10 ms·

I had the (mis?)fortune of receiving a hand-me-down ThinkPad 10 or so years ago. Now I simply can't use a laptop for an extended period of time without a trackp

• ghaff 4y ago
  I used to care a lot more. I simply couldn't use a trackpad at first and I wasn't even thrilled with a big Alienware Windows laptop I got a number of years back. I had to have a trackpoint on a laptop. But trackpads on Macs and Chromebooks became fine for me and I didn't really care after some point. Don't even use a mouse when I'm using a laptop basically as a desktop.
• aconbere 4y ago
  For me this has nothing to do with wear on the nub itself. I’ve used a few trackpoints and it always ends with pain in my index fingers
• neilv 4y ago
  If anyone is getting typing/mousing soreness--- 1. Stop. Don't type/mouse through pain, or you could be causing permanent damage. Figure out what the problem is, maybe with the help or a doctor and/or workstation ergonomics expert. 2. If TrackPoint is involved, that's possible, but I find it's mostly a win, but the win might depend on how one uses it. I use little force, and have done it all day for 20 years, without problem. The sensitivity is adjustable. Which cap you put on it makes a big difference. There are 5+ different caps. I like the soft concave top one best. With some of the other styles of cap, especially early on (like the hard sandpaper one, and the slick Toshiba(?) one), I found I was pressing much harder, just to get a grip on it.
  • trmsw 4y ago
    Upping the sensitivity and switching to the soft rim cap makes a huge difference. We have ThinkPads at work and I'm not surprised most of my colleagues don't like the Trackpoint with its default cap and settings; Lenovo aren't doing it and favours.
  • photonbeam 4y ago
    Do they sell the different caps as a set?
    • flobosg 4y ago
      Yes. I got a set of three caps (convex, concave, and dome) from eBay a few years ago.
      • naikrovek 4y ago
        if I could buy the classic dome ones in bulk, the ones that are spikey, not bumpy, I'd be a happy camper.
        • joecool1029 4y ago
          If you don't mind it being a little pricey there's a single purpose site that sells what you want, no knockoffs: http://www.trackcap.com/ http://www.trackcap.com/
          • naikrovek 4y ago
            yeah I saw that. $2.49 each in quantities of 100. more expensive if you buy fewer. that's... a lot.
    • neilv 4y ago
      I've bought sampler sets before. But they can be had inexpensively: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=trackpoint%20caps https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=trackpoint%20caps https://www.amazon.com/s?k=trackpoint+caps https://www.amazon.com/s?k=trackpoint+caps
• geoka9 4y ago
  > I always feel like my options for newer laptops are limited because of this, forever tied to Lenovo. I'm now becoming convinced that pairing a good external Trackpoint keyboard with a 2-in-1 laptop will be the way to go if you don't want to be tied to Lenovo.
  • garciansmith 4y ago
    But then I'd have to cart around an extra keyboard! Plus I use my laptop far too often in places where it'd be uncomfortable to do so: namely me sitting somewhere with the computer on my lap.
    • gymbeaux 4y ago
      Awful from an ergonomics perspective
• alwayslikethis 4y ago
  What made me give up the TrackPoint was.. a new Thinkpad. It has simply gotten so difficult to use with the T460s, possibly due to the high screen resolution (I had the 2560x1440 variant). Increasing the sensitivity did not feel right, and it sometimes have too much inertia (pointer keeps moving after I release the nipple mouse). I hurt my fingers trying to use it at a low sensitivity. Eventually I just gave up and switched to the touchpad for most use cases. More recently, I got another Thinkpad with a lower resolution, and it seems to be much better, but I'm no longer that accustomed to using it anymore. Maybe I should consider trying it again.
  • garciansmith 4y ago
    I like them even on newer ThinkPads just as much, and I've used them on an X1 Carbon with a 4K screen (I do use Linux exclusively, so maybe it's different on Windows). One thing I have noticed is that as the trackpads have gotten bigger, hitting it with your palm becomes much easier, despite any software protections against that. I generally disable the touchpad on newer models, something I never have to do on my old trusty T420s.
    • nayuki 4y ago
      I agree with the grandparent and disagree with the parent. My X220's Synaptics TrackPoint is very responsive and natural, and I can get my work done (though the TrackPad is poor). My X1 Carbon Gen 7's ELAN TrackPoint randomly increases and decreases in sensitivity, I can't get used to it, and I end up using the TrackPad instead (which is decent but I still prefer a good TrackPoint).
      • mhb 4y ago
        I also agree. The whole reason a got an X1 Carbon was that I figured Lenovo couldn't screw up the trackpoint or keyboard too much. I was wrong. The trackpoint frequently meanders off on its merry way and the keyboard is unimpressive and now has some keys which don't work. Even though the screen and sound are a big step up, I'm back on the X220. Naturally, like every device nowadays, they've traded thickness for function so it is also impressively thin. If I enjoyed using the keyboard, I would also be pleased with the battery life.
• tsgagnon 4y ago
  Yup, I also struggle to bring myself to even look at any laptop that isn't a Thinkpad with a trackpoint. I tried a different laptop a few years ago and returned it after a week because it just felt wrong to rely on a trackpad when I couldn't use a mouse.
  • runesofdoom 4y ago
    I use an X220 for everyday computing, with the trackpad disabled. Before that, I used a Fujistu Lifebook P1120, which also had a trackpoint (and a touchscreen, and no trackpad). I can't use other laptops. If I can't keep using Thinkpads or the equivalent, I'll cobble something together and abandon the laptop form factor entirely.
    • webnrrd2k 4y ago
      Have you see /r/thinkpad ? Also, there are projects to refit some older thinkpads with a new motherboard and modern cpu.
• bitwize 4y ago
  Sounds like what you need is God's own chosen pointing device -- an Apple trackpad.
  • garciansmith 4y ago
    And then be stuck in the same situation: tied to one company, albeit a different one? But no, I still prefer the trackpoint: any trackpad, no matter how godly, still involves moving my hand from the keyboard down, back and forth, back and forth. Nothing is speedier than to move the mouse pointer around with a trackpoint. And I would grant for certain applications a trackpad is better, like image editing where your hand is on the trackpad most of the time. But for anything involving heavy keyboard use, a trackpoint can't be beat.
  • jaxn 4y ago
    I would easily pay 20% more for a MacBook with a TrackPoint.
    • mcbuilder 4y ago
      Yeah, easily $1k more if I could have that and perfect Linux support.
    • chr 4y ago
      You may well be aware that there is an external keyboard from Lenovo that mimics the Thinkpad keyboard: "ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard II" Then there are mechanic keyboards with trackpoints from Tex in Taiwan: https://tex.com.tw/collections/all https://tex.com.tw/collections/all
      • jaxn 4y ago
        I have a Tex Shinobi and the Lenovo trackpoint keyboard. The Tex is on my Linux workstation at the office. When I had a Thinkpad and used the Trackpoint keyboard with my workstation, I had the same muscle memory for both. Bought a MacBook for battery life.
  • innocenat 4y ago
• Melatonic 4y ago
  Some HP business laptops also have a trackpoint
  • sebazzz 4y ago
    As did my Dell Latitude E6520. I'm not sure modern Dell still have it, but back then it worked great!
• worthless-trash 4y ago
  There is minor variance required in the force, but I think that the people who believe it required force either had really weak fingers or did not understand you dont 'mash' it like a track pad.
• dimatura 4y ago
  I'm in the same boat, but using trackpoint + vim shortcuts for most things (including window manager, browser, and of course, vim). Works really great for day-to-day coding and browsing. If I have to do something that's easier with a lot of pointing (like making diagrams on inkscape) then I just use an actual mouse.
• cookiengineer 4y ago
  I had a lot of problems with the pain in the arm strings as you mentioned. At some point I switched to slim keyboards, and to a trackball mouse. I also tried to use a magic trackpad in between but that made it worse. Nowadays I am using the Thinkpad USB keyboard combined with a CSL vertical mouse and I don't have any string injuries anymore. I mainly chose the keyboard because it is actually one of like 3 that doesn't have batteries and doesn't have a numpad that I don't use anyways. As a mousepad I am using an aluminium/teflon mousepad I have for like 20 years now. It is superflat and doesn't make my arms stick to it while moving. As to your mouse movements: the thinkpad usb keyboard has an additional middle mouse key, which does exactly that. It's just so comfortable to use while browsing. For lots of mouse movements, like in CAD tools or other mouse-heavy environments I still stick to using my vertical mouse though.
• 7speter 4y ago
  I disable the trackpad in the bios I’m so addicted. I would go to meetups in the before time and people would try use my computer and I’d have to tell them, oh yeah the trackpad is disabled… from the bios. Also there have been times (I guess long ago) when id rub into someone with a computer with a nipple (did toshiba used to have these? Guess they didn’t call then trackpoints?) and start poking at it, and the person would say, “yeah this piece of junk has one of those” and I’d say “what? These are awesome!” Don’t get me started on how deadly I was with a shotgun in CounterStrike on one of these in college
  • philjohn 4y ago
    Toshiba did indeed used to have them. My first laptop back in the early 90's was a Toshiba with a trackpoint.
    • usrusr 4y ago
      Toshiba laptops, now branded Dynabook and owned by Sharp/Foxconn, still have them on some models. If you want 32gb noticeably below 1000g they are literally the only option on the market (if you can find them, that configuring seems to be virtually unavailable). Unfortunately their trackpoints come without that middle mouse button, which I liked to set to scrolling by trackpoint on my Dells. (haven't used a laptop without trackpoint in ages but never really converted for regular pointing)
• gjvc 4y ago
  A few people here have noted problems with the amount of force needed to use the trackpoint If that is the case, get a tighter-fitting and harder top for it. The tiniest bit of play or flex is wasted force. The actual pointing stick is remarkably sensitive.
• Mikeb85 4y ago
  > A few people here have noted problems with the amount of force needed to use the trackpoint, but I wonder if that's a problem of either settings or wear since I barely need to nudge mine to do everything I want it to do. IMO which rubber nub you use is huge as well. I'm partial to the wide and concave nub, as you can simply pressure the edge and the mouse moves.
• automatic6131 4y ago
  >I've now even use a modifier key to make home row keys become arrows/home/end/PgUp/PgDn I do this as well. It's one of the best things I ever did. It does make it awkward when I use someone elses computer now though.
• nix23 4y ago
  Same, i love track-point on laptops..i don't use the pad at all. For desktop's i use mostly trackballs like M575...so much less stress for shoulders and hand, and perfectly usable in the bed or well everywhere.
• philjohn 4y ago
  I was the same - had ThinkPads for years after my first laptop (a Toshiba) in the early 90's had a trackpoint. The only thing that has come close to being good enough are apple trackpads. Yes, still have to remove fingers from home row, but the control is as good.
• MSFT_Edging 4y ago
  Check out the Tex Shinobi to bring this addiction over to desktop. Its one guy making these keyboards, a lot of love go into them. I absolutely love mine.
• coldpie 4y ago
  I've only ever bought one laptop in my life, a 2007 Lenovo Thinkpad right after I graduated high school. I ordered it with a touchpoint and, critically, no trackpad at all. It was glorious. Physical mouse buttons immediately under the spacebar instead of five miles away. No touchpad to accidentally brush against. No sharp trackpad edges to rub against your palm. Physical mouse buttons instead of these godawful buttonless trackpads that are ubiquitous now. My god. Just leagues and leagues better than anything manufactured today. I've considered buying a new laptop a few times, but the trackpad is mandatory today, so I just throw up my hands and stick with my desktop & phone.
• NikolaNovak 4y ago
  Re the force - it's the settings 93.2%, and the nub preference 6.8%. Different height shape and grip of different nubs work for different people. Otherwise agreed. I find track pads Incredibly wasteful - we've continually canibalizing the keyboard for sake of larger track pad. I bit the bullet and splurged on t25 (with traditional keyboard including home row)about 5 years ago,and it remains my daily driver. Especially the smaller you go, including what used to be net books (12" and smaller) - track point is exactly as effective at all scales, whereas track pad and keyboard compromises become worse and worse. P.s. For some reason even though I'm a rightey,I use track point with my left hand which lets me switch it up a bit and makes for less of a stretch. Using track point for me is effective efficient and completely automatic. Track pads, still a struggle, whether I'm using it myself or watching somebody else scroll scroll scroll :-/