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> Image 3, Ken Thompson working on the PDP-11 using a Teletype (model 33?). What always struck be about this image is the atrocious ergonomics of … everything.
by rkta 4y ago
> Image 3, Ken Thompson working on the PDP-11 using a Teletype (model 33?). What always struck be about this image is the atrocious ergonomics of … everything. The keyboard, the chair, everything about the posture: it’s all terrible. Inventing Unix almost seems easy compared to dealing with that!
I've seen this photo a hundred times and never thought about that. I wonder when ergonomics started being a thing when designing computer workplaces.
- enriquto 4y agoBrian, on the other hand, has an excellent, powerful posture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0 (see from 4'10). Feet on desk, keyboard on lap, reclined seat, talking about unix filters.
- rkta 4y agoIf you are building an OS and someone is making a movie about it you gonna make sure you look cool. I'm not convinced this is how he worked every day.
- gavindean90 4y agoEveryday? No, sometimes? Probably.
- sn41 4y agoI have always noticed it, since I get a stiff back often. Office furniture has improved by a great deal.
- amelius 4y agoBack then you had to pound on the keys, which made you develop strong hands, like a piano player.
- 082349872349872 4y agoI sometimes wonder if having learned to touch type on mechanicals* has protected me from RSI? * carriage return used to be huge honking lever
- karmakaze 4y agoI'm imagining it on the right side, but it must have been on the left to return the carriage to where the hammers can hit the page at the left margin.
- 082349872349872 4y ago... or you're imagining an RTL typewriter: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2384/6833/products/DSC_0264_f6eeec7f-af1d-4749-8fbd-c80c5252301d_1512x.JPG?v=1550926003 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2384/6833/products/DSC_026...
- hackermatic 4y agoIt depends on the typewriter. The Remington 12 has the carriage return lever on the right side: https://typewriterdatabase.com/Remington.12.42.bmys https://typewriterdatabase.com/Remington.12.42.bmys
- hackermatic 4y agoIf anything, speaking as someone who has RSI and collects typewriters, you've been spared despite them. The traditional typewriter keyboard arrangement with rows increasing in vertical height as they move away from you is precisely the opposite of what you want, ergonomically. It's strange to me that so many computer keyboards still have fold-out tabs at the back to emulate this. I even saw an old PS/2 keyboard with terraced rows just like a typewriter! But habit is a powerful thing. Pardon the tangent, but we're using an 1870s design whose main constraints were making room for key levers to travel up and down (which is also why we have staggered keys instead of an ortholinear grid). The funny thing is that there were decades more of alternative typewriter keyboard designs (look up the Hammond 1 for an example), but the first commercially successful typewriter, the Sholes and Glidden, is the one that won out in the end.
- gjvc 4y agoI wonder when ergonomics started being a thing when designing computer workplaces. Look at what Douglas Englebart used for the "mother of all demos"
- kjs3 4y agoRemember that the Teletypes were old school telco, mostly output devices, repurposed for computers. They were constructed first to be extremely durable, and then somewhere way down the list of requirements, easy on the users. The typical use case wasn't to pound on them all day long (tho some did), and you can tell. Seem to recall that ergonomics really took off in the 80s and 90s, as people started suing for things like RSI which made companies start to care. I remember that was when everyone seemed to be swapping out for adjustable chairs and bolting keyboard trays on desks and having everyone take ergo training.
- b112 4y agoThey were constructed first to be extremely durable, and then somewhere way down the list of requirements, easy on the users. I watched this documentary, about a huge computer, just massive, huge, and a guy called Forbin. It showed governement spending out of control, and the ensuing disaster, although I was a bit high at the time, and the plot eluded me. Anyhow, the terminals seemed much nicer than you describe, so maybe it was down to the employer?
- wombatpm 4y agoYou only needed to enter a few commands to process your stack of punch cards so ergonomics didn’t matter
- thaeli 4y agoErgonomics still mattered for making the punch cards in the first place - and the machines for that used similar keyboards.
- rep_lodsb 4y ago"Colossus: The Forbin Project"? Not a documentary though. Military computer joins up with its Soviet counterpart and takes over the world. There may have been some teletypes, but the more memorable output device was the big scrolling line of text. RESTORE COMMUNICATION -- FROM COLOSSUS -- TO GUARDIAN -- OR ACTION WILL BE TAKEN
- jhoechtl 4y agoLink to an image?
- rkta 4y agoIt's image 3 in the linked article.
- reaperducer 4y agoI wonder when ergonomics started being a thing when designing computer workplaces. IME, it was the early to mid 90's. Suddenly there were consultants for everything, and office/ergonomics consultants started popping up. I suspect it's related to the shift to the widespread use of computers in the office. Carpal tunnel syndrome went from obscure to an "everyone knows someone with it" kind of thing. I knew someone who eventually had to wear big arm-length metal braces while using a VT-52. The bean counters figured out that if they made small-money adjustments to their workplaces, they could save big money on health insurance premiums.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]