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[flagged]

leokennis 4y ago
I imagine you believe the money you keep with the company known as your bank is yours as well right? Just because it’s a company doesn’t mean they get to behave like assholes and then put the blame on their users for being gullible or ignorant.
- warinukraine 4y ago
  It's mine because the law says so.
- kaashif 4y ago
  I disagree somewhat with what that guy said but your "counterpoint" is ridiculous. Bank deposits are yours! If the bank collapses and can't give them to you, there's FDIC insurance so the government will get you that money. This is nothing at all like Twitter and only weakens your argument.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Twitter is a bank and is stealing deposits? That's a crime.
- ivalm 4y ago
  How does this example supposed to work? When you deposit money you get an asset (an IOU from the bank), while the bank gets money + liability (they are short the IOU). Your property after the deposit is the IOU, not the money (you gave the money away in exchange for the IOU!). There is contract + law that governs how the IOU can be redeemed for money (up to a limit the federal government guarantees some kinds of IOUs via FDIC/etc). Once the bank has your money (for which they gave you the IOU), they in fact can use the money at their own discretion (it is their money!) subject to some legal limitations. Those limitations are not about how banks use other people’s money (because normal banks aren’t custodial), they are limitations based on risk and collaterization of IOUs (the bank’s liabilities). These limitations are not expression of your property rights, they are in fact limitations on bank’s property rights (their freedom to deploy capital) since historically banks were not very responsible and blew up (in which case they failed to cover their liabilities, so IOUs were redeemed for less than their face value). Edit: as an aside, this money => money + IOU + IOU short Is exactly how most of “money” in circulation is produced. People take the IOU and spend it like money, banks take the money and lend it collaterized by houses/factories/etc. So you get people spending more than total cash in circulation (because they spend IOUs), while banks accumulate large IOU short position (again, collaterized through stuff like houses, factories, etc). Nothing bad about this, this is in fact working as intended.
Ensorceled 4y ago
And you're defending the antics of a childish billionaire and blaming the damage on the people he hurt. That's on you.
- warinukraine 4y ago
  I'm defending the right to own property, which is something really fundamental to the way we organize our society. ... and when you say "the people that were hurt"... If you leave your wallet on the street, it might be stolen and you might be hurt. I'm not blaming the victim; someone stealing your wallet is wrong even though you left it on the street. It's not your fault, I'm not blaming you, I blame the thief for the theft. On the other hand there's something that you could've done that would've avoided it - don't leave your wallet on the street.
  - Ensorceled 4y ago
    > I'm defending the right to own property, which is something really fundamental to the way we organize our society. No one is trying to "steal" twitter in this thread, we are saying he used his "property rights" to unnecessarily hurt others. You're the one who is saying this is just peachy keen and "that's on you". You're defending the harm.
    - xupybd 4y ago
      I feel for this guy. He worked on a product for 16 years. A lot goes into that and it becomes part of your identity. Then right at a time close to the loss of his mother it gets shutdown, with no warning. I'd be devastated. That said Elon is not doing this to anyone. He is not attacking anyone. He simply made a business decision. This happens all the time. Companies let suppliers go for financial reasons, they let staff go for similar reasons. People invest their lives into helping these businesses only to find they were let go for a few dollars. It sucks and it's can be super painful. Businesses mostly exist to make money and people should avoid investing their identity and loyalty into businesses as they probably won't reciprocate.
doctor_eval 4y ago
I’m not a Twitter user at all, but the people who have engaged with Twitter over the past few years are the ones who have provided Twitter with its value ($44 billion according to Musk). It’s not because of Elon or the previous shareholders, it’s because of the users. In return for this value, the users got a social ”backyard”. We like to say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but it’s also true that the free lunch is an exchange. ISTM Elon is breaking this agreement.

[flagged]

I imagine you believe the money you keep with the company known as your bank is yours as well right? Just because it’s a company doesn’t mean they get to behave like assholes and then put the blame on their users for being gullible or ignorant.

warinukraine 4y ago
It's mine because the law says so.
kaashif 4y ago
I disagree somewhat with what that guy said but your "counterpoint" is ridiculous. Bank deposits are yours! If the bank collapses and can't give them to you, there's FDIC insurance so the government will get you that money. This is nothing at all like Twitter and only weakens your argument.
pessimizer 4y ago
Twitter is a bank and is stealing deposits? That's a crime.
ivalm 4y ago
How does this example supposed to work? When you deposit money you get an asset (an IOU from the bank), while the bank gets money + liability (they are short the IOU). Your property after the deposit is the IOU, not the money (you gave the money away in exchange for the IOU!). There is contract + law that governs how the IOU can be redeemed for money (up to a limit the federal government guarantees some kinds of IOUs via FDIC/etc). Once the bank has your money (for which they gave you the IOU), they in fact can use the money at their own discretion (it is their money!) subject to some legal limitations. Those limitations are not about how banks use other people’s money (because normal banks aren’t custodial), they are limitations based on risk and collaterization of IOUs (the bank’s liabilities). These limitations are not expression of your property rights, they are in fact limitations on bank’s property rights (their freedom to deploy capital) since historically banks were not very responsible and blew up (in which case they failed to cover their liabilities, so IOUs were redeemed for less than their face value). Edit: as an aside, this money => money + IOU + IOU short Is exactly how most of “money” in circulation is produced. People take the IOU and spend it like money, banks take the money and lend it collaterized by houses/factories/etc. So you get people spending more than total cash in circulation (because they spend IOUs), while banks accumulate large IOU short position (again, collaterized through stuff like houses, factories, etc). Nothing bad about this, this is in fact working as intended.

Ensorceled 4y ago

And you're defending the antics of a childish billionaire and blaming the damage on the people he hurt. That's on you.

warinukraine 4y ago
I'm defending the right to own property, which is something really fundamental to the way we organize our society. ... and when you say "the people that were hurt"... If you leave your wallet on the street, it might be stolen and you might be hurt. I'm not blaming the victim; someone stealing your wallet is wrong even though you left it on the street. It's not your fault, I'm not blaming you, I blame the thief for the theft. On the other hand there's something that you could've done that would've avoided it - don't leave your wallet on the street.
- Ensorceled 4y ago
  > I'm defending the right to own property, which is something really fundamental to the way we organize our society. No one is trying to "steal" twitter in this thread, we are saying he used his "property rights" to unnecessarily hurt others. You're the one who is saying this is just peachy keen and "that's on you". You're defending the harm.
  - xupybd 4y ago
    I feel for this guy. He worked on a product for 16 years. A lot goes into that and it becomes part of your identity. Then right at a time close to the loss of his mother it gets shutdown, with no warning. I'd be devastated. That said Elon is not doing this to anyone. He is not attacking anyone. He simply made a business decision. This happens all the time. Companies let suppliers go for financial reasons, they let staff go for similar reasons. People invest their lives into helping these businesses only to find they were let go for a few dollars. It sucks and it's can be super painful. Businesses mostly exist to make money and people should avoid investing their identity and loyalty into businesses as they probably won't reciprocate.

doctor_eval 4y ago

I’m not a Twitter user at all, but the people who have engaged with Twitter over the past few years are the ones who have provided Twitter with its value ($44 billion according to Musk). It’s not because of Elon or the previous shareholders, it’s because of the users. In return for this value, the users got a social ”backyard”. We like to say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but it’s also true that the free lunch is an exchange. ISTM Elon is breaking this agreement.