5 ms·

> The scientific evidence is clear: the only celestial body that can support us is the one we evolved with. I must have missed the evidence. Exactly what were

> The scientific evidence is clear: the only celestial body that can support us is the one we evolved with. I must have missed the evidence. Exactly what were they? Additionally, don't stand in the way of those who wish to boldly go where no-one has gone before.

truculent 4y ago
When going boldly requires shared resources and has knock-on effects for everyone, shouldn't we all have a say?
- pfdietz 4y ago
  No? I mean, if people who have money want to spend it on something like that, why should we have a say? It's their money, not ours. EDIT: ah, the perennial game of rationalizing taking from others when they aren't doing what you want them to do.
  - RGamma 4y ago
    (Edit: Liquid) Wealth represents economic surplus, much of which is gained unsustainably. The least we should expect is that this surplus doesn't also chase pipe dreams, because these have an additional opportunity cost.
    - api 4y ago
      The global perfume industry is about $50 billion. The porn industry is estimated to be between $6 and $15 billion. The NASA budget is $24 billion, so somewhere between porn and perfume. Also much of billionaires' net worth is fictitious paper. You can see this in Musk "losing" $150 billion dollars. That never really existed in the first place. It was leveraged value of things like stocks, not liquid wealth. What actually happened was that Musk's paper net worth was corrected to something a little bit closer to reality (but probably still on the high side). Actual wealth is physical: stuff, industrial capital, generation capacity, farm land, etc. If you magically redistributed paper wealth to everyone in the world you'd just get hyperinflation since there is not enough actual physical wealth to support all of humanity at anything like a "first world" standard. To get there requires probably another 50-100 years of continuous development, this time smarter using more sustainable practices since unsustainable fossil fuel based development can't get there. We could get a settlement on the Moon by spending a little more on space than perfume. It's a rounding error compared to the global economy. If you want to get mad about wasted wealth, get mad about global military budgets and war. That's just blowing shit up and we spend hundreds of times more on that than either space or sustainable development.
      - folkrav 4y ago
        > If you want to get mad about wasted wealth, get mad about global military budgets and war. That's just blowing shit up and we spend hundreds of times more on that than either space or sustainable development. I can't think of a single period in history where there was no war being waged anywhere. As fundamentally non-violent/anti-war I can be, conflict seems inevitable, historically speaking. Getting mad at military spending in this context sounds about as constructive at getting angry at the sky for being blue.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - charles_f 4y ago
        > The global perfume industry is about $50 billion. The porn industry is estimated to be between $6 and $15 billion. The NASA budget is $24 billion, so somewhere between porn and perfume. If you're doing global markets, add to it budgets from the Chinese space program (9b) ESA (~5b), roscosmos (~4b), jaxa (2b). That's an extra 20b that puts it at about perfume
  - folkrav 4y ago
    That's assuming everyone is on board with the very fact of living in a system where an individual can amass hundreds of billions of dollars while almost half the planet lives on a handful of dollars a day or less. I'd guess a good chunk of them would have something to say about that but just cannot.
  - Lutger 4y ago
    > requires shared resources and has knock-on effects > It's their money, not ours No? Does not compute: its our resources and we are the recipient of knock-on effects, not 'they'. For example: if India will decide to geo-engineer their way out of the climate crisis (a bargain, really), I imagine most countries would rather appreciate a consultation _before_ launching the stuff in the sky. Even if its their stuff. So go spend your billions on porn and perfume, but don't act surprised when people protest as you are about to possibly destroy their world.
  - palata 4y ago
    Interesting take. I believe that individuals should not have more money than entire countries. One should simply not be allowed to have too much money. The fact that they are doesn't mean I should accept their polluting my sky.
  - truculent 4y ago
    It’s not just money - how do we manage shared resources like the atmosphere, night sky, and various orbits?
shanebellone 4y ago
I wish more would *boldly walk into a volcano*.
datavirtue 4y ago
Pathogens. Find Earth's twin. Land on it. Die a miserable death shortly thereafter.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
> I must have missed the evidence. Exactly what were they? We haven't found another body yet, let alone one that is within reach. The headline leaves the "yet" out intentionally, to be stronger and goad people into engaging with and reacting to it.
poulpy123 4y ago
> I must have missed the evidence. Exactly what were they? Several centuries of astronomy and biology

truculent 4y ago

When going boldly requires shared resources and has knock-on effects for everyone, shouldn't we all have a say?

pfdietz 4y ago
No? I mean, if people who have money want to spend it on something like that, why should we have a say? It's their money, not ours. EDIT: ah, the perennial game of rationalizing taking from others when they aren't doing what you want them to do.
- RGamma 4y ago
  (Edit: Liquid) Wealth represents economic surplus, much of which is gained unsustainably. The least we should expect is that this surplus doesn't also chase pipe dreams, because these have an additional opportunity cost.
  - api 4y ago
    The global perfume industry is about $50 billion. The porn industry is estimated to be between $6 and $15 billion. The NASA budget is $24 billion, so somewhere between porn and perfume. Also much of billionaires' net worth is fictitious paper. You can see this in Musk "losing" $150 billion dollars. That never really existed in the first place. It was leveraged value of things like stocks, not liquid wealth. What actually happened was that Musk's paper net worth was corrected to something a little bit closer to reality (but probably still on the high side). Actual wealth is physical: stuff, industrial capital, generation capacity, farm land, etc. If you magically redistributed paper wealth to everyone in the world you'd just get hyperinflation since there is not enough actual physical wealth to support all of humanity at anything like a "first world" standard. To get there requires probably another 50-100 years of continuous development, this time smarter using more sustainable practices since unsustainable fossil fuel based development can't get there. We could get a settlement on the Moon by spending a little more on space than perfume. It's a rounding error compared to the global economy. If you want to get mad about wasted wealth, get mad about global military budgets and war. That's just blowing shit up and we spend hundreds of times more on that than either space or sustainable development.
    - folkrav 4y ago
      > If you want to get mad about wasted wealth, get mad about global military budgets and war. That's just blowing shit up and we spend hundreds of times more on that than either space or sustainable development. I can't think of a single period in history where there was no war being waged anywhere. As fundamentally non-violent/anti-war I can be, conflict seems inevitable, historically speaking. Getting mad at military spending in this context sounds about as constructive at getting angry at the sky for being blue.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - charles_f 4y ago
      > The global perfume industry is about $50 billion. The porn industry is estimated to be between $6 and $15 billion. The NASA budget is $24 billion, so somewhere between porn and perfume. If you're doing global markets, add to it budgets from the Chinese space program (9b) ESA (~5b), roscosmos (~4b), jaxa (2b). That's an extra 20b that puts it at about perfume
- folkrav 4y ago
  That's assuming everyone is on board with the very fact of living in a system where an individual can amass hundreds of billions of dollars while almost half the planet lives on a handful of dollars a day or less. I'd guess a good chunk of them would have something to say about that but just cannot.
- Lutger 4y ago
  > requires shared resources and has knock-on effects > It's their money, not ours No? Does not compute: its our resources and we are the recipient of knock-on effects, not 'they'. For example: if India will decide to geo-engineer their way out of the climate crisis (a bargain, really), I imagine most countries would rather appreciate a consultation _before_ launching the stuff in the sky. Even if its their stuff. So go spend your billions on porn and perfume, but don't act surprised when people protest as you are about to possibly destroy their world.
- palata 4y ago
  Interesting take. I believe that individuals should not have more money than entire countries. One should simply not be allowed to have too much money. The fact that they are doesn't mean I should accept their polluting my sky.
- truculent 4y ago
  It’s not just money - how do we manage shared resources like the atmosphere, night sky, and various orbits?

shanebellone 4y ago

I wish more would *boldly walk into a volcano*.

datavirtue 4y ago

Pathogens. Find Earth's twin. Land on it. Die a miserable death shortly thereafter.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

> I must have missed the evidence. Exactly what were they? We haven't found another body yet, let alone one that is within reach. The headline leaves the "yet" out intentionally, to be stronger and goad people into engaging with and reacting to it.

poulpy123 4y ago

> I must have missed the evidence. Exactly what were they? Several centuries of astronomy and biology