4 ms·

(bulletin co-author) Yeah that bit could have been spelled out more. It's a random 64-bit int.

by dave_universetf 4y ago

bhawks 4y ago
What about the insider risk prospective? A random int64 isn't that hard to guess if you can easily look at a database.
- tptacek 4y ago
  If you're looking at a database, you're not guessing. Otherwise: a random int64 is in fact difficult to guess.
  - bhawks 4y ago
    Exactly - which is why I was asking what is the nature of the insider threat risk if someone did not have to guess. In a prod deployment who has the rights to see this info without raising too many flags?
    - tptacek 4y ago
      The database that gives you all the random 64 bit IDs for devices: that's another vulnerability.
tsujamin 4y ago
(reporter) I spent _a long time_ trying to derive how this value was generated :’)
- fragmede 4y ago
  Did you spend any time trying to see if you could steal the values from somewhere else? Given the other breaks in Tailscale, I'd bet there's an info leak somewhere. Deriving it from first principles is hard. Stealing it from somewhere should be easier.
  - tsujamin 4y ago
    I had a good look for usable info leaks, some GitHub dorking for how the IDs might’ve been generated, but came up naught in the end
j16sdiz 4y ago
I guess this could be mitigated by not trusting the coordination server? https://tailscale.com/blog/tailnet-lock/ https://tailscale.com/blog/tailnet-lock/
- d4l3k 4y ago
  I just tried to set this up and couldn't. Seems like it's invite only with a waitlist :/
  - dave_universetf 4y ago
    Yeah, we're adding people slowly because decentralized authorities like the one that tailnet lock implements can have nasty failure modes, e.g. some bug that prevents any new addition to the tailnet at all and forces manual recovery on each of your devices separately. So, we're putting miles on it with a little care, and making sure folks who sign up are aware of the current limitations and risks.
    - ikiris 4y ago
      Oh is that all the problem is? Anyone with automated deployments and self provisioning should be fine with that risk. I thought it was a lot more premature than this.
      - rollcat 4y ago
        Good ops is more than automated deployments. Complex systems have complex failure modes.
  - tailscaletom 4y ago
    If you're excited about tailnet lock and want to get on the alpha sooner rather than later, feel free to drop me an email. As Dave mentioned we are slowly crunching through the waitlist to get some miles in, but I'm also happy to take on enthusiastic testers ahead of that! You can email me at tom@ (tailscale dot com)

(bulletin co-author) Yeah that bit could have been spelled out more. It's a random 64-bit int.

bhawks 4y ago

What about the insider risk prospective? A random int64 isn't that hard to guess if you can easily look at a database.

tptacek 4y ago
If you're looking at a database, you're not guessing. Otherwise: a random int64 is in fact difficult to guess.
- bhawks 4y ago
  Exactly - which is why I was asking what is the nature of the insider threat risk if someone did not have to guess. In a prod deployment who has the rights to see this info without raising too many flags?
  - tptacek 4y ago
    The database that gives you all the random 64 bit IDs for devices: that's another vulnerability.

tsujamin 4y ago

(reporter) I spent _a long time_ trying to derive how this value was generated :’)

fragmede 4y ago
Did you spend any time trying to see if you could steal the values from somewhere else? Given the other breaks in Tailscale, I'd bet there's an info leak somewhere. Deriving it from first principles is hard. Stealing it from somewhere should be easier.
- tsujamin 4y ago
  I had a good look for usable info leaks, some GitHub dorking for how the IDs might’ve been generated, but came up naught in the end

j16sdiz 4y ago

I guess this could be mitigated by not trusting the coordination server? https://tailscale.com/blog/tailnet-lock/ https://tailscale.com/blog/tailnet-lock/

d4l3k 4y ago
I just tried to set this up and couldn't. Seems like it's invite only with a waitlist :/
- dave_universetf 4y ago
  Yeah, we're adding people slowly because decentralized authorities like the one that tailnet lock implements can have nasty failure modes, e.g. some bug that prevents any new addition to the tailnet at all and forces manual recovery on each of your devices separately. So, we're putting miles on it with a little care, and making sure folks who sign up are aware of the current limitations and risks.
  - ikiris 4y ago
    Oh is that all the problem is? Anyone with automated deployments and self provisioning should be fine with that risk. I thought it was a lot more premature than this.
    - rollcat 4y ago
      Good ops is more than automated deployments. Complex systems have complex failure modes.
- tailscaletom 4y ago
  If you're excited about tailnet lock and want to get on the alpha sooner rather than later, feel free to drop me an email. As Dave mentioned we are slowly crunching through the waitlist to get some miles in, but I'm also happy to take on enthusiastic testers ahead of that! You can email me at tom@ (tailscale dot com)