6 ms·

Western Arrogance and China

DemocracyFTW2 4y ago
In the eyes of the West, China is supposedly a very repressive state where the people have no freedom. This is easily debunked by visiting China and seeing how the Chinese live. The claims in this article are, in the words of its author, easily debunked by visiting China and seeing how the Chinese live.
- mc32 4y ago
  The article is great propaganda, that's for sure. Whoever it is, they seem to cherry pick certain things, ignore other things and keep a few things below the surface, unspoken. It reads like Sino-exceptionalism. I really love their maximum expansion map.
  - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
    Ignore what? Have you been to China? The author isn't saying China is perfect. He's simply pointing out Western anti-China propaganda.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      It is just strawman: look at some extreme reporting on China, therefore all reporting about China in the west is wrong. It would be like judging Chinese media based on editorials in Globaltimes.cn.
      - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
        I've followed Western media studiously for years. NYT, WSJ, CNN, BBC, etc. I've yet to see a story about China that doesn't spin things negatively for China. It doesn't have to be "extreme reporting."
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        There are plenty of reporting on China in the western media that just reports..you know...news. You can spot check whatever china-related articles are showing on western media specific pages (assuming you aren't in China and therefore are blocked from those sources, of course): https://www.cnn.com/world/china https://www.cnn.com/world/china https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/china https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/china https://www.wsj.com/news/types/china-news?mod=nav_top_subsection https://www.wsj.com/news/types/china-news?mod=nav_top_subsec... https://www.economist.com/china https://www.economist.com/china Just browsing the headlines, most of the stories are boring reports and wouldn't incite outrage even in a wolf warrior. But those aren't the ones that get shared around as anti-chinese articles, so...you know...selection bias.
        smalltalkcoder 4y ago
        Of course, I don't read "boring reports". I mostly read opinion pieces and journalists with on-site reporting.
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Most news is boring; e.g. look at the first 15 minutes of the CCTV 7 PM news cast, it is just what Xi Jinping did today! If you just want to consume opinion pieces, then why not just look at FoxNews? WSJ and Economist, especially, are in a different boat since they cater to business readers, and they would lose money if reporting on China was constrained to just opinion pieces. > journalists with on-site reporting Despite China's best efforts to deport foreign journalists, there are still more than a few left.
      - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
        It's worth mentioning that every time I watch Joe Biden or Antony Blinken or Jake Sullivan or Nancy Pelosi or anyone from the US government hold a press conference about China, their words are deceitful and aggressive. That's not my imagination. When the general public sees all this on television, it is extremely influential (such is the power of television media). And, of course, all of this is repeated on social media. So I don't think it's a strawman at all.
- smalltalkcoder 4y ago
  If China had remained a backward, undeveloped country like it was in the 1970s, the world would pay China no heed. China would get zero attention; it would be completely ignored. Food for thought.
- smalltalkcoder 4y ago
  Just curious, why did you dismiss the Edelman Trust Barometer and other sources cited?
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
  Visiting China and seeing how the Chinese live won't make you think it's a beacon of democracy, but it will also show you that the Western caricature of China is horrendously distorted. Fundamentally, the question you have to ask yourself is: if China really is the hellhole that's described in Western media, why do most people in China have such a positive view of their country? The facile answer is that Chinese people must be brainwashed, but consider the difficulty of brainwashing 1.4 billion people who experience China every single day, vs. the relative ease of brainwashing (or lightly rinsing the brains of) people who have no direct experience of China.
  - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
    Exactly! The Chinese do not pretend they have Western liberal democracy, but the democratic system they do have works for them. Moreover, they've seen how well liberal democracy works for USA, UK, India, Taiwan, Brazil, Hungary, and so on, and they aren't fooled. The question is: why are we?
    - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
      I wouldn't characterize the Chinese political system as democratic at all, and there are many ways in which it does not work for many people. However, life has gotten way better in China by almost every metric over the last few decades, and Western depictions of China are incredibly distorted / driven by fear and chauvinism.
      - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
        Whether or not we think it's democratic is irrelevant; the important thing is that the Chinese think it's democratic. China's system doesn't have to work for us, as long as it works for them. The Chinese believe they enjoy just as much freedom as we do. They are informed by their international travel. Every year, over 100 million Chinese travel the world over. They've seen our freedoms in the US, UK, France, Germany, etc.
        4y ago
- smalltalkcoder 4y ago
  I am certain you've never been to China. https://youtu.be/uBchAUGW7Bk https://youtu.be/uBchAUGW7Bk
  - DemocracyFTW2 4y ago
    And you'd be wrong.
    - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
      I've been to China many times over the past 25 years. I've been to practically every corner of China. My knowledge of China is comprehensive. Your comment makes no sense to me.
smalltalkcoder 4y ago
China is Bad: https://youtu.be/KuPuXAUXZjY https://youtu.be/KuPuXAUXZjY.

In the eyes of the West, China is supposedly a very repressive state where the people have no freedom. This is easily debunked by visiting China and seeing how the Chinese live. The claims in this article are, in the words of its author, easily debunked by visiting China and seeing how the Chinese live.

mc32 4y ago
The article is great propaganda, that's for sure. Whoever it is, they seem to cherry pick certain things, ignore other things and keep a few things below the surface, unspoken. It reads like Sino-exceptionalism. I really love their maximum expansion map.
- smalltalkcoder 4y ago
  Ignore what? Have you been to China? The author isn't saying China is perfect. He's simply pointing out Western anti-China propaganda.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    It is just strawman: look at some extreme reporting on China, therefore all reporting about China in the west is wrong. It would be like judging Chinese media based on editorials in Globaltimes.cn.
    - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
      I've followed Western media studiously for years. NYT, WSJ, CNN, BBC, etc. I've yet to see a story about China that doesn't spin things negatively for China. It doesn't have to be "extreme reporting."
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        There are plenty of reporting on China in the western media that just reports..you know...news. You can spot check whatever china-related articles are showing on western media specific pages (assuming you aren't in China and therefore are blocked from those sources, of course): https://www.cnn.com/world/china https://www.cnn.com/world/china https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/china https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/china https://www.wsj.com/news/types/china-news?mod=nav_top_subsection https://www.wsj.com/news/types/china-news?mod=nav_top_subsec... https://www.economist.com/china https://www.economist.com/china Just browsing the headlines, most of the stories are boring reports and wouldn't incite outrage even in a wolf warrior. But those aren't the ones that get shared around as anti-chinese articles, so...you know...selection bias.
        smalltalkcoder 4y ago
        Of course, I don't read "boring reports". I mostly read opinion pieces and journalists with on-site reporting.
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Most news is boring; e.g. look at the first 15 minutes of the CCTV 7 PM news cast, it is just what Xi Jinping did today! If you just want to consume opinion pieces, then why not just look at FoxNews? WSJ and Economist, especially, are in a different boat since they cater to business readers, and they would lose money if reporting on China was constrained to just opinion pieces. > journalists with on-site reporting Despite China's best efforts to deport foreign journalists, there are still more than a few left.
    - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
      It's worth mentioning that every time I watch Joe Biden or Antony Blinken or Jake Sullivan or Nancy Pelosi or anyone from the US government hold a press conference about China, their words are deceitful and aggressive. That's not my imagination. When the general public sees all this on television, it is extremely influential (such is the power of television media). And, of course, all of this is repeated on social media. So I don't think it's a strawman at all.
smalltalkcoder 4y ago
If China had remained a backward, undeveloped country like it was in the 1970s, the world would pay China no heed. China would get zero attention; it would be completely ignored. Food for thought.
smalltalkcoder 4y ago
Just curious, why did you dismiss the Edelman Trust Barometer and other sources cited?
DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
Visiting China and seeing how the Chinese live won't make you think it's a beacon of democracy, but it will also show you that the Western caricature of China is horrendously distorted. Fundamentally, the question you have to ask yourself is: if China really is the hellhole that's described in Western media, why do most people in China have such a positive view of their country? The facile answer is that Chinese people must be brainwashed, but consider the difficulty of brainwashing 1.4 billion people who experience China every single day, vs. the relative ease of brainwashing (or lightly rinsing the brains of) people who have no direct experience of China.
- smalltalkcoder 4y ago
  Exactly! The Chinese do not pretend they have Western liberal democracy, but the democratic system they do have works for them. Moreover, they've seen how well liberal democracy works for USA, UK, India, Taiwan, Brazil, Hungary, and so on, and they aren't fooled. The question is: why are we?
  - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
    I wouldn't characterize the Chinese political system as democratic at all, and there are many ways in which it does not work for many people. However, life has gotten way better in China by almost every metric over the last few decades, and Western depictions of China are incredibly distorted / driven by fear and chauvinism.
    - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
      Whether or not we think it's democratic is irrelevant; the important thing is that the Chinese think it's democratic. China's system doesn't have to work for us, as long as it works for them. The Chinese believe they enjoy just as much freedom as we do. They are informed by their international travel. Every year, over 100 million Chinese travel the world over. They've seen our freedoms in the US, UK, France, Germany, etc.
      - 4y ago
smalltalkcoder 4y ago
I am certain you've never been to China. https://youtu.be/uBchAUGW7Bk https://youtu.be/uBchAUGW7Bk
- DemocracyFTW2 4y ago
  And you'd be wrong.
  - smalltalkcoder 4y ago
    I've been to China many times over the past 25 years. I've been to practically every corner of China. My knowledge of China is comprehensive. Your comment makes no sense to me.

smalltalkcoder 4y ago

China is Bad: https://youtu.be/KuPuXAUXZjY https://youtu.be/KuPuXAUXZjY.