8 ms·

Stadia Bluetooth Mode

158 points by kyrra 4y ago

willio58 4y ago
Google has become impressively good at killing their own products. It's just unfortunate they can't support things enough to get them off the ground in the first place.
- skybrian 4y ago
  I don’t think it’s all on Google. The customers get a say too. Most gamers said no, so the product failed.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    The gamers said no because it was a product where you didn't own the games, didn't own the hardware it ran on, and couldn't play the games without being within a few dozen miles of a Google datacenter (an exaggeration, but I'm certainly not close enough to play anything with a reflex check, and I'm on fiber in the lower 50 states). I can't blame them; the value proposition for most gamers was approximately zero.
    - wjnc 4y ago
      Happy user of Stadia here. Fit the dad gamer in off hours usecase perfectly. Spent enough on it that even the total refund felt like something. And now on top of that I own a controller to use with the GeForce Now embedded in my LG TV. Consumer galore.
      - falcolas 4y ago
        I hate to put it this way, but you got lucky in getting a total refund. Question though: Did you get to keep your progress in the games, or did you lose that with the shutdown?
        wjnc 4y ago
        If I understand correctly Ubisoft even put the games I got refunded in their portal including progress for me conditional on me making an account. All other progress is lost. The Xbox days of caring about perfectly finishing games are long behind me. I did think about the money and Google angle up front. I saw no reason Google could get away with no refunds under Dutch law. That might have been optimistic, but in the end might also have driven them to refunds. Same risk is in my eBook or audiobook collection.
        drusepth 4y ago
        IIRC, Google said from the beginning they'd refund purchases if they shut down. >Question though: Did you get to keep your progress in the games, or did you lose that with the shutdown? You can get all your game savedata from Google Takeout, but in order to actually use it you'd need to own the game on another platform that lets you import that save data (like PC). The refund for each game is nice for re-buying the games elsewhere, but some consoles aren't that easy to import existing save data into. Some games implemented some cloud saves to help move data around, but there's probably some games where you're SOL getting your progress into your next platform.
      - nailer 4y ago
        I played Cyberpunk in both stadia and GFN on the same connection on the same machine in early 2021. Performance in GFN was way better than Stadia.
      - ChildOfChaos 4y ago
        I was a happy Stadia user too, I think they should have marketed it more to casual audiences, it's untapped, plenty of people would love to play the odd game but don't as they don't have hardware etc. Partly as the service had games like Monopoly and Uno on it, lots of casual party games, that is all it needed. Bad marketing from Google here, they should have pivoted to that market once they lost the toxic gaming community.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - AceJohnny2 4y ago
      > and couldn't play the games without being within a few dozen miles of a Google datacenter (an exaggeration, but I'm certainly not close enough to play anything with a reflex check, and I'm on fiber in the lower 50 states). Counterexample: I was happily playing Destiny (a "twitchy" FPS) on an iPad in AirBnBs by Lake Tahoe or in Washington. I was really impressed. In contrast, one of my friends who migrated to Geforce Now has been complaining about much worse latency, graphical and audio glitches. I assume Google's excellent ISP peering helped Stadia.
      - drusepth 4y ago
        >Counterexample: I was happily playing Destiny (a "twitchy" FPS) on an iPad in AirBnBs by Lake Tahoe or in Washington. I was really impressed. Another anecdote: I played through the entirety of Celeste (an extremely difficult frame-perfect platformer) on Stadia with almost no issues. I switched to GeforceNow when Stadia announced they were shutting down. It's comparable in quality most of the time, but has quite a few quirks and the UX leaves a lot to be desired.
        0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
        Celeste is a very strong data point in favor of the platform. That being said, it is amusing that you are describing a game that could likely run on 10 year old hardware without any issue.
        AceJohnny2 4y ago
        > it is amusing that you are describing a game that could likely run on 10 year old hardware without any issue. That really has no relation to the inherent problem of cloud gaming: latency. In fact, an Apple II can have better latency than a modern computer! [1] And as a counterpoint to Celeste, they recently released their toy/testing game "The Worm Game" as a sort of parting gift, and I was shocked at the latency on that, where I had to really anticipate turning the snake. It was a completely different experience, and had I tried that first I never would've believed in the platform. [1] https://danluu.com/input-lag/ https://danluu.com/input-lag/
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    It's circular though - I think a lot of gamers said no because they knew that Google could kill the service, and in this case everything they bought would disappear forever. I didn't want to invest in such an ecosystem. So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.
    - ascagnel_ 4y ago
      Additionally, there are competitors (Microsoft's xCloud, NVidia's GeForce NOW) that side-step the problem of Stadia's ecosystem. xCloud is only available with Microsoft's all-you-can-eat, Netflix-style game subscription service (and generally only plays games available on that service), while GFN works with a user's existing digital library. Stadia seemingly offered the worst of all options: games had to be purchased at full price through Google's storefront, could not be played locally, and required Google's streaming back-end to be available.
      - dividedbyzero 4y ago
        You can use Steam with Geforce Now?
        ascagnel_ 4y ago
        Per a marketing page, GFN supports some Steam games (publishers can opt their games out). https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/games/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/games/
        drusepth 4y ago
        GFN works by linking your accounts on existing storefronts (Steam, Epic, GOG). Not all games from those libraries are supported (publishers have to opt in, not out), but if you own a supported game already, you can stream it on GFN for free, or subscribe to a paid GFN tier for a better experience. Anecdotal numbers: I have a Steam library of 197 games and 44 of them are available on GFN.
    - myself248 4y ago
      We all remember PlaysForSure™.
  - james_in_the_uk 4y ago
    Target market = people who: (I) like to play computer games (II) haven’t already invested in hardware and a library (II) aren’t sensitive to latency. Not exactly surprising that it didn’t take off.
    - SkyPuncher 4y ago
      I can't even tolerate the latency of playing my PS5 one room over. Can't see how it'd be any fun to play a game hosted hundreds of miles away.
      - _cenw 4y ago
        Weirdly enough, a lot of the latency doesn't seem to be all network related, but rather encoder/decoder and pacing related. I can't play games on the same LAN over Moonlight/Parsec without noticing the severe drop in responsiveness, but I can barely notice when using GeForce Now. Shadow and Xbox Cloud Streaming are basically unplayable again though.
  - sp332 4y ago
    Partly, but also they spun up an entire game studio and then shut it down after two years. What was that even for?
  - xeromal 4y ago
    This product specifically is DOA. Its userbase is too niche. Gamers are not found of latency and this product is very much latency. I used something like stadia called OnLive in 2012 and while very neat, I preferred gaming on my system or PC.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      I'm sorry, but did you actually use Stadia? For many, including myself, latency was minimal and not a problem at all for the tons of story based games (Red Dead Redemption 2, Hitman, various Assassin's Creeds). It wasn't DOA, it was killed by Google's poor marketing, strategy and reputation (which could have been compensated if they had done the first two right).
  - AceJohnny2 4y ago
    It's certainly an uphill battle to convince players. I blame their feeble marketing. For example I remain flabbergasted that the landing page for Stadia always redirected to a "Need Chrome" page if you weren't already on it, with zero enticement for why you should.
  - fleddr 4y ago
    It is all on Google as the lack of a market fit is absurdly obvious. In theory, cloud-only gaming would make it possible for low budget gamers to experience high budget gaming. To play games they normally can't run because they can't afford the hardware. That should be the entire point of moving heavy compute to the cloud. That theory doesn't work out because the network requirements to make this playable correlate with people that are NOT on a budget. Plus, you still have to pay full price for individual games, so in any case it's not low budget gaming. Which brings into view the more likely target audience: the convenience gamer or "dad gamer". Gamers constrained by time but not money. When you game infrequently yet consistently, a console is still the superior deal. They are heavily subsidized hardware, don't have the network overhead for rendering, a very long lifecycle (7 years), a huge selection of games, additional functionality (a media center for your TV), supports fully offline games, and are backed by actual gaming companies rather than the erratic toddler named Google. Why would you possibly go for Stadia? To experiment? To not want to commit to owning a console? Fine, all valid. But you can't seriously think that's a sizable market. Simple market research or basic common sense should have revealed this prior to this disaster. I'm especially calling it a disaster because during launch, Google got roasted with questions about the platform being future-proof, given their questionable reputation. They promised to commit this time, for real. Just 14 months later their internal game studio got shutdown, and things started rolling from there. Zero market research and just throwing things at the wall, business as usual. Any other company being this unreliable would have been out of business long ago, but Google's arrogance knows no bounds as it prints money with ads. They should not be celebrated for a graceful shutdown. They should be thought of as an unserious business to avoid. Don't ever put anything of value (time, money, energy, emotion) into a Google product.
    - cptskippy 4y ago
      > Don't ever put anything of value (time, money, energy, emotion) into a Google product. To be fair, any product that allows them to capture data about your habits and improve their ability to push Ads at you is generally good (e.g., Google Account, Gmail, Android). But I completely agree with you. They used OR instead of AND in their market research.
rew0rk 4y ago
> Available until December 31, 2023 Meaning that controllers that have the old firmware will be unable to switch after that date? This seems like a weird restriction to have if this is a firmware update?
- bluSCALE4 4y ago
  Google must kill everything. EVERYTHING.
- mewse-hn 4y ago
  It's all part of the gamepads-as-a-service business plan :P
- lxgr 4y ago
  Maybe a code signing certificate (or some boot ticket signing backend) for the firmware will expire at that date?
- andrewia 4y ago
  I assume it requires something hosted, and can't be open sourced due to licensing restrictions*. Hopefully it can be reverse engineered. *I've heard from firmware engineers inside and outside of Google that licensing is the biggest reason why stuff isn't open sourced.
  - AstixAndBelix 4y ago
    I mean, that's absolutely true for Android hardware. If MediaTek or Qualcomm or any other supplier for the various parts open sourced their drivers we would be able to port any new version of AOSP to basically everything that has enough juice to run it and then some. Unfortunately these companies control the drivers and have the strictest licenses imaginable, so even companies like Samsung or Google can only offer updates as long as their suppliers allow them, after that it's just waiting for the ABI to break and the old drivers to stop working
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    I am beyond grateful for Bluetooth functionality on a free controller, but the greedy part of me was half-hoping Google would unlock the device and open source the gamepad-over-ip code. My wish is selfish: I wasn't play Steam games that are on a gaming PC in a different room to my TV, the PC is well outside of bluetooth range, but both areas have WiFi coverage. I acknowledge that this is a first-world problem, but regardless, I hope someone will be able to reverse-engineer the firmware and come up with an open-version.
y-curious 4y ago
This is really, really good of them. They could have just made this into more e-waste.
- nailer 4y ago
  Damnit I already threw mine out.
  - drusepth 4y ago
    Why? It was still usable by just using USB before this update.
    - sangnoir 4y ago
      Depending on how far away the display might be, a USB cable can be extremely inconvenient. Does the USB spec allow for 13" (4m) cables for playin on a TV?
    - nailer 4y ago
      I would never game on a 3M USB cable.
      - XCSme 4y ago
        Why? Latency? Or just the cable being too inconvenient?
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  Fwiw, the controller already worked like a controller if you hooked it up through a USB cable. The Bluetooth functionality is nice, though. I've gone through the process and for what it was (putting a controller into flash mode, then flashing a new bootloader(?), then flashing Bluetooth firmware) it was a very smooth process. Especially for a browser-based process. I may not like the direction WebUSB is taking browsers, but the process was quite smooth and will work on pretty much any device with a USB port (except for platforms like iOS that limit browser availability).
AlexandrB 4y ago
Credit to Google, they didn't have to do this. Especially after issuing refunds for hardware already.
- hbn 4y ago
  It could also be a way of covering their asses. Big tech ends up in courts all the time these days, I wouldn't be surprised if creating a bunch of e-waste out of 1 to 3-year-old controllers would be brought up at some point
  - sofixa 4y ago
    It's not e-waste because the controllers work over USB already.
- myself248 4y ago
  On the other hand, they made it a WebUSB process instead of a standalone firmware, so when they take this update server down, any further controllers found at a garage-sale or whatever can't be updated. A cookie for whoever's the first to snarf the firmware in-flight and whip up a standalone updater.
- Ajedi32 4y ago
  This is the most graceful shutdown of a Google product that I've seen in quite a while. Full, automatic refunds for game and hardware purchases, downloads for savegames, and software updates to remove hardware dependence on external servers before they shutdown. I can't think of much else they could have done to make things smoother for customers, short of not shutting it down at all of course. (And undoubtedly, the fact that they are killing yet another product is inescapable, and doesn't help their reputation for doing that.)
  - sofixa 4y ago
    If only they had said beforehand that's going to be their shutdown process they probably wouldn't have had to shut it down..
RulerOf 4y ago
Heh, the store still has the listing, but no models available: https://store.google.com/config/g1q35w?hl=en-US&pli=1 https://store.google.com/config/g1q35w?hl=en-US&pli=1 Anyone know if it's possible to buy one anywhere? I recall hearing that it was a decent controller.
- falcolas 4y ago
  Might I recommend an 8BitDo Pro2 controller if you don't find one? Fantastic wireless controller for not a lot of money.
  - RulerOf 4y ago
    I actually have two of those and like them a lot, but figured Stadia controllers might cost next to nothing if anyone still has them, as opposed to 50 bucks for the 8bitdo.
- cloudking 4y ago
  There are quite a few on eBay
franczesko 4y ago
I'm sorry to see the service go. It carried my through the pandemic. I do have to say I'm impressed, as this is a very user-centric move from Google. Big kudos for that.
aloneindecember 4y ago
Stadia actually worked very well for me. I got it for free basically, and didn't end up using it a lot, but the technology was pretty cool.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  It was a killer when traveling: all I had to pack was a controller and a Chromecast (only if I wasn't bringing a laptop with me)
_Cr15py_ 4y ago
This is great news. I have two controllers (and many hours of fun on Stadia). It really was a great service for me... sat in the Scottish Highlands with a Starlink 'net connection I had the best of both worlds... rural living and a fast enough connection to not worry about latency. My platform of choice is now a Steam Deck so my first test will be there, hoping it'll work.
iglio 4y ago
Great to see! Has anyone tried one of the controllers with a Nintendo switch?
- CobrastanJorji 4y ago
  I haven't, but I suspect it would work well on a Switch hacked up with homebrew firmware and would not work on a vanilla Switch. The Switch is not very accepting of controllers other than the ones designed specifically for the Switch, but the homebrew crowd has done a very good job of fixing that.
  - PAPPPmAc 4y ago
    Can confirm. Just tried with my newly-Bluetooth'd Stadia controller, will pair with an on-hand Android device and Linux box, doesn't show up on the find controllers screen of an (un-hacked) Switch, as expected.
nickthegreek 4y ago
Just did this update on my controller. Pretty cool process, it recognized the controller didnt have enough battery to continue and denied the update. After it charged for a bit, it was all pretty straight forward. Now to find the other controllers I got around the house and get them done. Had to use Chrome to do all the updating though.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  Any browser supporting WebUSB should work. Chromium works, Brave works too I believe. Firefox and Safari don't support WebUSB because they don't use a Blink-based engine. iOS browsers also won't work because they're Safari under the hood (as all browsers must be under current iOS rules, though that may change soon).
- hs86 4y ago
  I find it weird that I had to use Chrome to update the firmware of my device. And it was even weirder that the process went through smoothly. Maybe this is better than downloading a one-off utility from a manufacturer's slow FTP and selecting a firmware file in its file picker and hoping that the combination of flashing utility version + firmware image + my hardware + my OS + the current stellar constellation aligns, and I will still have a working device after this ceremony.
  - indrora 4y ago
    Electron supports WebUSB. Just saying. As terrible as this is to say, it could have been an Electron app.
- benhurmarcel 4y ago
  It works on Edge for the record
- sangnoir 4y ago
  I'd recommend waiting on updating some controllers until later in the year in the hope that someone is able to reverse the firmware and bring back the play-over-IP functionality. I'm assuming that controllers with the Bluetooth firmware are harder to unlock.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
closetodaway 4y ago
Why isn't this this a normal controller? I've never used stadia.
- drusepth 4y ago
  The controller connected to wifi instead of the device you were playing on. That meant it could send inputs directly to the game servers in the cloud (without knowing anything about the device you were playing on) and not worry about extra hops or performance bottlenecks in trying to route through e.g. smart TVs, Chromecasts, laptops, etc. This update allows it to pair with devices like a normal controller, so input from the controller will be sent to that device instead of some cloud server.
- AceJohnny2 4y ago
  The Stadia controller integrated wifi functionality to send input directly to the cloud. It wasn't meant to be used with a local device.
  - closetodaway 4y ago
    My router has a latency of 1ms. Why doesn't the controller send input to the PC like a regular controller, which can then send it to the cloud? That would add 2ms of latency.
    - AceJohnny2 4y ago
      Why deal with some unknown middlebox, and all the support problems therein, when they can send straight to the cloud it's meant to go anyhow?
    - hackmiester 4y ago
      To avoid adding 2ms of latency.
    - sangnoir 4y ago
      What's the probability that some random 3-y.o. smart TV's BT stack would add much more latency? Stadia didn't only work on PCs
pvg 4y ago
Thread from two days ago at 174 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34391742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34391742
PAPPPmAc 4y ago
Did my freebie. The update behavior is interesting. The tool is picky (in that "Flashback to ActiveX bullshit" kind of way) about the platform that does the update. Has to be a real computer (won't work from Android). Has to be running Chrome 108+ (My out-of-support chromebook with 106 or whatever won't work). Can't be a Linux box with Chromium or Chrome (always fails with "Close other tabs using the controller Couldn’t connect to your controller because it’s currently being used by another tab or program."). I eventually passed it through to a Windows 10 VM with google-brand Chrome and got it to work, and that exposed some extra details. Instructions and responses: Hold "..." during plug in press "..." + Assistant (the other button with 3 dots below it) + A + Y all at once Re-enumerates as "NXP Semiconductors SP Blank RT family" [Server does something] Re-enumerates as "Freescale Semiconductor USB Composite Device" [Server does something] Re-enumerates as "Google LLC Stadia Controller rev. A" ... it looks like it's temporarily nudging the NXP (formerly Freescale) MIMXRT1061 processor into some kind of DFU-like firmware update mode via the button combos, loading a different bitstream so it can act as a USB composite device to expose the update mechanism of the BCM43458 (radio), flashing that, then rebooting the main CPU back into the USB HID controller mode. You do lose the headphone jack, which is a bit of a shame because having it work as a Bluetooth audio device would make it even more useful - but at least it's a Bluetooth controller.
- arrakeen 4y ago
  worked for me on debian with the latest chrome deb from google
  - PAPPPmAc 4y ago
    This gamingonlinux thread https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2023/01/bluetooth-support-for-the-stadia-controller-is-now-live/comment_id=238407 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2023/01/bluetooth-support-for-... seems to have the details of getting it working on Linux, it looks like it depends on some udev rules, both the ones from the FAQ ( https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/13067284?visit_id=638096509631449334-3341588219&p=controllerconnect&rd=1#zippy=%2Cim-on-a-linux-based-computer-and-cant-update-my-stadia-controller-help https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/13067284?visit_id=6...) and some apparently-varying-by-distro defaults.
treacle 4y ago
How do I turn off the controller? (I am now using bluetooth mode.)
- treacle 4y ago
  Think I've discovered the answer, 4 seconds stadia button for off.
treacle 4y ago
Can I use the headphone port in bluetooth mode?

158 points by kyrra 4y ago

Google has become impressively good at killing their own products. It's just unfortunate they can't support things enough to get them off the ground in the first place.

skybrian 4y ago
I don’t think it’s all on Google. The customers get a say too. Most gamers said no, so the product failed.
- falcolas 4y ago
  The gamers said no because it was a product where you didn't own the games, didn't own the hardware it ran on, and couldn't play the games without being within a few dozen miles of a Google datacenter (an exaggeration, but I'm certainly not close enough to play anything with a reflex check, and I'm on fiber in the lower 50 states). I can't blame them; the value proposition for most gamers was approximately zero.
  - wjnc 4y ago
    Happy user of Stadia here. Fit the dad gamer in off hours usecase perfectly. Spent enough on it that even the total refund felt like something. And now on top of that I own a controller to use with the GeForce Now embedded in my LG TV. Consumer galore.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      I hate to put it this way, but you got lucky in getting a total refund. Question though: Did you get to keep your progress in the games, or did you lose that with the shutdown?
      - wjnc 4y ago
        If I understand correctly Ubisoft even put the games I got refunded in their portal including progress for me conditional on me making an account. All other progress is lost. The Xbox days of caring about perfectly finishing games are long behind me. I did think about the money and Google angle up front. I saw no reason Google could get away with no refunds under Dutch law. That might have been optimistic, but in the end might also have driven them to refunds. Same risk is in my eBook or audiobook collection.
      - drusepth 4y ago
        IIRC, Google said from the beginning they'd refund purchases if they shut down. >Question though: Did you get to keep your progress in the games, or did you lose that with the shutdown? You can get all your game savedata from Google Takeout, but in order to actually use it you'd need to own the game on another platform that lets you import that save data (like PC). The refund for each game is nice for re-buying the games elsewhere, but some consoles aren't that easy to import existing save data into. Some games implemented some cloud saves to help move data around, but there's probably some games where you're SOL getting your progress into your next platform.
    - nailer 4y ago
      I played Cyberpunk in both stadia and GFN on the same connection on the same machine in early 2021. Performance in GFN was way better than Stadia.
    - ChildOfChaos 4y ago
      I was a happy Stadia user too, I think they should have marketed it more to casual audiences, it's untapped, plenty of people would love to play the odd game but don't as they don't have hardware etc. Partly as the service had games like Monopoly and Uno on it, lots of casual party games, that is all it needed. Bad marketing from Google here, they should have pivoted to that market once they lost the toxic gaming community.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - AceJohnny2 4y ago
    > and couldn't play the games without being within a few dozen miles of a Google datacenter (an exaggeration, but I'm certainly not close enough to play anything with a reflex check, and I'm on fiber in the lower 50 states). Counterexample: I was happily playing Destiny (a "twitchy" FPS) on an iPad in AirBnBs by Lake Tahoe or in Washington. I was really impressed. In contrast, one of my friends who migrated to Geforce Now has been complaining about much worse latency, graphical and audio glitches. I assume Google's excellent ISP peering helped Stadia.
    - drusepth 4y ago
      >Counterexample: I was happily playing Destiny (a "twitchy" FPS) on an iPad in AirBnBs by Lake Tahoe or in Washington. I was really impressed. Another anecdote: I played through the entirety of Celeste (an extremely difficult frame-perfect platformer) on Stadia with almost no issues. I switched to GeforceNow when Stadia announced they were shutting down. It's comparable in quality most of the time, but has quite a few quirks and the UX leaves a lot to be desired.
      - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
        Celeste is a very strong data point in favor of the platform. That being said, it is amusing that you are describing a game that could likely run on 10 year old hardware without any issue.
        AceJohnny2 4y ago
        > it is amusing that you are describing a game that could likely run on 10 year old hardware without any issue. That really has no relation to the inherent problem of cloud gaming: latency. In fact, an Apple II can have better latency than a modern computer! [1] And as a counterpoint to Celeste, they recently released their toy/testing game "The Worm Game" as a sort of parting gift, and I was shocked at the latency on that, where I had to really anticipate turning the snake. It was a completely different experience, and had I tried that first I never would've believed in the platform. [1] https://danluu.com/input-lag/ https://danluu.com/input-lag/
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  It's circular though - I think a lot of gamers said no because they knew that Google could kill the service, and in this case everything they bought would disappear forever. I didn't want to invest in such an ecosystem. So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.
  - ascagnel_ 4y ago
    Additionally, there are competitors (Microsoft's xCloud, NVidia's GeForce NOW) that side-step the problem of Stadia's ecosystem. xCloud is only available with Microsoft's all-you-can-eat, Netflix-style game subscription service (and generally only plays games available on that service), while GFN works with a user's existing digital library. Stadia seemingly offered the worst of all options: games had to be purchased at full price through Google's storefront, could not be played locally, and required Google's streaming back-end to be available.
    - dividedbyzero 4y ago
      You can use Steam with Geforce Now?
      - ascagnel_ 4y ago
        Per a marketing page, GFN supports some Steam games (publishers can opt their games out). https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/games/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/games/
      - drusepth 4y ago
        GFN works by linking your accounts on existing storefronts (Steam, Epic, GOG). Not all games from those libraries are supported (publishers have to opt in, not out), but if you own a supported game already, you can stream it on GFN for free, or subscribe to a paid GFN tier for a better experience. Anecdotal numbers: I have a Steam library of 197 games and 44 of them are available on GFN.
  - myself248 4y ago
    We all remember PlaysForSure™.
- james_in_the_uk 4y ago
  Target market = people who: (I) like to play computer games (II) haven’t already invested in hardware and a library (II) aren’t sensitive to latency. Not exactly surprising that it didn’t take off.
  - SkyPuncher 4y ago
    I can't even tolerate the latency of playing my PS5 one room over. Can't see how it'd be any fun to play a game hosted hundreds of miles away.
    - _cenw 4y ago
      Weirdly enough, a lot of the latency doesn't seem to be all network related, but rather encoder/decoder and pacing related. I can't play games on the same LAN over Moonlight/Parsec without noticing the severe drop in responsiveness, but I can barely notice when using GeForce Now. Shadow and Xbox Cloud Streaming are basically unplayable again though.
- sp332 4y ago
  Partly, but also they spun up an entire game studio and then shut it down after two years. What was that even for?
- xeromal 4y ago
  This product specifically is DOA. Its userbase is too niche. Gamers are not found of latency and this product is very much latency. I used something like stadia called OnLive in 2012 and while very neat, I preferred gaming on my system or PC.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    I'm sorry, but did you actually use Stadia? For many, including myself, latency was minimal and not a problem at all for the tons of story based games (Red Dead Redemption 2, Hitman, various Assassin's Creeds). It wasn't DOA, it was killed by Google's poor marketing, strategy and reputation (which could have been compensated if they had done the first two right).
- AceJohnny2 4y ago
  It's certainly an uphill battle to convince players. I blame their feeble marketing. For example I remain flabbergasted that the landing page for Stadia always redirected to a "Need Chrome" page if you weren't already on it, with zero enticement for why you should.
- fleddr 4y ago
  It is all on Google as the lack of a market fit is absurdly obvious. In theory, cloud-only gaming would make it possible for low budget gamers to experience high budget gaming. To play games they normally can't run because they can't afford the hardware. That should be the entire point of moving heavy compute to the cloud. That theory doesn't work out because the network requirements to make this playable correlate with people that are NOT on a budget. Plus, you still have to pay full price for individual games, so in any case it's not low budget gaming. Which brings into view the more likely target audience: the convenience gamer or "dad gamer". Gamers constrained by time but not money. When you game infrequently yet consistently, a console is still the superior deal. They are heavily subsidized hardware, don't have the network overhead for rendering, a very long lifecycle (7 years), a huge selection of games, additional functionality (a media center for your TV), supports fully offline games, and are backed by actual gaming companies rather than the erratic toddler named Google. Why would you possibly go for Stadia? To experiment? To not want to commit to owning a console? Fine, all valid. But you can't seriously think that's a sizable market. Simple market research or basic common sense should have revealed this prior to this disaster. I'm especially calling it a disaster because during launch, Google got roasted with questions about the platform being future-proof, given their questionable reputation. They promised to commit this time, for real. Just 14 months later their internal game studio got shutdown, and things started rolling from there. Zero market research and just throwing things at the wall, business as usual. Any other company being this unreliable would have been out of business long ago, but Google's arrogance knows no bounds as it prints money with ads. They should not be celebrated for a graceful shutdown. They should be thought of as an unserious business to avoid. Don't ever put anything of value (time, money, energy, emotion) into a Google product.
  - cptskippy 4y ago
    > Don't ever put anything of value (time, money, energy, emotion) into a Google product. To be fair, any product that allows them to capture data about your habits and improve their ability to push Ads at you is generally good (e.g., Google Account, Gmail, Android). But I completely agree with you. They used OR instead of AND in their market research.

rew0rk 4y ago

> Available until December 31, 2023 Meaning that controllers that have the old firmware will be unable to switch after that date? This seems like a weird restriction to have if this is a firmware update?

bluSCALE4 4y ago
Google must kill everything. EVERYTHING.
mewse-hn 4y ago
It's all part of the gamepads-as-a-service business plan :P
lxgr 4y ago
Maybe a code signing certificate (or some boot ticket signing backend) for the firmware will expire at that date?
andrewia 4y ago
I assume it requires something hosted, and can't be open sourced due to licensing restrictions*. Hopefully it can be reverse engineered. *I've heard from firmware engineers inside and outside of Google that licensing is the biggest reason why stuff isn't open sourced.
- AstixAndBelix 4y ago
  I mean, that's absolutely true for Android hardware. If MediaTek or Qualcomm or any other supplier for the various parts open sourced their drivers we would be able to port any new version of AOSP to basically everything that has enough juice to run it and then some. Unfortunately these companies control the drivers and have the strictest licenses imaginable, so even companies like Samsung or Google can only offer updates as long as their suppliers allow them, after that it's just waiting for the ABI to break and the old drivers to stop working
- sangnoir 4y ago
  I am beyond grateful for Bluetooth functionality on a free controller, but the greedy part of me was half-hoping Google would unlock the device and open source the gamepad-over-ip code. My wish is selfish: I wasn't play Steam games that are on a gaming PC in a different room to my TV, the PC is well outside of bluetooth range, but both areas have WiFi coverage. I acknowledge that this is a first-world problem, but regardless, I hope someone will be able to reverse-engineer the firmware and come up with an open-version.

y-curious 4y ago

This is really, really good of them. They could have just made this into more e-waste.

nailer 4y ago
Damnit I already threw mine out.
- drusepth 4y ago
  Why? It was still usable by just using USB before this update.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    Depending on how far away the display might be, a USB cable can be extremely inconvenient. Does the USB spec allow for 13" (4m) cables for playin on a TV?
  - nailer 4y ago
    I would never game on a 3M USB cable.
    - XCSme 4y ago
      Why? Latency? Or just the cable being too inconvenient?
jeroenhd 4y ago
Fwiw, the controller already worked like a controller if you hooked it up through a USB cable. The Bluetooth functionality is nice, though. I've gone through the process and for what it was (putting a controller into flash mode, then flashing a new bootloader(?), then flashing Bluetooth firmware) it was a very smooth process. Especially for a browser-based process. I may not like the direction WebUSB is taking browsers, but the process was quite smooth and will work on pretty much any device with a USB port (except for platforms like iOS that limit browser availability).

AlexandrB 4y ago

Credit to Google, they didn't have to do this. Especially after issuing refunds for hardware already.

hbn 4y ago
It could also be a way of covering their asses. Big tech ends up in courts all the time these days, I wouldn't be surprised if creating a bunch of e-waste out of 1 to 3-year-old controllers would be brought up at some point
- sofixa 4y ago
  It's not e-waste because the controllers work over USB already.
myself248 4y ago
On the other hand, they made it a WebUSB process instead of a standalone firmware, so when they take this update server down, any further controllers found at a garage-sale or whatever can't be updated. A cookie for whoever's the first to snarf the firmware in-flight and whip up a standalone updater.
Ajedi32 4y ago
This is the most graceful shutdown of a Google product that I've seen in quite a while. Full, automatic refunds for game and hardware purchases, downloads for savegames, and software updates to remove hardware dependence on external servers before they shutdown. I can't think of much else they could have done to make things smoother for customers, short of not shutting it down at all of course. (And undoubtedly, the fact that they are killing yet another product is inescapable, and doesn't help their reputation for doing that.)
- sofixa 4y ago
  If only they had said beforehand that's going to be their shutdown process they probably wouldn't have had to shut it down..

RulerOf 4y ago

Heh, the store still has the listing, but no models available: https://store.google.com/config/g1q35w?hl=en-US&pli=1 https://store.google.com/config/g1q35w?hl=en-US&pli=1 Anyone know if it's possible to buy one anywhere? I recall hearing that it was a decent controller.

falcolas 4y ago
Might I recommend an 8BitDo Pro2 controller if you don't find one? Fantastic wireless controller for not a lot of money.
- RulerOf 4y ago
  I actually have two of those and like them a lot, but figured Stadia controllers might cost next to nothing if anyone still has them, as opposed to 50 bucks for the 8bitdo.
cloudking 4y ago
There are quite a few on eBay

franczesko 4y ago

I'm sorry to see the service go. It carried my through the pandemic. I do have to say I'm impressed, as this is a very user-centric move from Google. Big kudos for that.

aloneindecember 4y ago

Stadia actually worked very well for me. I got it for free basically, and didn't end up using it a lot, but the technology was pretty cool.

sangnoir 4y ago
It was a killer when traveling: all I had to pack was a controller and a Chromecast (only if I wasn't bringing a laptop with me)

_Cr15py_ 4y ago

This is great news. I have two controllers (and many hours of fun on Stadia). It really was a great service for me... sat in the Scottish Highlands with a Starlink 'net connection I had the best of both worlds... rural living and a fast enough connection to not worry about latency. My platform of choice is now a Steam Deck so my first test will be there, hoping it'll work.

iglio 4y ago

Great to see! Has anyone tried one of the controllers with a Nintendo switch?

CobrastanJorji 4y ago
I haven't, but I suspect it would work well on a Switch hacked up with homebrew firmware and would not work on a vanilla Switch. The Switch is not very accepting of controllers other than the ones designed specifically for the Switch, but the homebrew crowd has done a very good job of fixing that.
- PAPPPmAc 4y ago
  Can confirm. Just tried with my newly-Bluetooth'd Stadia controller, will pair with an on-hand Android device and Linux box, doesn't show up on the find controllers screen of an (un-hacked) Switch, as expected.

nickthegreek 4y ago

Just did this update on my controller. Pretty cool process, it recognized the controller didnt have enough battery to continue and denied the update. After it charged for a bit, it was all pretty straight forward. Now to find the other controllers I got around the house and get them done. Had to use Chrome to do all the updating though.

jeroenhd 4y ago
Any browser supporting WebUSB should work. Chromium works, Brave works too I believe. Firefox and Safari don't support WebUSB because they don't use a Blink-based engine. iOS browsers also won't work because they're Safari under the hood (as all browsers must be under current iOS rules, though that may change soon).
hs86 4y ago
I find it weird that I had to use Chrome to update the firmware of my device. And it was even weirder that the process went through smoothly. Maybe this is better than downloading a one-off utility from a manufacturer's slow FTP and selecting a firmware file in its file picker and hoping that the combination of flashing utility version + firmware image + my hardware + my OS + the current stellar constellation aligns, and I will still have a working device after this ceremony.
- indrora 4y ago
  Electron supports WebUSB. Just saying. As terrible as this is to say, it could have been an Electron app.
benhurmarcel 4y ago
It works on Edge for the record
sangnoir 4y ago
I'd recommend waiting on updating some controllers until later in the year in the hope that someone is able to reverse the firmware and bring back the play-over-IP functionality. I'm assuming that controllers with the Bluetooth firmware are harder to unlock.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

closetodaway 4y ago

Why isn't this this a normal controller? I've never used stadia.

drusepth 4y ago
The controller connected to wifi instead of the device you were playing on. That meant it could send inputs directly to the game servers in the cloud (without knowing anything about the device you were playing on) and not worry about extra hops or performance bottlenecks in trying to route through e.g. smart TVs, Chromecasts, laptops, etc. This update allows it to pair with devices like a normal controller, so input from the controller will be sent to that device instead of some cloud server.
AceJohnny2 4y ago
The Stadia controller integrated wifi functionality to send input directly to the cloud. It wasn't meant to be used with a local device.
- closetodaway 4y ago
  My router has a latency of 1ms. Why doesn't the controller send input to the PC like a regular controller, which can then send it to the cloud? That would add 2ms of latency.
  - AceJohnny2 4y ago
    Why deal with some unknown middlebox, and all the support problems therein, when they can send straight to the cloud it's meant to go anyhow?
  - hackmiester 4y ago
    To avoid adding 2ms of latency.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    What's the probability that some random 3-y.o. smart TV's BT stack would add much more latency? Stadia didn't only work on PCs

pvg 4y ago

Thread from two days ago at 174 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34391742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34391742

PAPPPmAc 4y ago

Did my freebie. The update behavior is interesting. The tool is picky (in that "Flashback to ActiveX bullshit" kind of way) about the platform that does the update. Has to be a real computer (won't work from Android). Has to be running Chrome 108+ (My out-of-support chromebook with 106 or whatever won't work). Can't be a Linux box with Chromium or Chrome (always fails with "Close other tabs using the controller Couldn’t connect to your controller because it’s currently being used by another tab or program."). I eventually passed it through to a Windows 10 VM with google-brand Chrome and got it to work, and that exposed some extra details. Instructions and responses: Hold "..." during plug in press "..." + Assistant (the other button with 3 dots below it) + A + Y all at once Re-enumerates as "NXP Semiconductors SP Blank RT family" [Server does something] Re-enumerates as "Freescale Semiconductor USB Composite Device" [Server does something] Re-enumerates as "Google LLC Stadia Controller rev. A" ... it looks like it's temporarily nudging the NXP (formerly Freescale) MIMXRT1061 processor into some kind of DFU-like firmware update mode via the button combos, loading a different bitstream so it can act as a USB composite device to expose the update mechanism of the BCM43458 (radio), flashing that, then rebooting the main CPU back into the USB HID controller mode. You do lose the headphone jack, which is a bit of a shame because having it work as a Bluetooth audio device would make it even more useful - but at least it's a Bluetooth controller.

arrakeen 4y ago
worked for me on debian with the latest chrome deb from google
- PAPPPmAc 4y ago
  This gamingonlinux thread https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2023/01/bluetooth-support-for-the-stadia-controller-is-now-live/comment_id=238407 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2023/01/bluetooth-support-for-... seems to have the details of getting it working on Linux, it looks like it depends on some udev rules, both the ones from the FAQ ( https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/13067284?visit_id=638096509631449334-3341588219&p=controllerconnect&rd=1#zippy=%2Cim-on-a-linux-based-computer-and-cant-update-my-stadia-controller-help https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/13067284?visit_id=6...) and some apparently-varying-by-distro defaults.

treacle 4y ago

How do I turn off the controller? (I am now using bluetooth mode.)

treacle 4y ago
Think I've discovered the answer, 4 seconds stadia button for off.

treacle 4y ago

Can I use the headphone port in bluetooth mode?