11 ms·

I imagine I will very much regret commenting here. When the pandemic began, I left a few comments with home healthcare tips, like how to do lung clearance. Peo

I imagine I will very much regret commenting here. When the pandemic began, I left a few comments with home healthcare tips, like how to do lung clearance. People attacked me and accused me of practicing medicine without a license. At some point, I went looking for an officially recommended list of OTC drugs for covid. I couldn't find any such thing online. Healthcare shouldn't really be used to mean medical care. I think it's a mistake to treat those as synonyms. Diet, exercise and lifestyle choices are all part of caring for your health. We could include grocery stores, restaurants and gyms as part of the "Healthcare Industry" though they certainly aren't part of the medical industry. I think it was a huge missed opportunity that no official health organizations, like the CDC, put together tips of a sort I naively tried to share as someone with a serious condition who therefore has no choice but to do a lot of medical-like healthcare things at home. I was shocked at how hostile people were to that. Because of that, I've mostly opted to say little about this topic. People are scared, etc and I didn't want to become a target. But the mistake we made here was relying too heavily on the medical industry and not leveraging the internet as the perfect first line of defense for sharing good info without sharing germs.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
I largely agree. Healthcare in the general sense isn't something that you can Outsource efficiently. While this is true in the obvious sense of diet exercise and behavior, it is also true in terms of medical care. Doctors and medical databases are not a complete alternative to taking ownership and responsibility or understanding your medical needs and history. You wouldn't expect a home contractor to know everything after visiting a 50-year-old house for 30 minutes. As a homeowner, it is your job too collect information over time and synthesize the advice of experts
spfzero 4y ago
Totally agree with you.
LarsDu88 4y ago
The internet as a source of home remedies wrought gross misinformation like ivermectin, chloroquine, and a host of other bad advice that got people killed. There's a reason lots of medical professionals dissuade people from relying on the internet for medical advice, and it's not some vast corporate conspiracy.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  That's a literacy issue. Internet literacy can be taught. If the CDC or NIH had posted established and well-developed protocols for things like lung clearance, then you educate people that "Ivermectin is not being recommended by reliable sources. Here are the home care recommendations from reliable sources." Lung clearance at home is not some concept I invented. It gets routinely prescribed and taught for patients with serious, incurable lung issues.
  - Traubenfuchs 4y ago
    > "Ivermectin is not being recommended by reliable sources. Adding to that all communications regarding ivermectin and other crazy people miracle drugs, it should have been communicated that "Ivermectin is generally safe for human consumption. Ivermectin is highly dangerous if taken in single dosages above xxx mg/kg or longer than yyy days. There must be at least zzz hours between individual dosages of Ivermectin. Do not take more than vvv mg/kg a day. If you violate any of the advice given here, side effects might include: x, y, z, allergic shock, death, neurotoxicity." Instead those hell bent on taking it were ridiculed and ostracized, taking it in secret and an uncontrolled fashion. They could have been both forced and allowed to get in in pharmacies, with the condition of them also taking an information pamphlet or something -instead they went for more difficult to dose formulation directed at large animals.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - pjc50 4y ago
      If you ask a pharmacy about off-label use of a drug, they are going to tell you "no", not to advise you how to take something you don't need. It might even be a breach of their license conditions to do otherwise.
      - DoreenMichele 4y ago
        20 percent of all prescriptions are written for uses not approved by the FDA. https://www.drugwatch.com/health/off-label-drug-use/ https://www.drugwatch.com/health/off-label-drug-use/
Dalewyn 4y ago
I feel the covid fearmongering by governments, medical companies, medical authorities, and the media has made public discourse in general (let alone specifically medical) even more prohibitive. Today, we aren't supposed to question or otherwise so much as discuss something if it goes against or strays from any established narratives. At one point, so much as uttering the word "corona" could get you silenced by the powers-that-be regardless of the context. This is all ridiculous because the foundation of science (protip: medicine is a science) is to always remain skeptical and engage in rich discourse. Blind trust in science is no different from worshipping a religion or cult. We are the Galileo against the Church's Geocentric Model, but far more precarious and farther gone.
- pjc50 4y ago
  Running about 6.7 million dead so far, so there's little tolerance for fantasists. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  - bluescrn 4y ago
    Fewer than 1 in 1000, mostly elderly, on a planet of almost 8 billion. Obviously not good, but it's not apocalyptic either. (Not bad enough to justify writing off 'freedom' as an awful selfish far-right concept that should be purged from society entirely?)
    - onion2k 4y ago
      Obviously not good, but it's not apocalyptic either. That's the death count with the measures put in place. If C-19 hadn't been taken as seriously as it was then you might be adding a zero to that death count. Maybe two.
      - iso1631 4y ago
        [flagged]
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
People dislike being reminded of there mortality. And if they need to be reminded (because for example they are sick), they want to seperate this extraordinary state out into something seperate, far away were it can be put out of mind once the "normal" state, aka assumed-immortality returns. Your attempt for continous integration of health care breaks down that barrier. For you its not a problem, as you are reminded of mortal frailty every day, but for a lot of people that is a scary prospect, they try to yell out there lifes.
bayesian_horse 4y ago
There is no officilly recommended (or even useful) OTC drug for covid. Maybe you can treat mild symptoms with NSAIDs and similar. Nothing of what you are saying is helpful beyond the official advice given by doctors and public health sources and even the media. You vastly overestimate your knowledge of the topic.
- pjc50 4y ago
  There is now Paxlovid, but that's a relatively new drug. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-paxlovid/patient-information-leaflet-for-paxlovid https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approv... Lung clearance is something that's been taught to asthmatics and people with chronic pneumonia for a long time. I don't know about its effects on your absolute chances of survival but it could make you significantly less uncomfortable.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  > There is no officilly recommended (or even useful) OTC drug for covid. Maybe you can treat mild symptoms with NSAIDs and similar. I gathered that was the point of GP. > You vastly overestimate your knowledge of the topic. This statement can only be made by someone who believes they have more knowledge. I fail to see how you do though, who provided no concrete argument against any of the points in GP.
- simonsarris 4y ago
  That's not true, there have been several medical center drug lists since mid 2020, with the most(?) popular probably being the one shared by the Eastern Virginia Medical School which they began in Jul 2020 and kept updating. Here's a snapshot of it: (formatting compactly to save space) Suggested approach to prophylaxis and treatment of COVID-19 Prophylaxis While there is very limited data (and none specific for COVID-19), the following “cocktail” may have a role in the prevention/mitigation of COVID-19 disease, especially amongst the most vulnerable citizens in our community; i.e. those over the age of 60 years and those with medical comorbidities. While there is no high level evidence that this cocktail is effective; it is cheap, safe and should be readily available. So what is there to lose? • Vitamin C 500 mg BID and Quercetin 250-500 mg BID • Zinc 75-100 mg/day (acetate, gluconate or picolinate). Zinc lozenges are preferred. After 1-2 months, reduce the dose to 30-50 mg/day. • Melatonin (slow release): Begin with 0.3mg and increase as tolerated to 1-2 mg at night • Vitamin D3 1000-4000 u/day (optimal dose unknown). Likely that those with baseline low 25- OH vitamin D levels and those > living at 40o latitude will benefit the most. Mildly Symptomatic patients (on floor): • Vitamin C 500mg BID and Quercetin 250-500 mg BID (if available) • Zinc 75-100 mg/day • Melatonin 6-12 mg at night (the optimal dose is unknown) • Vitamin D3 1000-4000 u/day • Enoxaparin 40-60mg day (if not contraindicated; dose adjust with CrCl < 30ml/min) • Optional (and if available): Chloroquine 500 mg PO BID for 5 days or hydroxychloroquine 400mg BID day 1 followed by 200mg BID for 4 days • Observe closely. • N/C 2L /min if required (max 4 L/min; consider early t/f to ICU for escalation of care). • Avoid Nebulization and Respiratory treatments. Use “Spinhaler” or MDI and spacer if required. • Avoid non-invasive ventilation • T/f EARLY to the ICU for increasing respiratory signs/symptoms. https://srpc.ca/resources/Documents/COVID-19%20Resources/Clinical%20Assessment%20and%20decision-making%20tools/Treatment/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf.pdf https://srpc.ca/resources/Documents/COVID-19%20Resources/Cli...
asah 4y ago
Lung clearing is a big deal. My dad (asthmatic) taught me at a young age and it's been very helpful, including when i got COVID while traveling and wanted to avoid a hospital trip. Holistic and personalized health-care remains in its infancy, i can forgive skeptics.
tsukurimashou 4y ago
thank you for doing this
FlyingSnake 4y ago
2020 was different, we didn't have all the information that we've now at our finger tips. I agree with you that diet, exercise and lifestyle choices are all part of caring for your health Here in Germany there is a general focus on avoiding medical intervention as much as possible unless required. So much so that "Camille tea and hot pack" is a meme for healthcare here.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  FYI: Kamille = chamomile
  - FlyingSnake 4y ago
    Genau
- Semaphor 4y ago
  Gargling sage tea for everything respiratory (I did that the one time I caught covid as well, only went to the doctor for the sickness slip), drinking ginger tea when coughing, a lot of sleep. Pretty much my treatment for almost every sickness I had in the last 5 years. My wife is from USA-like South Africa and thinks you need some kind of pharmaceutical for everything and us Germans are crazy ;)
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    It's fairly similar in Japan. Japanese doctors are super adverse to prescribing anything, even painkillers after some type of accident, it's rare they will give you anything, even if your leg is broken. When I was there I didn't mind it personally, but it's hard to get good drugs if you do require them.
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      > it's rare they will give you anything, even if your leg is broken. Wow. And people think German doctors are extreme :D
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cmsonger 4y ago
> At some point, I went looking for an officially recommended list of OTC drugs for covid. I think COVID is perhaps different than other health and medical topics. The key factor about COVID-19 is that 3 years ago we knew pretty much nothing other than: "People are going to the hospital, not thinking they are starved for oxygen, but are posting horrible O2 numbers. Vents keep them alive a while, but lots of them die." Seems pretty obvious that "the longer medicine has had to explore something, the more medicine can separate the wheat from the chaff." And even then when incidence is low: Are you sure that exposing the patient to the 24 hour healing property of pink light saved them, or were they one of these folks who would pull through anyway. Maybe worth a listen: https://radiolab.org/episodes/312245-rodney-versus-death https://radiolab.org/episodes/312245-rodney-versus-death As to the first "citizen medic" hypothesis, I think this already is in place for lots of established conditions. Perhaps not to the degree it should be, but I can certainly know when to use an ice pack or a heating pad, when to take aspirin, and can go get CPR certified. As to the "holistic view of heath" perhaps there was a mixed messaging opportunity, but at least here in the US it was hardly the worst missed messaging opportunity. They totally whiffed on masking messaging. The internet is a fine place to exchange information on understood things. The internet is a horrible place to exchange information on poorly understood things that science is focusing on because the internet mob is not science minded and the mediums we use to have these discussions are monetized for attention. "We don't know yet" is not an interesting answer from the "company gets paid for attention" point of view.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  > and can go get CPR certified. In many places this is free (or dirt cheap) along with "stop the bleed" (in the US), certified first aid courses, etc. Realistically there is no reason to not take some basic first aid course. You hope you never will need it... But its better than flapping when/if something does happen. A lot of people I've met are incapable of even cleaning and covering a small wound, so they go clog up the ER.
- andrepd 4y ago
  >The internet is a fine place to exchange information on understood things. Is it even? Social media algorithms distort things to such a degree that even "understood things" are not safe.
Quindecillion 4y ago
> I was shocked at how hostile people were to that. Was the hostility experienced here on HN? I've come to learn that HN is far more hostile and toxic than I'd first realised.
pibechorro 4y ago
People want pills to fix their poor life choices. The best thing for yourself and the country as a whole is sleep, regular cardio, regular lifting, regular sunshine and fresh air, cooking all your meals from scratch with whole (ideally local and in season) ingredients and mostly elimination of all refined products like sugar. But we normalized obesity.
- nus07 4y ago
  I used to do that until I moved to US. Now the stress of working long hours, constant anxiety of layoffs, working on next cutting edge tech, raising a kid without any family or community help, constant fear of losing healthcare insurance leaves me exhausted. I don’t have time to cook, exercise or sleep well. I guess that is the American dream.
  - bequanna 4y ago
    I see what you’re trying to do, but everything you list is the result of personal lifestyle choices. It is unfortunate that you’re having a difficult time but where you live and work is completely up to you.
    - afarviral 4y ago
      It may not be a conscious choice but an unconscious belief about themselves, such as that they are not productive enough, or that their feelings are not valid.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
      This individualism logic is borderline propaganda. It is not a “personal lifestyle choice” to have children. Children are a biological necessity if we want to continue as a species. The fact that society doesn’t support healthy parenting is not an individual failure, but a failure of society. Similarly, it is not a “personal lifestyle choice” to live in economic insecurity due to layoffs. It’s the fault of corporate greed coming back to bite corporations and instead of the executives responsible paying for it, it’s the employees that had no decision making power. We are not individuals with some godly ability to warp reality to fit our health. We are all subject to a society that isn’t incentivized to prioritize the wholistic health of the people living in it.
cadlin 4y ago
If anyone is interested in the thread in question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22640905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22640905 I bookmarked it at the time, as I was worried about the hospital system collapsing where I lived like it had in northern Italy.
mansoon 4y ago
Eh. My job is going to destroy my health anyway. Why pretend I have agency here?
afarviral 4y ago
Along similar lines, taking cautious mental health steps like learning about bounderies and emotional coping/regulation would help people to look after themselves physically (e.g. not drinking or eating their feelings). Being your own psychologist has risks, so counselling is a good alternative.
908B64B197 4y ago
> People attacked me and accused me of practicing medicine without a license. > We could include grocery stores, restaurants and gyms as part of the "Healthcare Industry" though they certainly aren't part of the medical industry. How is this even a controversial opinion?
bradknowles 4y ago
Regretfully, the Internet has long since been weaponized as a place of discord and hatred and disinformation, especially by parties that want to profit off the war on women, the war on children, the war on science, the war on actual truth and real facts, and the war between radical conservatives and ... everyone else? It's really hard for good basic information on how to take care of yourself and your loved ones to survive in that kind of environment. Unfortunately in the world we live in today, "truthiness" wins over real truth. "Alternative facts" win over real facts. And real honest and open discussion of these issues is also dead, thanks to partisanship, Puritanism, and extreme nationalism. Not to mention profiteering.

s1artibartfast 4y ago

I largely agree. Healthcare in the general sense isn't something that you can Outsource efficiently. While this is true in the obvious sense of diet exercise and behavior, it is also true in terms of medical care. Doctors and medical databases are not a complete alternative to taking ownership and responsibility or understanding your medical needs and history. You wouldn't expect a home contractor to know everything after visiting a 50-year-old house for 30 minutes. As a homeowner, it is your job too collect information over time and synthesize the advice of experts

spfzero 4y ago

Totally agree with you.

LarsDu88 4y ago

The internet as a source of home remedies wrought gross misinformation like ivermectin, chloroquine, and a host of other bad advice that got people killed. There's a reason lots of medical professionals dissuade people from relying on the internet for medical advice, and it's not some vast corporate conspiracy.

DoreenMichele 4y ago
That's a literacy issue. Internet literacy can be taught. If the CDC or NIH had posted established and well-developed protocols for things like lung clearance, then you educate people that "Ivermectin is not being recommended by reliable sources. Here are the home care recommendations from reliable sources." Lung clearance at home is not some concept I invented. It gets routinely prescribed and taught for patients with serious, incurable lung issues.
- Traubenfuchs 4y ago
  > "Ivermectin is not being recommended by reliable sources. Adding to that all communications regarding ivermectin and other crazy people miracle drugs, it should have been communicated that "Ivermectin is generally safe for human consumption. Ivermectin is highly dangerous if taken in single dosages above xxx mg/kg or longer than yyy days. There must be at least zzz hours between individual dosages of Ivermectin. Do not take more than vvv mg/kg a day. If you violate any of the advice given here, side effects might include: x, y, z, allergic shock, death, neurotoxicity." Instead those hell bent on taking it were ridiculed and ostracized, taking it in secret and an uncontrolled fashion. They could have been both forced and allowed to get in in pharmacies, with the condition of them also taking an information pamphlet or something -instead they went for more difficult to dose formulation directed at large animals.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pjc50 4y ago
    If you ask a pharmacy about off-label use of a drug, they are going to tell you "no", not to advise you how to take something you don't need. It might even be a breach of their license conditions to do otherwise.
    - DoreenMichele 4y ago
      20 percent of all prescriptions are written for uses not approved by the FDA. https://www.drugwatch.com/health/off-label-drug-use/ https://www.drugwatch.com/health/off-label-drug-use/

Dalewyn 4y ago

I feel the covid fearmongering by governments, medical companies, medical authorities, and the media has made public discourse in general (let alone specifically medical) even more prohibitive. Today, we aren't supposed to question or otherwise so much as discuss something if it goes against or strays from any established narratives. At one point, so much as uttering the word "corona" could get you silenced by the powers-that-be regardless of the context. This is all ridiculous because the foundation of science (protip: medicine is a science) is to always remain skeptical and engage in rich discourse. Blind trust in science is no different from worshipping a religion or cult. We are the Galileo against the Church's Geocentric Model, but far more precarious and farther gone.

pjc50 4y ago
Running about 6.7 million dead so far, so there's little tolerance for fantasists. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
- bluescrn 4y ago
  Fewer than 1 in 1000, mostly elderly, on a planet of almost 8 billion. Obviously not good, but it's not apocalyptic either. (Not bad enough to justify writing off 'freedom' as an awful selfish far-right concept that should be purged from society entirely?)
  - onion2k 4y ago
    Obviously not good, but it's not apocalyptic either. That's the death count with the measures put in place. If C-19 hadn't been taken as seriously as it was then you might be adding a zero to that death count. Maybe two.
    - iso1631 4y ago
      [flagged]

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

People dislike being reminded of there mortality. And if they need to be reminded (because for example they are sick), they want to seperate this extraordinary state out into something seperate, far away were it can be put out of mind once the "normal" state, aka assumed-immortality returns. Your attempt for continous integration of health care breaks down that barrier. For you its not a problem, as you are reminded of mortal frailty every day, but for a lot of people that is a scary prospect, they try to yell out there lifes.

bayesian_horse 4y ago

There is no officilly recommended (or even useful) OTC drug for covid. Maybe you can treat mild symptoms with NSAIDs and similar. Nothing of what you are saying is helpful beyond the official advice given by doctors and public health sources and even the media. You vastly overestimate your knowledge of the topic.

pjc50 4y ago
There is now Paxlovid, but that's a relatively new drug. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-paxlovid/patient-information-leaflet-for-paxlovid https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approv... Lung clearance is something that's been taught to asthmatics and people with chronic pneumonia for a long time. I don't know about its effects on your absolute chances of survival but it could make you significantly less uncomfortable.
throwaway290 4y ago
> There is no officilly recommended (or even useful) OTC drug for covid. Maybe you can treat mild symptoms with NSAIDs and similar. I gathered that was the point of GP. > You vastly overestimate your knowledge of the topic. This statement can only be made by someone who believes they have more knowledge. I fail to see how you do though, who provided no concrete argument against any of the points in GP.
simonsarris 4y ago
That's not true, there have been several medical center drug lists since mid 2020, with the most(?) popular probably being the one shared by the Eastern Virginia Medical School which they began in Jul 2020 and kept updating. Here's a snapshot of it: (formatting compactly to save space) Suggested approach to prophylaxis and treatment of COVID-19 Prophylaxis While there is very limited data (and none specific for COVID-19), the following “cocktail” may have a role in the prevention/mitigation of COVID-19 disease, especially amongst the most vulnerable citizens in our community; i.e. those over the age of 60 years and those with medical comorbidities. While there is no high level evidence that this cocktail is effective; it is cheap, safe and should be readily available. So what is there to lose? • Vitamin C 500 mg BID and Quercetin 250-500 mg BID • Zinc 75-100 mg/day (acetate, gluconate or picolinate). Zinc lozenges are preferred. After 1-2 months, reduce the dose to 30-50 mg/day. • Melatonin (slow release): Begin with 0.3mg and increase as tolerated to 1-2 mg at night • Vitamin D3 1000-4000 u/day (optimal dose unknown). Likely that those with baseline low 25- OH vitamin D levels and those > living at 40o latitude will benefit the most. Mildly Symptomatic patients (on floor): • Vitamin C 500mg BID and Quercetin 250-500 mg BID (if available) • Zinc 75-100 mg/day • Melatonin 6-12 mg at night (the optimal dose is unknown) • Vitamin D3 1000-4000 u/day • Enoxaparin 40-60mg day (if not contraindicated; dose adjust with CrCl < 30ml/min) • Optional (and if available): Chloroquine 500 mg PO BID for 5 days or hydroxychloroquine 400mg BID day 1 followed by 200mg BID for 4 days • Observe closely. • N/C 2L /min if required (max 4 L/min; consider early t/f to ICU for escalation of care). • Avoid Nebulization and Respiratory treatments. Use “Spinhaler” or MDI and spacer if required. • Avoid non-invasive ventilation • T/f EARLY to the ICU for increasing respiratory signs/symptoms. https://srpc.ca/resources/Documents/COVID-19%20Resources/Clinical%20Assessment%20and%20decision-making%20tools/Treatment/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf.pdf https://srpc.ca/resources/Documents/COVID-19%20Resources/Cli...

asah 4y ago

Lung clearing is a big deal. My dad (asthmatic) taught me at a young age and it's been very helpful, including when i got COVID while traveling and wanted to avoid a hospital trip. Holistic and personalized health-care remains in its infancy, i can forgive skeptics.

tsukurimashou 4y ago

thank you for doing this

FlyingSnake 4y ago

2020 was different, we didn't have all the information that we've now at our finger tips. I agree with you that diet, exercise and lifestyle choices are all part of caring for your health Here in Germany there is a general focus on avoiding medical intervention as much as possible unless required. So much so that "Camille tea and hot pack" is a meme for healthcare here.

DoreenMichele 4y ago
FYI: Kamille = chamomile
- FlyingSnake 4y ago
  Genau
Semaphor 4y ago
Gargling sage tea for everything respiratory (I did that the one time I caught covid as well, only went to the doctor for the sickness slip), drinking ginger tea when coughing, a lot of sleep. Pretty much my treatment for almost every sickness I had in the last 5 years. My wife is from USA-like South Africa and thinks you need some kind of pharmaceutical for everything and us Germans are crazy ;)
- bamboozled 4y ago
  It's fairly similar in Japan. Japanese doctors are super adverse to prescribing anything, even painkillers after some type of accident, it's rare they will give you anything, even if your leg is broken. When I was there I didn't mind it personally, but it's hard to get good drugs if you do require them.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    > it's rare they will give you anything, even if your leg is broken. Wow. And people think German doctors are extreme :D

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

cmsonger 4y ago

> At some point, I went looking for an officially recommended list of OTC drugs for covid. I think COVID is perhaps different than other health and medical topics. The key factor about COVID-19 is that 3 years ago we knew pretty much nothing other than: "People are going to the hospital, not thinking they are starved for oxygen, but are posting horrible O2 numbers. Vents keep them alive a while, but lots of them die." Seems pretty obvious that "the longer medicine has had to explore something, the more medicine can separate the wheat from the chaff." And even then when incidence is low: Are you sure that exposing the patient to the 24 hour healing property of pink light saved them, or were they one of these folks who would pull through anyway. Maybe worth a listen: https://radiolab.org/episodes/312245-rodney-versus-death https://radiolab.org/episodes/312245-rodney-versus-death As to the first "citizen medic" hypothesis, I think this already is in place for lots of established conditions. Perhaps not to the degree it should be, but I can certainly know when to use an ice pack or a heating pad, when to take aspirin, and can go get CPR certified. As to the "holistic view of heath" perhaps there was a mixed messaging opportunity, but at least here in the US it was hardly the worst missed messaging opportunity. They totally whiffed on masking messaging. The internet is a fine place to exchange information on understood things. The internet is a horrible place to exchange information on poorly understood things that science is focusing on because the internet mob is not science minded and the mediums we use to have these discussions are monetized for attention. "We don't know yet" is not an interesting answer from the "company gets paid for attention" point of view.

nibbleshifter 4y ago
> and can go get CPR certified. In many places this is free (or dirt cheap) along with "stop the bleed" (in the US), certified first aid courses, etc. Realistically there is no reason to not take some basic first aid course. You hope you never will need it... But its better than flapping when/if something does happen. A lot of people I've met are incapable of even cleaning and covering a small wound, so they go clog up the ER.
andrepd 4y ago
>The internet is a fine place to exchange information on understood things. Is it even? Social media algorithms distort things to such a degree that even "understood things" are not safe.

Quindecillion 4y ago

> I was shocked at how hostile people were to that. Was the hostility experienced here on HN? I've come to learn that HN is far more hostile and toxic than I'd first realised.

pibechorro 4y ago

People want pills to fix their poor life choices. The best thing for yourself and the country as a whole is sleep, regular cardio, regular lifting, regular sunshine and fresh air, cooking all your meals from scratch with whole (ideally local and in season) ingredients and mostly elimination of all refined products like sugar. But we normalized obesity.

nus07 4y ago
I used to do that until I moved to US. Now the stress of working long hours, constant anxiety of layoffs, working on next cutting edge tech, raising a kid without any family or community help, constant fear of losing healthcare insurance leaves me exhausted. I don’t have time to cook, exercise or sleep well. I guess that is the American dream.
- bequanna 4y ago
  I see what you’re trying to do, but everything you list is the result of personal lifestyle choices. It is unfortunate that you’re having a difficult time but where you live and work is completely up to you.
  - afarviral 4y ago
    It may not be a conscious choice but an unconscious belief about themselves, such as that they are not productive enough, or that their feelings are not valid.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    This individualism logic is borderline propaganda. It is not a “personal lifestyle choice” to have children. Children are a biological necessity if we want to continue as a species. The fact that society doesn’t support healthy parenting is not an individual failure, but a failure of society. Similarly, it is not a “personal lifestyle choice” to live in economic insecurity due to layoffs. It’s the fault of corporate greed coming back to bite corporations and instead of the executives responsible paying for it, it’s the employees that had no decision making power. We are not individuals with some godly ability to warp reality to fit our health. We are all subject to a society that isn’t incentivized to prioritize the wholistic health of the people living in it.

cadlin 4y ago

If anyone is interested in the thread in question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22640905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22640905 I bookmarked it at the time, as I was worried about the hospital system collapsing where I lived like it had in northern Italy.

mansoon 4y ago

Eh. My job is going to destroy my health anyway. Why pretend I have agency here?

afarviral 4y ago

Along similar lines, taking cautious mental health steps like learning about bounderies and emotional coping/regulation would help people to look after themselves physically (e.g. not drinking or eating their feelings). Being your own psychologist has risks, so counselling is a good alternative.

908B64B197 4y ago

> People attacked me and accused me of practicing medicine without a license. > We could include grocery stores, restaurants and gyms as part of the "Healthcare Industry" though they certainly aren't part of the medical industry. How is this even a controversial opinion?

bradknowles 4y ago

Regretfully, the Internet has long since been weaponized as a place of discord and hatred and disinformation, especially by parties that want to profit off the war on women, the war on children, the war on science, the war on actual truth and real facts, and the war between radical conservatives and ... everyone else? It's really hard for good basic information on how to take care of yourself and your loved ones to survive in that kind of environment. Unfortunately in the world we live in today, "truthiness" wins over real truth. "Alternative facts" win over real facts. And real honest and open discussion of these issues is also dead, thanks to partisanship, Puritanism, and extreme nationalism. Not to mention profiteering.