6 ms·
DensePose from WiFi
- bemmu 4y agoWhen we have near-human level deep learning models for things humans can do, what does this level of performance look like when applied to things we can’t do at all? This is a nice example of this.
- transpute 4y agoIEEE 802.11bf aims to standardize through-wall motion sensing for Wi-Fi 7 in 2024, https://www.originwirelessai.com/insights/what-is-the-802-11bf-wifi-sensing-project-a-peek-inside-setting-the-standard/ https://www.originwirelessai.com/insights/what-is-the-802-11... & https://www.originwirelessai.com/insights/origins-next-chapter-qa-with-ray-liu-and-spencer-maid/ https://www.originwirelessai.com/insights/origins-next-chapt.... It can be done today with custom firmware on low-cost WiFi devices. Over the past decade, hundreds of Wi-Fi sensing papers have been published, for different categories of motion. > capture tiny, vital movements of human breathing, even when people are not in the line-of-sight of a device ... whole home coverage to detect falls, breathing rates, abnormal behaviors ... Internet Service Providers (ISPs), Security, Health & Wellness, Automotive, and IoT The images in the DensePose paper are helpful: https://twitter.com/aibreakfast/status/1613550599144091650 https://twitter.com/aibreakfast/status/1613550599144091650 Prior HN threads on Wi-Fi 7 Sensing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33758434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33758434 Counter-measures: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27121918#27133079 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27121918#27133079
- pontifier 4y agoSign me up for the security system. This seems like a total game changer if it's possible to do real human detection and tracking in a secure location.
- transpute 4y ago2012, https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-07/seeing-through-walls-wireless-router/ https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-07/seeing-thr... > The U.K. Ministry of Defence has funded a study to determine whether it could be used to scan buildings during urban warfare. With improvements, Woodbridge says, the device could become sensitive enough to pick up on subtle motions the ribcage makes during breathing, which would allow the radar to detect people who are standing or sitting still.
- actionfromafar 4y agoEnter some weird cyber-defense suit which masks bodily movements when you sit still...
- yencabulator 4y agoSounds more like a job for just plain old RF jamming.
- XorNot 4y agoI have a weirder utility for it: occupancy sensing in rooms. If it can detect breathing of humans reliably, then it solves a huge problem in having home automation with automatic lighting - particularly in bathrooms. I've never had a decent bathroom occupancy sensor (they all end up wanting to detect fairly large motions) - the obvious solution is AI with a camera but for obvious reasons no, but if a couple of base stations can localize person positions to rooms in the house (and provide other services) then that kind of solves the whole issue!
- hooverd 4y ago"Please drink verification can to continue."
- nine_k 4y agoIs there anything wrong with mechanical switches, beside the apparent (though negligible for me) improvement in comfort?
- XorNot 4y agoI grew up with a father who was obsessed with the idea that we were wasting electricity by accidentally leaving the lights on sometimes. As a result he's spent probably thousands in attempted energy saving devices which have all not worked and definitely would never save enough compared to the cost of them. Which is why I think about these things despite this seemingly obvious solution. And the fact that the guest bathroom when I visit his house still has no light switch but does have a cheap motion sensor which is annoying as hell.
- eightysixfour 4y agoThere are a number of mmWave occupancy sensors that are more than capable of this. The biggest issue is the delay introduced in most smart home contexts by Zigbee and the hubs. Matter/Thread should help here. Existing options: https://smarthomescene.com/reviews/best-mmwave-human-presence-sensor-comparison/ https://smarthomescene.com/reviews/best-mmwave-human-presenc... The Aqara FP2 should be out in Q2 with Matter support and be a nice upgrade. It can segment a room into multiple spaces and detect 5 people.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- sitkack 4y agoTake a look at Figure 10, mind blowing. This tech will make it into every device with an RF receiver. Your TV, phone, router, computer, tablet, fridge, lightbulb will know your pulse and waste size at all locations in your house.
- transpute 4y agoPlus keyboard-entered passwords, thanks to mmWave radar being added to the Wi-Fi spec, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30172647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30172647
- nathancahill 4y agoI think you meant waist size, but the typo is even more privacy invasive.
- sitkack 4y agoMy bad, I meant waste volume.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- benob 4y agoFrom the abstract: "This paves the way for low-cost, broadly accessible, and privacy-preserving algorithms for human sensing." How much do we have to wait for the follow up paper: "Human identification through wifi signals" and then the patent for "Wifi as an identity tracking source for advertisement in public spaces" Technology advances make me sad those days...
- skibidibipiti 4y agoCmon, use your imagination, It’s worse than that. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6513191/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6513191/
- transpute 4y ago> How much do we have to wait for the follow up paper Early work from ~2010, https://dhalperi.github.io/linux-80211n-csitool/ https://dhalperi.github.io/linux-80211n-csitool/ & https://groups.csail.mit.edu/netmit/sFFT/soda_paper.pdf https://groups.csail.mit.edu/netmit/sFFT/soda_paper.pdf & https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/103715 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/103715 1000+ papers, add your surveillance keyword and 'Search within citing articles': https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=4354757827101869878 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=4354757827101869878 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Katabi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Katabi > In 2012, her work on Sparse Fourier Transforms was chosen as one of the top 10 breakthroughs of the year by Technology Review ... In 2014, on the celebration of Project Mac's 50th anniversary, her work on X-ray vision was chosen as one of the "50 ways that MIT has transformed computer science." Sample paper topic keywords, http://web.archive.org/web/20210620035520/http://dhalperi.github.io/linux-80211n-csitool/ http://web.archive.org/web/20210620035520/http://dhalperi.gi... human-to-human interaction recognition device-free human activity recognition occupant activity recognition in smart offices emotion sensing via wireless channel data CSI learning for gait biometric sensing sleep monitoring from afar human breath status via commodity wifi device-free crowd sensing
- sitkack 4y agoMeasuring sleep position with wireless signals https://people.csail.mit.edu/scyue/projects/bodycompass/ https://people.csail.mit.edu/scyue/projects/bodycompass/
- bick_nyers 4y agoAbsolutely incredible, the applications of machine learning never cease to amaze me. Will be an absolute boon for VR.
- jayd16 4y ago>Will be an absolute boon for VR. Ehhh... The latency would need to get lower than camera based systems but it might be useful to some degree.
- jimmySixDOF 4y agoInteresting. Full Body Tracking is one of the few places I can see this getting real end user traction considering how hard it is to do now but a lot of work goes into the pose estimation side and will need to be integrated to the AP. A Modified Microsoft Kinect or Intel Realsense built into their own SoC then it's APIs out to the VR Headset. And at that point it's not just an Access Point anymore.
- carbocation 4y ago> This paves the way for low-cost, broadly accessible, and privacy-preserving algorithms for human sensing. Just because this surveillance tech avoids photons with energies accessible to human photoreceptors doesn’t mean it preserves privacy.
- fulafel 4y agoWhat kind of measures for privacy can be implemented for this? Technically or regulation wise.
- transpute 4y agoTechnical defenses are either cat & mouse CSI electronic warfare or shielding the walls+floor+roof+windows of some rooms (e.g. research labs in business, industrial systems, WFH offices, bedrooms) with materials like aluminum radiant barrier, RF window film or expensive drywall (e.g. QuietRock) designed for RF shielding of SCIFs. Another defense, impractical for most people, is for their house/office to be physically protected by a tall fence that is far enough away from the building to exceed radio range, along with sensors at the fence to detect someone attempting to broadcast into the property. This could be combined with shielding to reduce the necessary fence-building gap. Regulatory responses: some countries could restrict this technology to high-frequency 60Ghz mmWave which doesn't easily pass through walls. That would at least reduce the social issue of X-ray vision (via 2.4Ghz WiFi) through the exterior walls of existing homes and businesses. One of the 802.11bf papers proposed an opt-out mechanism where human biometrics could be registered into a giant database and you could ask WiFi devices to unsee some humans. Good luck with that. Another regulatory response could be to delay approval of Wi-Fi 7 and shipment of Wi-Fi Sensing devices until the WiFi industry pays to upgrade all existing houses with RF shielding, i.e. never. Maybe it would be sufficient to wait until the homes of celebrities and politicians were RF shielded? Let's not forget IP-sensitive and financial business offices with people typing on keyboards. And using combination locks. And...
- nine_k 4y agoI wonder how much shielding is actually needed. 2.4 GHz = 12.5 cm wave. A conductive grid with approximately 6cm (or 2") step should prevent the waves from getting inside. Not a very expensive thing to add even to drywall panels. Can also be relatively easily added into fabrics, to make RF-reflective curtains.
- orbital-decay 4y agoSome active device equivalent to a mouse jiggler, retransmitting the signal and shifting the phase just enough to create the illusion of constant movement.
- thom 4y agoThe side-channel attacks are coming from inside the house.
- GordonS 4y agoThis could be a boon for thieves, allowing them to scan for empty houses at night, so they know which ones can be more safely targeted.
- jerpint 4y agoIt can also serve as a replacement for IR sensors in homes and keep thieves at bay
- kachnuv_ocasek 4y agoWho do you think will be faster in adopting the technology—burglars or homeowners?
- throw10920 4y agoMoreover, thieves are likely to use custom-built RF occupancy detection devices, while the vast majority of homeowners will buy an off-the-shelf product that will either sell their data to advertisers (a la "smart" televisions), require a subscription service, or both.
- lowbloodsugar 4y agoWhy does this sound like exposition from a dystopian Neal Asher trilogy?
- zachthewf 4y agoInteresting. Could be valuable for fall detection without requiring a smart watch.
- gene-h 4y agoIt doesn't work well if the layout of wifi transceivers it was trained on changes