5 ms·

>It sold social status to wealthy customers rather than basic transportation to an abandoned market. That is more an artifact of the physics of electric cars.

>It sold social status to wealthy customers rather than basic transportation to an abandoned market. That is more an artifact of the physics of electric cars. To get the range the masses want, you need a large, heavy, expensive battery battery. You can get tons of power for almost not additional money, mass or volume. So building something like a 5 series BMW is very easy to do and make competitive. Building a Honda fit is very hard. The nissan leaf is the closest thing to that, and people don't want it because it can't really do road trips.

nradov 4y ago
Taking a long road trip with multiple people in a subcompact "penalty box" car the size of a Honda Fit is kind of a miserable experience regardless of what kind of motor it uses. People mostly only do that when they have no other options.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Yes cars like the Honda Fit are only for people who cannot afford a nicer, bigger car. Very few people actually prefer them. Their advantages are low cost and high fuel economy, which are the biggest factors forthe bottom end of the market.
- BaseballPhysics 4y ago
  Never owned a Fit, I take it? My wife and I owned a Fit for over ten years. We took many long roadtrips (i.e. 8+ hours in the car). For a couple with no kids, it's perfect, with a decent amount of cargo space, and great mileage. Frankly, outside of North America, small cars are by far the norm rather than the exception. The American SUV or pickup are quite literally jokes in other parts of the world for how absurdly large they are.
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
> That is more an artifact of the physics of electric cars. To get the range the masses want, you need a large, heavy, expensive battery. Kind of, you can also change the other factors in the equation like that startup building 'Lightyear' with the light weight platform, aerodynamics and with PV panels [0] [0] https://lightyear.one/lightyear-2 https://lightyear.one/lightyear-2
- tromp 4y ago
  Or the extreme aerodynamics of Aptera which in 3 days [1] claims to "showcase our production-intent design and announce our Launch Edition’s unique specifications and revolutionary capabilities in a livestream webinar." [1] https://aptera.us/meet-delta/ https://aptera.us/meet-delta/
pornel 4y ago
I think the range problem is already solved by the 800V/250kW+ charging. A 20-minute break every 3 hours of driving is within reason, and it makes the range effectively infinite. I know there are people with steel bladders who also need to tow a boat every day, through a desert, in the snow, uphill both ways, but for commuting and occasional road trips it's already pretty good. Just don't try this with Leaf and its previous-gen peers that are 5 times slower than the state of the art.
- amalgamated_inc 4y ago
  But the only 800v cars are the extreme upper end of the price scale even for EVs. I think currently it is only the Lucid Air and the Porsche Taycan, both extreme luxury even in the expensive EV segment. And the infrastructure for non-Teslas just isn't there. The state of charging infrastructure sans Tesla's Supercharger network is really, really bad in the US right now, to the point that major EV influencers are just straight up recommending not yet switching to an EV just because of this. I'm talking 1/2 of the stations broken/bricked on average, another 1/4 not delivering at all or not delivering the promised (250kW+) output, so you're stuck with 50kW in the middle of nowhere and your 20 minute stop now takes you 2.5h with no amenities around. Check the Out of Spec channel on Youtube for frequent updates on this type of stuff.
  - flopsamjetsam 4y ago
    The Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 are both 800v charging too.
    - amalgamated_inc 4y ago
      Oh, thanks for the correction, I knew I was forgetting someone. Yea, those 2 (same car I believe, just rebadged?) are supposed to be pretty awesome. And at low $40k entry level they're maybe not priced cheap, but cheap-ish in the EV world, especially for vehicles with 800v systems! What does a Lucid get you over these? 1,000HP. Does anyone really need that? So why pay 4x the price?
oliwarner 4y ago
Just imagine what you could do if you could just open the boot and swap out a few 10kg batteries at the fuel station. You'd still have 30KWh hidden around the chassis, but most people don't need >100mile range every day.

nradov 4y ago

Taking a long road trip with multiple people in a subcompact "penalty box" car the size of a Honda Fit is kind of a miserable experience regardless of what kind of motor it uses. People mostly only do that when they have no other options.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Yes cars like the Honda Fit are only for people who cannot afford a nicer, bigger car. Very few people actually prefer them. Their advantages are low cost and high fuel economy, which are the biggest factors forthe bottom end of the market.
BaseballPhysics 4y ago
Never owned a Fit, I take it? My wife and I owned a Fit for over ten years. We took many long roadtrips (i.e. 8+ hours in the car). For a couple with no kids, it's perfect, with a decent amount of cargo space, and great mileage. Frankly, outside of North America, small cars are by far the norm rather than the exception. The American SUV or pickup are quite literally jokes in other parts of the world for how absurdly large they are.

DoingIsLearning 4y ago

> That is more an artifact of the physics of electric cars. To get the range the masses want, you need a large, heavy, expensive battery. Kind of, you can also change the other factors in the equation like that startup building 'Lightyear' with the light weight platform, aerodynamics and with PV panels [0] [0] https://lightyear.one/lightyear-2 https://lightyear.one/lightyear-2

tromp 4y ago
Or the extreme aerodynamics of Aptera which in 3 days [1] claims to "showcase our production-intent design and announce our Launch Edition’s unique specifications and revolutionary capabilities in a livestream webinar." [1] https://aptera.us/meet-delta/ https://aptera.us/meet-delta/

pornel 4y ago

I think the range problem is already solved by the 800V/250kW+ charging. A 20-minute break every 3 hours of driving is within reason, and it makes the range effectively infinite. I know there are people with steel bladders who also need to tow a boat every day, through a desert, in the snow, uphill both ways, but for commuting and occasional road trips it's already pretty good. Just don't try this with Leaf and its previous-gen peers that are 5 times slower than the state of the art.

amalgamated_inc 4y ago
But the only 800v cars are the extreme upper end of the price scale even for EVs. I think currently it is only the Lucid Air and the Porsche Taycan, both extreme luxury even in the expensive EV segment. And the infrastructure for non-Teslas just isn't there. The state of charging infrastructure sans Tesla's Supercharger network is really, really bad in the US right now, to the point that major EV influencers are just straight up recommending not yet switching to an EV just because of this. I'm talking 1/2 of the stations broken/bricked on average, another 1/4 not delivering at all or not delivering the promised (250kW+) output, so you're stuck with 50kW in the middle of nowhere and your 20 minute stop now takes you 2.5h with no amenities around. Check the Out of Spec channel on Youtube for frequent updates on this type of stuff.
- flopsamjetsam 4y ago
  The Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 are both 800v charging too.
  - amalgamated_inc 4y ago
    Oh, thanks for the correction, I knew I was forgetting someone. Yea, those 2 (same car I believe, just rebadged?) are supposed to be pretty awesome. And at low $40k entry level they're maybe not priced cheap, but cheap-ish in the EV world, especially for vehicles with 800v systems! What does a Lucid get you over these? 1,000HP. Does anyone really need that? So why pay 4x the price?

oliwarner 4y ago

Just imagine what you could do if you could just open the boot and swap out a few 10kg batteries at the fuel station. You'd still have 30KWh hidden around the chassis, but most people don't need >100mile range every day.