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Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that

by winrid 4y ago

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

valleyer 4y ago
I think it's a bit harsh to call them xenophobic, but I did have a similar thought recently. What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- winrid 4y ago
  Maybe it was harsh. However I think it makes the Chinese people look bad, where they aren't really to blame. The CCP keeps labor prices low, and we exploit it, and then we sit here and complain the stuff they make is junk.
  - em500 4y ago
    Labor prices are much lower in India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines among others, than they are in China. So there is a bit more to the story than "the CCP keeps labor prices low".
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    > Maybe it was harsh. However I think it makes the Chinese people look bad, where they aren't really to blame. The CCP keeps labor prices low, and we exploit it, and then we sit here and complain the stuff they make is junk. When someone says "Chinese junk" you're not really insulting the people IMO. Just the cheap grade disposable crap you can find in corner bazaars. That stuff that breaks after 2 uses. Like someone else said, in the 80s "made in Taiwan" was a rubbing joke and before that Japan. But it has nothing to do with the people, just the phase their industry is in. It's like people here in Europe saying American cars are gas guzzlers (which they mostly are compared to EU models). You wouldn't take that personally.
  - SyzygistSix 4y ago
    The cost of labor has increased a lot in China and hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty. Perhaps other choices could do an even better job but certainly a far worse policies could be instituted.
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?" Thanks to modern economy in Canada for example people with median and below income currently can't afford to buy anything but junk. Same goes for quality food. Price of accommodation, food and many other things have skyrocketed. This is what is "worse"
  - gotorazor 4y ago
    Just did a trip to Loblaws in Toronto yesterday. I disagree. Organic groceries -- sure -- median income people can't really afford it. The traditional, raw items common to the Anglo-Irish diet like potatoes, corn, flour, butter, cabbage, etc are super cheap in Canada. Meat pricing has been super challenging since the pandemic started. Canada don't really have the same kind of agricultural subsidies that the United States has. Buying a bag of doritos isn't cheaper than a bag of potatoes. Nor, a big mac cheaper than raw ground beef.
    - FpUser 4y ago
      >"potatoes, corn, flour, butter, ... doritos" Making those your main source is highly unhealthy. It does not matter if it is called "Anglo-Irish". Greens, veggies, decent fruits, meat, fish - through the roof. In Loblaws in particular as I often shop in one. Vine tomatoes - $5 (used to pay $2). Fucking green onions - $2 for pathetic bunch (used to pay $0.5 for a bunch at least 3 times as big). Smaller box of mixed greens - $6 (used to pay $3-$3.50). Etc. etc. All of this regular, never mind organic. Meanwhile median income in Toronto is just below 40K - https://wowa.ca/average-income-canada#Toronto https://wowa.ca/average-income-canada#Toronto . Combine it with the cost of accommodation and you get an idea.
      - jvnnmfjvfjvflkj 4y ago
        A single meal at McDonald's is still pricier. What junk food is cheaper?
        FpUser 4y ago
kergonath 4y ago
It is also xenophobic to believe that Chinese are not able to design junk by themselves. They have a huge internal market and have a lot of reasons to do so. Also, a lot of the junk in question is white label, with pretty much no western engineer or designer involved even when it is sold in the US or Europe. But the bottom line is, it is junk that comes from China, ergo Chinese junk.
- winrid 4y ago
  I'm sure they do. But the junk comes from many places, and the responsibility is on the companies here. I just think calling it Chinese Junk is hiding the blame. Look at my fridgidaire fridge and dishwasher - both recently broke at the same time after a few years. Both top of the line consumer models. They're still made in the US, but they're disposable junk sold at the homeless despot. The fridge is $2k, but has the same cheap components from $400 fridges. Cost cutting is everywhere. Hold the right people accountable, IMO.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  Much of the really well made stuff that we buy here in the US also comes from China. They are now quite capable of very high end manufacturing as well.
  - rascul 4y ago
    I tell people this sometimes but the market is so saturated with the cheap junk that people don't often believe me.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      I usually use iPhone or MacBooks as examples.
      - rascul 4y ago
        I thought they were mostly built in South Korea and Taiwan. I don't usually pay much attention to the Apple world, though.
lkramer 4y ago
It the same way that "Made in Japan" or "Made in Taiwan" used to be a label for cheap knock offs. Over time, as China shifts their economy, it will probably change, but right now "Made in China" have a certain connotation, and it becomes an easy shorthand for the disposable crap that fills our stores.
wrp 4y ago
China is in the special position of having both a great industrial capacity for complex products and at the same time being the main source of complex products that are poorly designed/constructed. So referring to "Chinese junk" identifies an objective economic phenomenon and is not simply a product of prejudice. "Chinese junk" can also be used as a term of criticism for a tendency among Chinese suppliers to dishonestly skimp on quality. Hearing of the many troubles American companies have with suppliers in China, this seems to be a valid criticism. However, having worked in the Middle East, I can testify that this problem can be as bad or worse elsewhere. It is noted than Japan had a similar reputation in the early 20th century, and I think Switzerland also had a reputation for poor quality in the 19th century. In both cases, the governments started programs to change things. There is desire within China to change their reputation. I've read that Alibaba is actively trying not to be seen as a venue for selling "Chinese junk."
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"being the main source of complex products that are poorly designed/constructed" It is also the main source of complex products of high quality. Problem is the price. Where it matters I buy industrial grade stuff for home use. It works for ages. But it also priced accordingly. Canadians with median income and below simply can not afford quality stuff. Meanwhile, not sure about the rest of the world, but my personal impression is that in Canada general public mostly thinks that Chinese only steal, copy and produce nothing but junk and are not capable of anything else. So yes it is racist / xenophobe attitude in my opinion.
fennecfoxy 4y ago
It took them until 2017 to be able to make a fully homegrown ballpoint pen: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/18/finally-china-manufactures-a-ballpoint-pen-all-by-itself/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/18... Yes it is Chinese junk if it is junk and manufactured in China - they have created an entirely new economy just for this stuff. And "xenophobic" is just a nicer way to call someone racist. It was a smart move on China's behalf to produce this junk, they have most of the world's manufacturing.

by winrid 4y ago

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

valleyer 4y ago

I think it's a bit harsh to call them xenophobic, but I did have a similar thought recently. What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
winrid 4y ago
Maybe it was harsh. However I think it makes the Chinese people look bad, where they aren't really to blame. The CCP keeps labor prices low, and we exploit it, and then we sit here and complain the stuff they make is junk.
- em500 4y ago
  Labor prices are much lower in India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines among others, than they are in China. So there is a bit more to the story than "the CCP keeps labor prices low".
- wkat4242 4y ago
  > Maybe it was harsh. However I think it makes the Chinese people look bad, where they aren't really to blame. The CCP keeps labor prices low, and we exploit it, and then we sit here and complain the stuff they make is junk. When someone says "Chinese junk" you're not really insulting the people IMO. Just the cheap grade disposable crap you can find in corner bazaars. That stuff that breaks after 2 uses. Like someone else said, in the 80s "made in Taiwan" was a rubbing joke and before that Japan. But it has nothing to do with the people, just the phase their industry is in. It's like people here in Europe saying American cars are gas guzzlers (which they mostly are compared to EU models). You wouldn't take that personally.
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  The cost of labor has increased a lot in China and hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty. Perhaps other choices could do an even better job but certainly a far worse policies could be instituted.
FpUser 4y ago
>"What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?" Thanks to modern economy in Canada for example people with median and below income currently can't afford to buy anything but junk. Same goes for quality food. Price of accommodation, food and many other things have skyrocketed. This is what is "worse"
- gotorazor 4y ago
  Just did a trip to Loblaws in Toronto yesterday. I disagree. Organic groceries -- sure -- median income people can't really afford it. The traditional, raw items common to the Anglo-Irish diet like potatoes, corn, flour, butter, cabbage, etc are super cheap in Canada. Meat pricing has been super challenging since the pandemic started. Canada don't really have the same kind of agricultural subsidies that the United States has. Buying a bag of doritos isn't cheaper than a bag of potatoes. Nor, a big mac cheaper than raw ground beef.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    >"potatoes, corn, flour, butter, ... doritos" Making those your main source is highly unhealthy. It does not matter if it is called "Anglo-Irish". Greens, veggies, decent fruits, meat, fish - through the roof. In Loblaws in particular as I often shop in one. Vine tomatoes - $5 (used to pay $2). Fucking green onions - $2 for pathetic bunch (used to pay $0.5 for a bunch at least 3 times as big). Smaller box of mixed greens - $6 (used to pay $3-$3.50). Etc. etc. All of this regular, never mind organic. Meanwhile median income in Toronto is just below 40K - https://wowa.ca/average-income-canada#Toronto https://wowa.ca/average-income-canada#Toronto . Combine it with the cost of accommodation and you get an idea.
    - jvnnmfjvfjvflkj 4y ago
      A single meal at McDonald's is still pricier. What junk food is cheaper?
      - FpUser 4y ago

kergonath 4y ago

It is also xenophobic to believe that Chinese are not able to design junk by themselves. They have a huge internal market and have a lot of reasons to do so. Also, a lot of the junk in question is white label, with pretty much no western engineer or designer involved even when it is sold in the US or Europe. But the bottom line is, it is junk that comes from China, ergo Chinese junk.

winrid 4y ago
I'm sure they do. But the junk comes from many places, and the responsibility is on the companies here. I just think calling it Chinese Junk is hiding the blame. Look at my fridgidaire fridge and dishwasher - both recently broke at the same time after a few years. Both top of the line consumer models. They're still made in the US, but they're disposable junk sold at the homeless despot. The fridge is $2k, but has the same cheap components from $400 fridges. Cost cutting is everywhere. Hold the right people accountable, IMO.
jjeaff 4y ago
Much of the really well made stuff that we buy here in the US also comes from China. They are now quite capable of very high end manufacturing as well.
- rascul 4y ago
  I tell people this sometimes but the market is so saturated with the cheap junk that people don't often believe me.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    I usually use iPhone or MacBooks as examples.
    - rascul 4y ago
      I thought they were mostly built in South Korea and Taiwan. I don't usually pay much attention to the Apple world, though.

lkramer 4y ago

It the same way that "Made in Japan" or "Made in Taiwan" used to be a label for cheap knock offs. Over time, as China shifts their economy, it will probably change, but right now "Made in China" have a certain connotation, and it becomes an easy shorthand for the disposable crap that fills our stores.

wrp 4y ago

China is in the special position of having both a great industrial capacity for complex products and at the same time being the main source of complex products that are poorly designed/constructed. So referring to "Chinese junk" identifies an objective economic phenomenon and is not simply a product of prejudice. "Chinese junk" can also be used as a term of criticism for a tendency among Chinese suppliers to dishonestly skimp on quality. Hearing of the many troubles American companies have with suppliers in China, this seems to be a valid criticism. However, having worked in the Middle East, I can testify that this problem can be as bad or worse elsewhere. It is noted than Japan had a similar reputation in the early 20th century, and I think Switzerland also had a reputation for poor quality in the 19th century. In both cases, the governments started programs to change things. There is desire within China to change their reputation. I've read that Alibaba is actively trying not to be seen as a venue for selling "Chinese junk."

FpUser 4y ago
>"being the main source of complex products that are poorly designed/constructed" It is also the main source of complex products of high quality. Problem is the price. Where it matters I buy industrial grade stuff for home use. It works for ages. But it also priced accordingly. Canadians with median income and below simply can not afford quality stuff. Meanwhile, not sure about the rest of the world, but my personal impression is that in Canada general public mostly thinks that Chinese only steal, copy and produce nothing but junk and are not capable of anything else. So yes it is racist / xenophobe attitude in my opinion.

fennecfoxy 4y ago

It took them until 2017 to be able to make a fully homegrown ballpoint pen: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/18/finally-china-manufactures-a-ballpoint-pen-all-by-itself/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/18... Yes it is Chinese junk if it is junk and manufactured in China - they have created an entirely new economy just for this stuff. And "xenophobic" is just a nicer way to call someone racist. It was a smart move on China's behalf to produce this junk, they have most of the world's manufacturing.