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Republicans to pass bill in House to end telework for federal employees
- Kareem71 4y agoWhats the incentive for anyone to propose this?
- zmk5 4y agoBased on the name of the bill it seems it's supposed to target "unproductive" workers.
- downrightmike 4y agoSo republican politicians?
- dymk 4y agoAmusing you're getting downvoted for this, it's the GOP that just took the longest time in over a hundred years to elect a speaker of the house.
- ender341341 4y agoMostly to appeal to blue-collar people by calling federal employees/office workers lazy and saying they aren't doing work cause they're working from home.
- AlexandrB 4y agoI think the GOP hates government employees and wants most of them to "get a real job". Plus, as the party that looks to the past for answers, this seems like a pretty natural thing for them to do.
- coev 4y agoThis also panders to the executive/manager types that value butt-in-seat time over actual work getting done
- TylerE 4y ago[flagged]
- factsarelolz 4y agoilbs?
- red-iron-pine 4y agoDid you read the article? They allude to reasons. FedGov owns a lot of space in DC and their presence drives a lot of the city's economy, like staffers stopping at Starbucks, etc. The DC Mayor has been asking for many buildings back to be repurposed for housing or other uses, too. And there is the perception that remote workers aren't working that hard, so somehow this is the fiscally responsible thing, despite the fact that ditching a lot of overheads could save the gub'mnt tons of money. It's not like the GOP thought they worked that hard to begin with... Lastly there is the "wag the dog" idea that this generates clicks and controversy while other bills, like those funding the IRS, or those that would improve minimum wage limits, languish quietly. Also, what's the average age in congress? To paraphrase a 60 year old I know, "this sounds like more Boomer Management".
- JustSomeNobody 4y agoWho does it benefit? Gas and Oil. Landlords. Who does it hurt (because cruelty is the point)? Workers.
- anigbrowl 4y agoPolitical capital, both in the form of publicity and donations.
- dsfyu404ed 4y agoThey're trying to un-do anything pandemic related and they're taking a potshot at government workers while they're at it.
- standardUser 4y agoThe GOP is pandering to their increasingly working-class base that generally has limited options to work from home and view it as an urban elitist phenomenon.
- cozzyd 4y agoThe GOP is anti anything that might be construed as a COVID-19 mitigation measure.
- Kon-Peki 4y ago> Whats the incentive for anyone to propose this? It's just politicians doing politics. Democrats and Republicans both. This Congressional session is two weeks old, and there have already been 368 bills introduced in the House. Find your representative and all the junk they're already cosponsoring: https://www.congress.gov/sponsors-cosponsors/118th-congress/representatives/ALL https://www.congress.gov/sponsors-cosponsors/118th-congress/...
- AlexandrB 4y ago> Stopping Home Office Work’s Unproductive Problems (SHOW UP) Someone should pass a bill banning these cutesy bill names. Do it like Canada and just number the damn things.
- fatnoah 4y agoI can't stand these as well.
- harimau777 4y agoI wonder if the Supreme Court has ever used one of these dumb names when attempting to determine the "original intention" of a law. For example, it seems like the name of Florida's "Stop WOKE Act" demonstrates that the law's purpose is to suppress free speech rather than to "protect the children".
- jstarfish 4y agoNo, they should stay the way they are. The cutesy names always betray the real intent behind the legislation. Canada makes it harder to see through the bullshit.
- AlexandrB 4y agoSometimes. Other times the cutesy name is used to conceal the intent, like the PATRIOT act.
- reb 4y agoMmm, but a signal is a signal, even if it's a duplicitous one.
- jstarfish 4y agoThat was the point I was trying to make-- whatever the name is, assume the intent is the opposite because it's political suicide to be on record decrying the ENDRACISM or CAREBEAR acts. It's statecraft, and obvious to anybody with a brain. Naming everything "HB-4739-2B" would make the process more opaque, so only those directly involved have any clue what's going on.
- ender341341 4y agounless I'm missing something this would have to pass the senate too right? is that actually likely (I can't find much actual info on support for this).
- dekhn 4y agopass the senate and be signed by the president (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0)
- acomjean 4y agoNo, it likely won't pass the senate. And get the president to not veto it should it pass the senate. These kinds of bills often get passed just to make a point. Even when they have little chance of passing. Though control of the government changes all the time so its usefull to keep an eye of whats coming. Though the "repeal the afordable care act" came close to getting passed after the senate switched.
- lambdasquirrel 4y agoAhh... politics... the fine art of scoring points without actually ever accomplishing anything...
- cmh89 4y agoThe United States governmental structural encourages obstruction. If your whole platform is 'government bad', its incredibly easy to keep the government from functioning. I don't think the constitutions writers really planned for a mainstream political party becoming anti-democracy and the basic assumption was that people elected to the government would all desire a high-functioning government while disagreeing about what that government should do.
- cmrdporcupine 4y agoIt is difficult to watch from a distance, in a country with a Westminster parliamentary system. (Which has its own problems, to be sure).
- syzarian 4y agoRepublicans never seem to pass up an opportunity to shit on employees. I can’t think of a single piece of legislation they’ve supported in the past 20 years to advance the lives/working conditions of workers.
- lambdasquirrel 4y agoWe're getting into U.S. politics here, but it's kind of a meme... https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2233325-the-simpsons https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2233325-the-simpsons
- syzarian 4y agoI have not seen that one. It’s funny. Thanks for sharing it!
- gumby 4y agoThat is funny though under Biden the dems did manage to pass some significant bills in 2022. But that's worth noticing only because the meme is so on point.
- wilg 4y agoI'm interested in why the signs say "inside"
- antipurist 4y agoThose conventions are held indoors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMRmuyy9f_w&t=30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMRmuyy9f_w&t=30s
- wilg 4y agoYeah, but you don't typically need to explain that on a sign.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- AdmiralAsshat 4y agoIt has zero chance of passing the Senate or getting signed into law. All it does is reinforce the perception that Republicans have nothing but contempt for the American worker. The federal government encourages remote working, and has for many years. Why? Because the D.C. Beltway is a congested clusterf#!$, and keeping people off the roads who don't absolutely need to be makes the commute better for everyone.
- Someone1234 4y agoYep. Better for car pollution, better for urban house prices, better for the cost of gas, better for families/kids, and better for rural communities (as people move out of cities, and take their relatively high salaries/disposable income with them). It does cause a short term shift as downtown support businesses (e.g. coffee shops, food, etc) have to move closer to where people live. But that is largely a return to what was normal 50 years ago anyway.
- bboygravity 4y agoBut what about the team leader/manager's egos though?
- jcpst 4y agoAh yes. That is the one benefit of the SHOW UP act- it does help the ego of managers.
- toss1 4y ago>> it does help the ego of managers. Fix:: ... the ego of BAD managers I read some studies from a decade before COVID about remote work, and the upshot was that teams under previously under-performing managers indeed performed worse, but the previously higher-performing teams performed better. Makes sense because bad managers manage to the signs of work, not work itself - it the but in the chair, not talking to someone else, etc., whereas the good managers manage to their targets and DGAF about the signs. Send the poor manager's teams remote, and now they not only lack direction on real goals, but now they're also free of being hounded. Send the top managers' teams remote, and they have the same guidance, but less time and effort squandered commuting, less office interruptions, etc, and they improve. Considering the studies and recent experience, I'd almost consider it a test of a manager's skill - if they cannot manage a remote team productively, they cannot manage a local one. (Of course meanwhile, the right wing has gone fully into abusive leader attitude over any facts, and so squanders Congress' time with nonsense like this. Ugh) (Edit: typo)
- akomtu 4y agoThe two parties are like a bad and a good cop: they work in tandem to trim your rights, but because they alternate, use different tactics and pretend to disagree with each other, you get the impression that they are in opposition.
- pwinnski 4y agoThis is absolute nonsense. While neither party has a completely clean record, one is profoundly, dramatically, egregiously worse than the other when it comes to our rights. One party usually protects our rights, but occasionally does stupid things like join the other party post-9/11 in making life worse for all of us. The other party celebrates their new ability to pass completely meaningless bills like this one to demonstrate how much they hate worker rights, and that is par for the course. 9/11 wasn't an exception for them, the whittling away of our rights is the entire point. Neither is perfect, but don't pretend for a moment they are the same.
- anigbrowl 4y agoIt would be cool to follow through with evidence for this popular but overly simplistic claim.
- p0pcult 4y ago"Got any evidence? ... Be a lot cooler if you did."
- mrguyorama 4y agoBecause if you openly state that "both sides bad" is a strictly conservative claim, you get downvoted and flagged. But no, HN is soooo liberal.
- fatnoah 4y agoThe bill itself is interesting. It opens with the absurd 30 day requirement, but then has some sensible language about (among other things) a) understanding the impact of remote work on cost and mission and b) defines criteria for the expansion of remote work, including better service to the mission, reducing cost , increased dispersion of workers throughout the country, etc. That said, pulling the emergency brake on remote work before doing any studying makes no sense to me.
- hinata08 4y agothey have also advocated for neoliberalism for decades (especially on the job market), only to want to ban a perk that other companies offer. this is what makes no sense, when you try to believe what they say.
- jdlyga 4y agoMight as well pass a free pony for everyone bill. It has no chance of passing the senate.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y agoIsn't this more of a "take away everyone's pony" bill, though?
- avgDev 4y agoAnother reason not to work for the government. Even if it doesn't pass, just considering a bill like this is odd. I would hate to be at a mercy of politicians when private sector pays better. When I was doing my CS degree, I went to a job fair for the feds. During a presentation they were making a student asked, "are you still drug testing programmers?", instant chuckles all around. The presenter said they are pretty strict and you have to be drug free 12 months prior to submitting your application. I talked to multiple people who attended and the sentiment was "yeah, I'm not interested". It is so weird to me to give up talent because they smoke pot. I don't use any recreational drugs myself but so many of my college buds used variety of drugs. Some of them were exceptional team mates.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago>I would hate to be at a mercy of politicians.. Being in private industry won't shield you. Over the past decade or so non-legislative OSHA rulings have completely annihilated business who manufactures small cranes to the favor of anyone who manufactures hydraulic equivalents. Remember all those weird conversion van/truck things, aftermarket sleepers and other "not quite a full fledged semi truck sleeper" stuff that was it's whole little industry until the 90s? DOT rule re-interpretation of a rule related to off-duty time killed all that. EPA's, DEA's and ATF's capriciousness is well known...
- dguest 4y agoI'm not sure I have any idea what you're talking about, and I remember the 90s. Do you have a more concrete example, e.g. a picture of these things?
- dsfyu404ed 4y agohttps://cdn1.mecum.com/auctions/ch1015/ch1015-223836/images/ch1015-223836_2@2x.jpg https://cdn1.mecum.com/auctions/ch1015/ch1015-223836/images/... https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/ce/ba/6eceba50ee4286808fa1aee1b294bfd7.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/ce/ba/6eceba50ee4286808fa1... https://i.redd.it/zgj5g0d0pb221.jpg https://i.redd.it/zgj5g0d0pb221.jpg They were the economically obvious solution for uses where a single day trip is beyond the limit of one day's worth of DOT working hours, you don't have enough cargo to justify running semi trucks and you're doing it often enough that dicking around finding motels is a waste of time and money. If you got "fresh maine seafood" in NYC in the 80s it was probably delivered by a 20ft light box truck with those sort of sleeping quarters. All that went away after the DOT decided that sleeping in anything other than a purpose built sleeping quarters could still satisfy the off duty requirements (I forget the exact verbiage). IMO that's how it always should have been, still everyone who made their bucks building those things, and a heck of a lot of motels that catered to commercial drivers, got screwed overnight.
- JustSomeNobody 4y agoComing from the party of pro gas and oil, I would expect nothing less.
- vuln 4y agoWe're all going to be driving electric soon. Gas and oil are the past.
- mullingitover 4y agoA lot of federal agencies would melt down if they halted remote work. The campuses are already underprovisioned for existing staff, half the time workers show up they can't even find a parking space, and this is with large numbers of them working remotely. This reminds me of the big show the GOP made of halting hiring for federal employees a few years back. In reality, it made zero difference in federal staffing levels, it merely moved the headcount to contractors which cost taxpayers dramatically more in payroll expenses.
- snarf21 4y agoI'm not sure that was an unintended consequences. More money for the contractor companies.
- mrguyorama 4y agoThe GOP intention is to make as much government work done by contractors as possible, because it allows more public funds to go directly to crony capitalists, makes the government more expensive, and makes the government worse at it's job. These are all goals of the current republican party.
- the_cat_kittles 4y agothe party of shitty managers who only feel good when their employees are forced to bow to their pointless wishes in person
- Finnucane 4y agoMaybe we should require that Congresspersons spend five days a week in their offices, doing work and not spending it on fundraising.
- balderdash 4y agoFirst they’d have to stop exempting themselves from all the other labor laws they pass for everyone else…
- favorited 4y agoThere is value in members of Congress spending a significant amount of time in their districts, among their constituents. I'm not suggesting that they're all using that time effectively, but there exists a rational reason why they shouldn't work normal office hours in DC.
- Finnucane 4y agoBut they have offices in those districts they can work at. I didn't say it had to be in DC.
- shmerl 4y agoYeah, they must like increasing profits for car manufacturers forcing people to drive, while not improving public transport.
- balderdash 4y agoI don’t think ending telework is the solution, and that this mostly political posturing, but if’ve interacted with federal/municipal agencies in the past year, it’s crystal clear that these agencies basically took the previous two years off…
- factsarelolz 4y agoI agree 100%. The level of customer service has hit the floor. I'm not sure if it can go any lower.
- throwayyy479087 4y agoSome stuff has gotten a LOT better - doing community meetings online has been great for transparency. Some of it though, has gotten a LOT worse - I get the feeling that a lot of journalists haven't been outside for the last 2 years.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mrguyorama 4y agoLol, my girlfriend has been doing remote state work for 4 years now. Service levels have gone down because the same X amount of government workers were asked to take care of double the rate of applications and requests because everyone got fucked during the pandemic and needed basic help from the state. These people are asked to pick up ten "medium" (using Tshirt rules) tickets a day and have a hard, legally mandated cap of each ticket must be actioned by 40ish days. If you do software development, these people work way harder than you ever have, and get paid $40k a year for doing it.
- rsynnott 4y agoThis seems... peculiar. "We will do this completely pointless thing which no-one particularly wants, and then the Senate will block us anyway! Somehow, this will make the voters like us." Is there a big voting bloc who particularly appreciates this sort of time-wasting?
- factsarelolz 4y agoIt's called following through with campaign promises. I know it's scary. People voted for the people introducing this law, and those people want to see an attempt to get it passed. It's not the houses fault they don't control the senate. That's how things are supposed to work.
- mikem170 4y agoIt's disappointing that the house republicans don't have a better legislative agenda to spend their political capital on. So far they seem to be prioritizing bills that won't make it into law (like this bill, and the irs related bill), fixing problems that seem to only exist in the minds of their riled up base.
- mrguyorama 4y agoWell as of 2020, the republican party had no stated agenda apart from "get Trump re-elected". They also don't WANT to have an agenda, because 1) the US isn't actually as poor off as Fox News says so they don't really have to do anything if they want the US to keep being okay for well off white folk, and 2) because many of their constituents have bought so into "Gubermint bad" that they actively ask their politicians to do less work. Many constituents saw not electing a house speaker as a good thing, since it completely obstructed the government's ability to do almost anything.
- p0pcult 4y agoHow many Representatives mentioned this as a priority while campaigning, and what proportion of America's population do they represent?
- 4y ago
- happytiger 4y agoI know many federal agencies have been getting some great candidates due to their remote friendly work policies. I’ve heard it from several high level friends at different agencies. The biggest problem I’ve heard of is some of the old guard management who don’t get how to manage remote employees and are focused on the awareness of the activities of their employees instead of the agencies goals and outcomes — which is kind of what this bill represents. There are federal agencies that “get it” and are really embracing their new reality. I think “operation overlord” bills like this really could hurt Federal recruiting work, as witnessed by some of the comments already here on HN about government jobs. Even introducing this bill is doing damage to government recruiting, and it’s a shame. New management skills are required to run remote friendly organizations, and flexible work is clearly a if not the future of work. The old 20th century “here’s how much you have to suffer to make a living” models are going out the window, and it’s time to embrace the new culture including exploring and expanding new ways to measure true productivity, which ultimately lies at the heart of this debate.
- Ancalagon 4y agoI think this bill hurting the image of the federal government was its intended effect.
- gumby 4y agoObviously this is just a showy stake in the ground, but I was struck by this juxtaposition: > The bill would require that within 30 days of passing, every agency returns to pre-pandemic arrangements. ... The bill would also require federal agencies to complete and submit to Congress studies outlining how pandemic-era telework impacted their performance. A legit process would be to do the studies first (not to mention surveying what has worked and not worked in the private sector), do some experiments, etc. This seems like a really good thing to direct the DoL to do: do some research and surveys, commission (fund) some external research projects, and then do some experiments. I'd really support that. We are trying some small experiments internally to try to blend the best of remote and in person. For example trying to record & transcribe in person meetings just as is done with Zoom meetings, and publishing them all internally. (So far the company is so small that it hasn't mattered much, but...)
- dpkirchner 4y ago> A legit process would be to do the studies first (not to mention surveying what has worked and not worked in the private sector), do some experiments, etc. This is exactly right and what representatives interested in good governance would sponsor. Unfortunately we put the wrong people in charge for that. (I guess, thankfully, they're barely holding things together given they couldn't even elect a speaker without trying 15 times, lol.)
- pdonis 4y ago> The bill would require that within 30 days of passing, every agency returns to pre-pandemic arrangements One thing that doesn't appear to have been considered is that even pre-pandemic, many government agencies already had fairly extensive telework programs.
- gumby 4y agoThe wording, likely unwittingly, supports this, not forcing everyone into an office but “returns to pre pandemic arrangements”. So forest rangers and those who’d been working from home can keep on doing what they do. But what are “pre pandemic arrangements” anyway? Refund any raises? Force people who resigned or died to return? Keep working on completed projects?
- babyshake 4y agoA bit of a tangent, but I find the use of the "tele" prefix for words like "telework", "telehealth", etc. to sound very outdated. Haven't we settled on "remote work"?
- 5555624 4y agoI work for the federal government and we were "reminded" a couple of months ago that "telework" and "remote work" are not the same. If you telework, then you have a desk at the office, even if you are sharing it and you are usually expected in the office X days per pay period. Remote work is done from home 100% of the time and you do not have a desk at the work agency's office. I was disabled 15 months ago and HR would not consider a remote work situation; but, they did approve a request for 100% telework. My cubicle sits there, the monitor and keyboard gathering dust. (I've actually been in the office, twice, for a couple of hours.)
- StreamBright 4y agoAt this stage companies forcing people work onsite are the ones that going extinct in the next decade. Hiring from global talent pool is a much better option. Of course the government just like with anything else goes for the worst option. Always, every single time.
- mjmsmith 4y agoThis bill only exists because it didn’t go for the worst option on remote work.
- whoopdedo 4y agoThe irony in this is that many of these representatives were elected by rural voters who were promised better broadband access and remote working opportunities.
- Longlius 4y agoYou know, this seems like the sort of thing that each agency should decide on their own after taking into consideration the actual workflows and requirements of what they do to determine which style of work benefits them the most. But a bizarre coterie of hyper-nostalgic boomers ramming legislation through is fine too I guess.
- mrguyorama 4y agoApparently a directive from the very top that requires everyone to do the same thing regardless of circumstances "small government". Probably the same people that say the bullshit they implement in jira is "agile" and then wonder why their business sucks
- rayiner 4y agoThe GOP is so nearsighted. It’s almost certainly better for them in the long term for the DC federal workforce to leave the city and inner suburbs and raise their families in the surrounding red and purple areas exurbs. And all of the downsides of that (reduction of economic activity downtown) is going to be felt by democrats.
- wilg 4y agoI feel like we should probably disregard stories about the minority party passing bills that won't pass the other chamber. It's all going to be pointless posturing.
- hardtke 4y agoI hate to be contrarian, but can civil service worker protections coexist with remote work? WFH works well when there is accountability for the quality and quantity of your work (you can be fired for not performing), but with the drawn out disciplinary procedures common in the civil service jobs it's very difficult to keep employees productive.