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This article is about Carbon Engineering: https://carbonengineering.com/ https://carbonengineering.com/ There's also Prometheus Fuels which is a YC company doi

This article is about Carbon Engineering: https://carbonengineering.com/ https://carbonengineering.com/ There's also Prometheus Fuels which is a YC company doing the same thing: https://www.prometheusfuels.com/ https://www.prometheusfuels.com/ The science is sound, but whether the process is economically viable remains to be seen.

ramraj07 4y ago
I’ve been mulling entering carbon sequestration space using biochar but what’s mainly stopping me is the fact that no amount of industrialization can even put a dent in how much new carbon is being introduced every year when now in terms of burning newly pumped fossil fuel.
- rswskg 4y ago
  Isn't biochar more a play for soil protection?
  - ramraj07 4y ago
    Given that it’s pretty hard to reclaim carbon from it I’m thinking it’ll be a great way to just bury it and sell carbon sequestration credits (as a more legitimate sister to carbon credits).
    - saalweachter 4y ago
      What's your charring methodology?
    - gdudeman 4y ago
      I believe Charm industrial is using the biochar process, but producing oil and pumping it into the ground. Even in fields, it’s a solid idea. And like you said, it’s recognized as being a very stable store of carbon for a very long time. The trick is getting feedstock nearby so you aren’t pumping tons of CO2 into the air to acquire, move and process it.
Gwypaas 4y ago
Might make sense for air travel and cross-ocean shipping. Time will tell if pure hydrogen or e-fuels are more economical. Also works as a backup of last resort for power systems through power to gas/x. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-X https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-X
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > Also works as a backup of last resort for power systems through power to gas/x. Yep. The current mode of operation to simply trim the output of solar and wind in case of oversupply is an utter waste when the power could be used in power-to-gas plants.
  - gdudeman 4y ago
    Unfortunately, the cost of building proposed power-to-gas plants is high enough that it doesn’t make economical sense to run them just a few hours a day.
    - primis 4y ago
      Theoretically, if power-to-gas plants can be manufactured at scale, you could make gas generation plants further away from where energy is being consumed. We already have tons of infrastructure on this planet for moving gasoline around. You could also keep ICE engines in use without worrying about their carbon footprint. Excess renewable power turns into fuel to be used in cars, boats, trains (diesel electric freight cars), and airplanes. Using this tech for off peak leveling on the grid might not be cost effective, but it can certainly be used to support the existing infrastructure we have to allow for a more graceful transitional period.
    - marcosdumay 4y ago
      Will the cost stay high in a large scale production? I have never seen an estimate on that, or a plant design detailed enough for extrapolating it. Do you know how those plants are built?
roryisok 4y ago
Solar power wasn't economically viable once, nor was Wind power. Sucking fuel out of the air anywhere you like has to be more viable than sailing out to sea and building a huge rig to drill underwater for pockets of gunk that you then have to refine. Imagine an airport that creates its own fuel instead of needing constant resupply.
- palata 4y ago
  > Sucking fuel out of the air anywhere you like has to be more viable than [...] Pretty sure it absolutely isn't.
  - roryisok 4y ago
    obviously not, right now. but if this tech can be scaled up it would be. yes, it's not a certainty. but solar power was once seen as only useful in space where you couldn't run a diesel engine. Then it got more efficient, and cheaper, and now it is cheapest form of energy per MW on Earth
    - palata 4y ago
      > but if this tech can be scaled up it would be. It's not that it is "not a certainty". It actually seems very unlikely that this could work. > and now it is cheapest form of energy per MW on Earth Thanks to fossil fuels, that have been used at pretty much every step of the process of building and transporting the solar panels. And then it only works with good weather. Not that solar is completely bad, but it does not look like it will be the replacement for fossil fuels. It is not enough to be cheap as a marginal source of energy in a world with cheap fossil fuels. At some point it would need to work on its own...
aaronax 4y ago
Also https://terraformindustries.com/ https://terraformindustries.com/ Discussion of economics: https://terraformindustries.wordpress.com/2023/01/09/terraform-industries-whitepaper-2-0/ https://terraformindustries.wordpress.com/2023/01/09/terrafo... Seems like the natural gas angle may be better due to higher efficiencies of existing equipment (power plants) that burns natural gas. Maybe the same can be done with gasoline? And of course you can't reasonably run a plane on natural gas AFAIK.
- avmich 4y ago
  > And of course you can't reasonably run a plane on natural gas AFAIK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155 , up to 2 hours flight, flew in 1980-s. Not much, but at least a proof of concept.

ramraj07 4y ago

I’ve been mulling entering carbon sequestration space using biochar but what’s mainly stopping me is the fact that no amount of industrialization can even put a dent in how much new carbon is being introduced every year when now in terms of burning newly pumped fossil fuel.

rswskg 4y ago
Isn't biochar more a play for soil protection?
- ramraj07 4y ago
  Given that it’s pretty hard to reclaim carbon from it I’m thinking it’ll be a great way to just bury it and sell carbon sequestration credits (as a more legitimate sister to carbon credits).
  - saalweachter 4y ago
    What's your charring methodology?
  - gdudeman 4y ago
    I believe Charm industrial is using the biochar process, but producing oil and pumping it into the ground. Even in fields, it’s a solid idea. And like you said, it’s recognized as being a very stable store of carbon for a very long time. The trick is getting feedstock nearby so you aren’t pumping tons of CO2 into the air to acquire, move and process it.

Gwypaas 4y ago

Might make sense for air travel and cross-ocean shipping. Time will tell if pure hydrogen or e-fuels are more economical. Also works as a backup of last resort for power systems through power to gas/x. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-X https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-X

mschuster91 4y ago
> Also works as a backup of last resort for power systems through power to gas/x. Yep. The current mode of operation to simply trim the output of solar and wind in case of oversupply is an utter waste when the power could be used in power-to-gas plants.
- gdudeman 4y ago
  Unfortunately, the cost of building proposed power-to-gas plants is high enough that it doesn’t make economical sense to run them just a few hours a day.
  - primis 4y ago
    Theoretically, if power-to-gas plants can be manufactured at scale, you could make gas generation plants further away from where energy is being consumed. We already have tons of infrastructure on this planet for moving gasoline around. You could also keep ICE engines in use without worrying about their carbon footprint. Excess renewable power turns into fuel to be used in cars, boats, trains (diesel electric freight cars), and airplanes. Using this tech for off peak leveling on the grid might not be cost effective, but it can certainly be used to support the existing infrastructure we have to allow for a more graceful transitional period.
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    Will the cost stay high in a large scale production? I have never seen an estimate on that, or a plant design detailed enough for extrapolating it. Do you know how those plants are built?

roryisok 4y ago

Solar power wasn't economically viable once, nor was Wind power. Sucking fuel out of the air anywhere you like has to be more viable than sailing out to sea and building a huge rig to drill underwater for pockets of gunk that you then have to refine. Imagine an airport that creates its own fuel instead of needing constant resupply.

palata 4y ago
> Sucking fuel out of the air anywhere you like has to be more viable than [...] Pretty sure it absolutely isn't.
- roryisok 4y ago
  obviously not, right now. but if this tech can be scaled up it would be. yes, it's not a certainty. but solar power was once seen as only useful in space where you couldn't run a diesel engine. Then it got more efficient, and cheaper, and now it is cheapest form of energy per MW on Earth
  - palata 4y ago
    > but if this tech can be scaled up it would be. It's not that it is "not a certainty". It actually seems very unlikely that this could work. > and now it is cheapest form of energy per MW on Earth Thanks to fossil fuels, that have been used at pretty much every step of the process of building and transporting the solar panels. And then it only works with good weather. Not that solar is completely bad, but it does not look like it will be the replacement for fossil fuels. It is not enough to be cheap as a marginal source of energy in a world with cheap fossil fuels. At some point it would need to work on its own...

aaronax 4y ago

Also https://terraformindustries.com/ https://terraformindustries.com/ Discussion of economics: https://terraformindustries.wordpress.com/2023/01/09/terraform-industries-whitepaper-2-0/ https://terraformindustries.wordpress.com/2023/01/09/terrafo... Seems like the natural gas angle may be better due to higher efficiencies of existing equipment (power plants) that burns natural gas. Maybe the same can be done with gasoline? And of course you can't reasonably run a plane on natural gas AFAIK.

avmich 4y ago
> And of course you can't reasonably run a plane on natural gas AFAIK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155 , up to 2 hours flight, flew in 1980-s. Not much, but at least a proof of concept.