my own if I really felt the need. It's one of the few "not-my-solution" pieces of software which continually gives me a sense of data ownership.
    - lumb63 4y ago
      I run an SSH server on my laptop and SFTP it to my phone via Strongbox when I’m local.
  - noirscape 4y ago
sngz 4y ago
was considering switching, guess I'll stick to keepass
shp0ngle 4y ago
Ugh. I JUST migrated to Bitwarden. VCs ruin everything.
- hardwaresofton 4y ago
  If you want to switch to vaultwarden but don’t want to host it I’m working on something for that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34434877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34434877 I’m not convinced Bitwarden will go down the drain quite so quickly…

They did? Oh JFC I just switched from 1Password to avoid using a VC backed service. At least there's always Vaultwarden, now all I need is a service I can pay to host an instance for me. ...and to not take VC funding. https://github.com/dani-garcia/vaultwarden https://github.com/dani-garcia/vaultwarden Though I fear it’s only a matter of time before the VC gods demand the client apps remove compatibility and they have to be forked too.

mfer 4y ago
Not to totally burst your bubble but 1Password took funding a few years ago [1]. I say this as a 1Password user. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/password-manager-1password-raises-first-round-of-venture-capital-11573740060 https://www.wsj.com/articles/password-manager-1password-rais...
- afavour 4y ago
  Oh I know, I switched from 1Password to Bitwarden for exactly that reason.
jorvi 4y ago
I switched from 1Password to Bitwarden, imported my vault, and then realized that their client doesn’t even support drag ‘n drop. I’ve been wanting to switch from 1Password to Bitwarden for years, but each year I try it I’m just flummoxed by how atrociously behind the UX / UI still is. Unless you (or whoever you’re getting to switch) are an absolute open source absolutist: do yourself a favor and go for 1Password.
- afavour 4y ago
  I did try to switch a year or so ago and got really frustrated. Tried again a week ago and Bitwarden does seem a little better. It helps that it feels like 1Password's app has been getting more bloated over time (though I have no data to support that assertion).
  - roustem 4y ago
    1Password certainly added a ton of new features recently :) Did you check 1Password developer tools, like SSH-agent server, git commit signing, and CLI? https://developer.1password.com/ https://developer.1password.com/ Or the new item and file sharing. https://support.1password.com/share-items/ https://support.1password.com/share-items/
    - miked85 4y ago
      I refuse to use a cloud-based password manager, they will all be hacked eventually. I will continue to use and pay for the standalone 1Password as long as possible, and then be forced to self-host vaultwarden.
      - jorvi 4y ago
        Almost two decades without any serious breach does inspire some confidence. I put them under the same reliability umbrella (maybe even a touch higher) than Fastmail, which is high praise IMO.
    - afavour 4y ago
      I have no interest in those things, they're good examples of what I don't want in my password manager. Sorry, I don't mean to sound like an ass, they look like very well put together features. They just remind me of when Dropbox decided to start offering document editing. Not what I go there for.
      - roustem 4y ago
        Fair enough, everyone has their own requirements. I'd argue that all modern operating systems have password management already built-in. We have a lot of 1Password customers with families and team members that require more than a single vault, need an option to recover team/family member access and often have to securely share data with other people, accountants and lawyers. Also, many of developers and admins that want to keep their SSH keys safe.
- panzi 4y ago
  Bitwarden is the first password manager I ever used. Where would it use drag and drop and for what? I wish it would be better controllable vie keyboard-only. That is, when you use the Firefox add on and tab out of the Bitwarden popup and tab back in again it remembers the focus on e.g. the copy password button, you just have to hit space again and tab back to the terminal window where you need to use the password. But Brave doesn't remember the focus so annoyingly I have to grab the mouse.
  - selykg 4y ago
    In 1Password there's at least a half dozen ways that drag and drop could be used: - Drag a password into a password field - Drag an attachment from Finder/Explorer into an item - Drag an item from vault to vault (or collection in Bitwarden parlance) - Drag an item into a tag or folder to add that item to the folder, or add that tag to the item - Drag an app to the 1Password icon to create a software license item with the icon of the app as well as name There are also drag and drop functions, some similar to above, on iOS as well. Bitwarden is... and I agree with the grand parent here, awful from a UX angle, compared to 1Password. It's certainly functional, but that's about where it ends for me.
    - dddw 4y ago
      You must be on mac, because my 1pw experience is horrible on Linux. Edit a password in the browserextention opens an new tab in n which i have to login all again. Ugh. Bitwarden at least doesn't do that. Drag and drop? Nope.
      - jorvi 4y ago
        With 1Password 8, AgileBits made 1Password an universal Electron app. Experience is virtually the same whether you are on Mac, Windows or Linux. The 1Password browser extension and application should sync, but it’s experimental on Linux AFAIK.
      - selykg 4y ago
        Technically it does the same thing on Mac, it opens the Mac app. But on a Mac there's universal unlock, so if you have the extension unlocked, the app will unlock, so it opens the item you want to edit in edit mode. If you don't have the app installed it opens the website in a tab to signin and edit.
hardwaresofton 4y ago
Hey I’m building a service[0] that will do just that —- mind if I get in touch with you? Or feel free to send me an email! I selfhost and use Vaultwarden myself and it is fantastic, so I wanted to support it on Nimbus fairly quickly (it’s going to jump the queue). Deciding never to take VC funding is a big step but I’m definitely open to it as I’m trying to build a “lifestyle” competitor to AWS. [0]: https://nimbusws.com https://nimbusws.com

zucked 4y ago

I'm happy for the one dev who's been lone rangering as I hope it means he's finally getting paid, but the pressure is going to be on to get an ROI.

mfer 4y ago
If he was not being paid before it means he had not built a sustainable business. That means changes will need to come in the future to do that. If he had a sustainable business and took the VC funding it means he has grander ambitions. That will mean change as well. No matter how you look at it there will be change coming. Fueled by people who want a return on their investment.
- agrippanux 4y ago
  Doesn’t necessarily mean change will come to the current offering; acquisitions can happen because new or enhancing existing product lines (like enterprise) are in the future.
sph 4y ago
It is possible to build a profitable business without investors or venture capitals, you know.
dahfizz 4y ago
Insane radical idea: Businesses can actually make a profit by having income higher than expenses. You can pay yourself that way.
- alex_suzuki 4y ago
  Heresy!
- sirsinsalot 4y ago
  What does "make a profit" mean? Is that the money from IPO? Or money laundering? Idgi

cpsns 4y ago

> Bitwarden recently raised 100M from VC I wasn’t aware of this, but I’m glad I am now. If that’s the case it’s time to look elsewhere or self host, VC funds and acquisitions are rarely good for users so I’ll assume the worst.

mbesto 4y ago
> VC funds and acquisitions are rarely good for users Where does this sentiment come from? I know very few applications I use that are VC funded or haven't gone through acquisitions...
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  The notion that all software must be provided free of charge and that making any profit is a cardinal sin.
  - wvenable 4y ago
    No, it's just that growth necessary to satisfy VC investment is unobtainable so solid products eat themselves attempting to achieve that growth.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Or it could be that the probability of having to do anti user things to earn an ROI for a $100M investment into a password manager is too high. $100M to develop a new processor or phone or vaccine or search engine or social network that delivers video to everyone worldwide is different than $100M to a password manager or other “simpler” project.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bsg75 4y ago
  It comes from a concern that VC backed investments demand a constant level of revenue growth, causing a company to add features or integrations that do not improve the base product. Organic growth is usually insufficient for stockholders, whose demands become a priority over stakeholders. If the user base does not increase at some rate determined by the investor, then growth comes in the form of advertising, partnerships, or similar that negatively affect the _product_ existing customers signed up for.

sph 4y ago

Ah for fuck's sake. It keeps happening to all the software I love. I guess I'll have to stop relying on convenience (I was a 1Password user years ago) and go 100% open-source. None of the libre offerings seem to be as convenient and polished, but at least they're not into some VC's pocket ready to squeeze as much profit as possible out of my paid membership. What's a good OSS alternative that works with iOS and Linux? Anything that's audited? (perhaps that's asking for too much)

attentive 4y ago
keypassxc
lumb63 4y ago
I use KeePass. It’s up to you to sync passwords and they’re stored locally. I see those as features despite that they’re inconvenient.
- qwerpy 4y ago
  I use cloud storage to store the kdbx file and sync it across a PC and my phone. It’s pretty awesome 99% of the time and just works. Once in a while you get a merge conflict and it’s not so good.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    Even merge conflicts have been a lot better for me in recent years. My only worry with KeePass is that I have to rely on potentially sketchy client applications but I'm also fortunate enough to have the skills to make my own if I really felt the need. It's one of the few "not-my-solution" pieces of software which continually gives me a sense of data ownership.
  - lumb63 4y ago
    I run an SSH server on my laptop and SFTP it to my phone via Strongbox when I’m local.
- noirscape 4y ago

sngz 4y ago

was considering switching, guess I'll stick to keepass

shp0ngle 4y ago

Ugh. I JUST migrated to Bitwarden. VCs ruin everything.

hardwaresofton 4y ago
If you want to switch to vaultwarden but don’t want to host it I’m working on something for that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34434877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34434877 I’m not convinced Bitwarden will go down the drain quite so quickly…