8 ms·

Restoring a Vintage Rolex GMT

74 points by stevekemp 4y ago

stevekemp 4y ago
I collect watches, and have an interest in them generally. This is a pretty thorough example of how a watch is disassembled and "restored". (Retitled, against policy, because the original one doesn't summerize it appropriately.)
- coffeebeqn 4y ago
  Why the quotes? Is it similar to other collectibles like coins where you must keep the patina or it loses value? Personally I love these channels where they fix old stuff be it electronic, mechanical or paintings
  - stevekemp 4y ago
    Some people might say that! For me it was a service, rather than a restoration. At least partly because there were no major faults, stripping cleaning, and reassembling was all that was required - and changing a couple of parts. There was nothing wrong, it wasn't broken, so restoration feels like the wrong word to use.
  - albroland 4y ago
    >you must keep the patina or it loses value? That's exactly it, especially among vintage rolex collectors. They have a bunch of slang for describing different ways things have aged eg the tritium paint on the dial having faded into a desirable cream color (creamy lume!), the hand's lume matching (implying it is the original paint on both the dial and hands), the dial itself could have any variety of sun damage like spidering or spotting, and on the GMT's in particular the color on the insert can fade so you might find yourself looking at a "fuchsia GMT". There is also a huge aversion to polishing of any kind. This also can end up creating a lot of drama with Rolex itself if they send the watch in for factory service with instructions that end up not being honored. If you poke around on forums you'll see some very angry customers who specified no polishing, no replacing of worn/patina'd components like hands or dials, who got their watch back with a bunch of factory new parts.
    - JohnBooty 4y ago
      For those not involved in the watch hobby, I'd also like to point out that Rolex collecting is just one particular niche. There are a lot of folks in the hobby who are really passionate about e.g. super affordable Seikos and Casios and don't "graduate" to super pricey stuff. For years, I'd assumed that watch collecting was sort of a money spending contest. Not so. I've found it super welcoming, accessible, and honestly not necessarily expensive. (Though you can certainly spend unlimited amounts of money if you wish
MrGilbert 4y ago
I'm always surprised who appears on HN.^^ Love the work Marshall is doing on the watches. It's always satisfying to watch while coding. :)
krisoft 4y ago
I have a question while I'm watching this video: How thick are those gears? (Not necessarily those very gears but gears typically used in watches.) I have experience cutting 0.3mm and 0.1mm brass. The second is just wobbling everywhere like a reed in the wind, while those gears seems to be solid.
- Werewolf255 4y ago
  I've just gotten into this hobby and the pivots on these watches are around the 0.01mm range with the individual teeth coming in around that size too. So might be that 0.1mm brass cutting could do the trick, if you finesse it right. From what I've been reading/watching, lots of classical jewelry education focused on learning how to manufacture extremely precise tools to shape, mill, and manipulate various materials. I had extremely limited success replicating a gear using a 0.3mm FDM Cartesian 3d printer, but even then I had to manually shave off every single tooth under a loupe.
- KaiserPro 4y ago
  Those ones are pretty thick, by watch standards, and the teeth aren't the smallest. I think from memory the thickness is about 0.25mm, but I would need to get the calipers out when I get home. Accutron is where the really small engineering comes in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XugX5zb1rG8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XugX5zb1rG8 the wheel is about 25mm across (I think) but you can't really see the teeth with the naked eye. (https://www.watchdoctor.biz/accutron/ https://www.watchdoctor.biz/accutron/ has more details) but the level of accuracy and detail needed to machine that far outweighs the stuff that rolex do even now. These index wheels were mass produced, and I still don't know how they did it.
  - krisoft 4y ago
    Thank you for your kind answer . Both from you and werewolf255. > These index wheels were mass produced, and I still don't know how they did it. Fascinating. My guess would be some form of etching process. But that would make it some form of MEMS years before the first commonly recognised MEMS components.
bjt2n3904 4y ago
I bought a Seiko automatic that I wore for a while, until it stopped -- I think I got some sand in it. The watch shop asked for more than the cost of the watch to service it, so I watched a few videos and tried to do it myself. Make no mistake, those gears are TINY. Insanely so. I had imagined that I'd put them into place carefully, lining up the teeth... But they're so small it's closer to "well I dropped you into place and bumped you a few times and it seems good now". I got the watch to run, but somehow messed up the date window. Fiddlesticks.
- implements 4y ago
  It’s extremely hard to get a decent mechanical watch without the ‘date complication’ - which I thought was odd as it’s a pain to adjust it nearly every month, so much so that you can’t be sure the current display is even correct.
  - alexgrover 4y ago
    I’m not sure where you’re looking but every brand offers no-date watches in pretty much every style you might want
    - implements 4y ago
      There’s a few very expensive purely mechanical no-date watches, but I haven’t been able to find an affordable one.
      - stevekemp 4y ago
        You might consider browsing the dedicated sites, such as chrono24, which sell used watches. When people desire cheap watches I tend to recommend some of the old USSR pieces, they were made in the millions and so they're very available, and they're cheap and reliable too. These days there are new options available, so you might consider searching for things made by Vostok, or similar. (Half my watch collection is Swiss-made, the other half is mostly Soviet vintage pieces.)
      - 4y ago
djtriptych 4y ago
Watched a few of his videos just last week - the YT algorithm must love him. Really, really good photography and narration - worth a watch IMO.
- philjohn 4y ago
  The YouTube algorithm always seems to find cool stuff - I've been suggested (and watched) this, LockPickingLawyer and Mentour Pilot.
  - djtriptych 4y ago
    Thanks for the recommendations =)
steveBK123 4y ago
Old "tools" like vintage watches, cameras, etc are pretty cool. In my experience they were built to be more serviceable, but also due to less precise manufacturing, there were seemingly a lot more tolerances built into the designs. It's great watching people restore Rolexes, Leicas, etc. Similar to the video here, I have my grandfathers Rolex. He wore it while trimming hedges and doing all sorts of yard work. Why not, it was his only watch and he needed to tell the time! If it's so good it ought to be able to stand up to the abuse! It's also not like he serviced it regularly, and after being in a safe for 20 years after his passing, I put it on, moved around for a day with it.. and it started to keep time about as accurately as specified. These days you see the exact opposite behavior. Everyone has just become so precious about their goods. "It's really expensive so I need to protect it / use it sparingly / use great caution". Look at the entire ecosystem of protective cases for iPhones/Apple Watches/etc. On upscale cars you have the obsession with paint protection films, ceramic coatings, etc. In some cases its warranted - we got my wife a (not Rolex) expensive watch 10 years ago, and the thing has had to go in for service every 2-3 years for weeks at a time to get it to keep time properly. Even if some companies like Tesla have notoriously thin paint, no ones cars are rusting in 5 years like they did in the 80s.
- dylan604 4y ago
  >These days you see the exact opposite behavior. Everyone has just become so precious about their goods. "It's really expensive so I need to protect it / use it sparingly / use great caution". Look at the entire ecosystem of protective cases for iPhones/Apple Watches/etc. On upscale cars you have the obsession with paint protection films, ceramic coatings, etc. what the wha??? i see people give their toddlers their mobile devices who then gleefully whack it on whatever surface is convenient. i see people just toss their devices around. case or no case. so many people don't even think of it as an expensive device since it's just a part of their monthly fees. seemingly, only the people that buy the phone outright are familiar with the actual costs. with insurance plans and cheap replacements, people care less about the fragility of the thing and just think of it as a kitchen utensil. so i guess the circles you and i run in are quite drastically different in this regard.
  - 4y ago
tricky 4y ago
Another great watch restoration youtube channel is "Nekkid Watchmaker." His precision and attention to detail is unbelievable.
zuzatm 4y ago
I don't know why, but I find watch mechanics super fascinating. Few favorites for people with spare time (and lots of money if one wants to buy these): Tourbillon: a watch complication where the main mechanism is mounted on a rotating wheel so that gravity doesn't affect the watch in a single direction. Spring drive: A very recent mechanism that produces a perfect sweeping motion of the seconds hand. It combines both mechanical power (no battery) with a quartz crystal in a super cool way. Minute repeater: a mechanical way for a blind person to tell the time.
- yboris 4y ago
  I hope you've seen this then: https://ciechanow.ski/mechanical-watch/ https://ciechanow.ski/mechanical-watch/
  - zuzatm 4y ago
    I did. It a beautiful and very educational website! :)
- bitexploder 4y ago
  They are generally some of the finest machining and metal work you can buy, really cool stuff to see as a hobby machinist.
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  And for about $100, you can still buy a mechanical Seiko with a see-through caseback so you can watch everything in motion. A gateway drug for many... but also a fine stopping point because Seikos are wonderful machines in their own right. (Although, Seiko is doing away with their most affordable mechanical models, all the newer ones are $200+)
Chris86 4y ago
Been watching these videos for several months now, pretty relaxing to watch and fascinating too. I feel like this is the BMW equivalent: https://www.youtube.com/@M539Restorations https://www.youtube.com/@M539Restorations
HanClinto 4y ago
It's always so fascinating when content creators put out such diverse content. I mainly recognize Marshall for his work as commentator of Magic: The Gathering tournaments (and other related sundry content), and it shocked me the first time I heard one of his watch-restoration videos -- his voice is so distinctive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6TYApKT1Q4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6TYApKT1Q4
- JRandomHacker42 4y ago
  I'm always amused at how little cross-promotion Marshall does - he has decently large followings in two completely different contexts and most of them are completely unaware of each other.
  - hello_hny 4y ago
    Especially since this YouTube channel might be bringing him more money than anything else now. I only knew about this since LSV brought it up during an LR episode on Marshall's background
  - HanClinto 4y ago
    What I only realized today is that his watch restoration channel has more subscribers than the official Magic: The Gathering YouTube channel now. That's insane.
- flobosg 4y ago
  I’m a huge fan of his Limited Resources podcast with Luis Scott-Vargas. He sometimes speaks there about his watch restoration work.
yboris 4y ago
My favorite YouTube restoration channel is My Mechanics - restoring metal objects with tremendous attention to detail and care (creating new parts as needed). I suspect many people who like the watch restorations will like this: https://www.youtube.com/c/mymechanics https://www.youtube.com/c/mymechanics
- mryingster 4y ago
  He is my favorite of the restoration channels. I don't believe anyone comes close to his attention to detail. I wish he put content out more frequently!
  - yboris 4y ago
    The attention to detail is almost surely the reason the frequency of new videos is low. Meanwhile, I'm getting my machining fix with Inheritance Machining https://www.youtube.com/@InheritanceMachining https://www.youtube.com/@InheritanceMachining
thih9 4y ago
YouTube is such a nice medium for this kind of videos. I can watch at my own pace, pause and rewind when needed, I don't even have to squint because I can zoom in.
bze12 4y ago
it's cool to see all the smart little process details - wood sticks to clean off the watch without scratching - bright green mat for high contrast against small parts - soft cushion pad made it easier to pick up parts on a flat surface - the ring around the replacement main spring to make it easier to press into the barrel (idk anything about watch servicing, just my guesses from watching the video)

74 points by stevekemp 4y ago

I collect watches, and have an interest in them generally. This is a pretty thorough example of how a watch is disassembled and "restored". (Retitled, against policy, because the original one doesn't summerize it appropriately.)

coffeebeqn 4y ago
Why the quotes? Is it similar to other collectibles like coins where you must keep the patina or it loses value? Personally I love these channels where they fix old stuff be it electronic, mechanical or paintings
- stevekemp 4y ago
  Some people might say that! For me it was a service, rather than a restoration. At least partly because there were no major faults, stripping cleaning, and reassembling was all that was required - and changing a couple of parts. There was nothing wrong, it wasn't broken, so restoration feels like the wrong word to use.
- albroland 4y ago
  >you must keep the patina or it loses value? That's exactly it, especially among vintage rolex collectors. They have a bunch of slang for describing different ways things have aged eg the tritium paint on the dial having faded into a desirable cream color (creamy lume!), the hand's lume matching (implying it is the original paint on both the dial and hands), the dial itself could have any variety of sun damage like spidering or spotting, and on the GMT's in particular the color on the insert can fade so you might find yourself looking at a "fuchsia GMT". There is also a huge aversion to polishing of any kind. This also can end up creating a lot of drama with Rolex itself if they send the watch in for factory service with instructions that end up not being honored. If you poke around on forums you'll see some very angry customers who specified no polishing, no replacing of worn/patina'd components like hands or dials, who got their watch back with a bunch of factory new parts.
  - JohnBooty 4y ago
    For those not involved in the watch hobby, I'd also like to point out that Rolex collecting is just one particular niche. There are a lot of folks in the hobby who are really passionate about e.g. super affordable Seikos and Casios and don't "graduate" to super pricey stuff. For years, I'd assumed that watch collecting was sort of a money spending contest. Not so. I've found it super welcoming, accessible, and honestly not necessarily expensive. (Though you can certainly spend unlimited amounts of money if you wish

MrGilbert 4y ago

I'm always surprised who appears on HN.^^ Love the work Marshall is doing on the watches. It's always satisfying to watch while coding. :)

krisoft 4y ago

I have a question while I'm watching this video: How thick are those gears? (Not necessarily those very gears but gears typically used in watches.) I have experience cutting 0.3mm and 0.1mm brass. The second is just wobbling everywhere like a reed in the wind, while those gears seems to be solid.

Werewolf255 4y ago
I've just gotten into this hobby and the pivots on these watches are around the 0.01mm range with the individual teeth coming in around that size too. So might be that 0.1mm brass cutting could do the trick, if you finesse it right. From what I've been reading/watching, lots of classical jewelry education focused on learning how to manufacture extremely precise tools to shape, mill, and manipulate various materials. I had extremely limited success replicating a gear using a 0.3mm FDM Cartesian 3d printer, but even then I had to manually shave off every single tooth under a loupe.
KaiserPro 4y ago
Those ones are pretty thick, by watch standards, and the teeth aren't the smallest. I think from memory the thickness is about 0.25mm, but I would need to get the calipers out when I get home. Accutron is where the really small engineering comes in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XugX5zb1rG8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XugX5zb1rG8 the wheel is about 25mm across (I think) but you can't really see the teeth with the naked eye. (https://www.watchdoctor.biz/accutron/ https://www.watchdoctor.biz/accutron/ has more details) but the level of accuracy and detail needed to machine that far outweighs the stuff that rolex do even now. These index wheels were mass produced, and I still don't know how they did it.
- krisoft 4y ago
  Thank you for your kind answer . Both from you and werewolf255. > These index wheels were mass produced, and I still don't know how they did it. Fascinating. My guess would be some form of etching process. But that would make it some form of MEMS years before the first commonly recognised MEMS components.

bjt2n3904 4y ago

I bought a Seiko automatic that I wore for a while, until it stopped -- I think I got some sand in it. The watch shop asked for more than the cost of the watch to service it, so I watched a few videos and tried to do it myself. Make no mistake, those gears are TINY. Insanely so. I had imagined that I'd put them into place carefully, lining up the teeth... But they're so small it's closer to "well I dropped you into place and bumped you a few times and it seems good now". I got the watch to run, but somehow messed up the date window. Fiddlesticks.

implements 4y ago
It’s extremely hard to get a decent mechanical watch without the ‘date complication’ - which I thought was odd as it’s a pain to adjust it nearly every month, so much so that you can’t be sure the current display is even correct.
- alexgrover 4y ago
  I’m not sure where you’re looking but every brand offers no-date watches in pretty much every style you might want
  - implements 4y ago
    There’s a few very expensive purely mechanical no-date watches, but I haven’t been able to find an affordable one.
    - stevekemp 4y ago
      You might consider browsing the dedicated sites, such as chrono24, which sell used watches. When people desire cheap watches I tend to recommend some of the old USSR pieces, they were made in the millions and so they're very available, and they're cheap and reliable too. These days there are new options available, so you might consider searching for things made by Vostok, or similar. (Half my watch collection is Swiss-made, the other half is mostly Soviet vintage pieces.)
    - 4y ago

djtriptych 4y ago

Watched a few of his videos just last week - the YT algorithm must love him. Really, really good photography and narration - worth a watch IMO.

philjohn 4y ago
The YouTube algorithm always seems to find cool stuff - I've been suggested (and watched) this, LockPickingLawyer and Mentour Pilot.
- djtriptych 4y ago
  Thanks for the recommendations =)

steveBK123 4y ago

Old "tools" like vintage watches, cameras, etc are pretty cool. In my experience they were built to be more serviceable, but also due to less precise manufacturing, there were seemingly a lot more tolerances built into the designs. It's great watching people restore Rolexes, Leicas, etc. Similar to the video here, I have my grandfathers Rolex. He wore it while trimming hedges and doing all sorts of yard work. Why not, it was his only watch and he needed to tell the time! If it's so good it ought to be able to stand up to the abuse! It's also not like he serviced it regularly, and after being in a safe for 20 years after his passing, I put it on, moved around for a day with it.. and it started to keep time about as accurately as specified. These days you see the exact opposite behavior. Everyone has just become so precious about their goods. "It's really expensive so I need to protect it / use it sparingly / use great caution". Look at the entire ecosystem of protective cases for iPhones/Apple Watches/etc. On upscale cars you have the obsession with paint protection films, ceramic coatings, etc. In some cases its warranted - we got my wife a (not Rolex) expensive watch 10 years ago, and the thing has had to go in for service every 2-3 years for weeks at a time to get it to keep time properly. Even if some companies like Tesla have notoriously thin paint, no ones cars are rusting in 5 years like they did in the 80s.

dylan604 4y ago
>These days you see the exact opposite behavior. Everyone has just become so precious about their goods. "It's really expensive so I need to protect it / use it sparingly / use great caution". Look at the entire ecosystem of protective cases for iPhones/Apple Watches/etc. On upscale cars you have the obsession with paint protection films, ceramic coatings, etc. what the wha??? i see people give their toddlers their mobile devices who then gleefully whack it on whatever surface is convenient. i see people just toss their devices around. case or no case. so many people don't even think of it as an expensive device since it's just a part of their monthly fees. seemingly, only the people that buy the phone outright are familiar with the actual costs. with insurance plans and cheap replacements, people care less about the fragility of the thing and just think of it as a kitchen utensil. so i guess the circles you and i run in are quite drastically different in this regard.
- 4y ago

tricky 4y ago

Another great watch restoration youtube channel is "Nekkid Watchmaker." His precision and attention to detail is unbelievable.

zuzatm 4y ago

I don't know why, but I find watch mechanics super fascinating. Few favorites for people with spare time (and lots of money if one wants to buy these): Tourbillon: a watch complication where the main mechanism is mounted on a rotating wheel so that gravity doesn't affect the watch in a single direction. Spring drive: A very recent mechanism that produces a perfect sweeping motion of the seconds hand. It combines both mechanical power (no battery) with a quartz crystal in a super cool way. Minute repeater: a mechanical way for a blind person to tell the time.

yboris 4y ago
I hope you've seen this then: https://ciechanow.ski/mechanical-watch/ https://ciechanow.ski/mechanical-watch/
- zuzatm 4y ago
  I did. It a beautiful and very educational website! :)
bitexploder 4y ago
They are generally some of the finest machining and metal work you can buy, really cool stuff to see as a hobby machinist.
JohnBooty 4y ago
And for about $100, you can still buy a mechanical Seiko with a see-through caseback so you can watch everything in motion. A gateway drug for many... but also a fine stopping point because Seikos are wonderful machines in their own right. (Although, Seiko is doing away with their most affordable mechanical models, all the newer ones are $200+)

Chris86 4y ago

Been watching these videos for several months now, pretty relaxing to watch and fascinating too. I feel like this is the BMW equivalent: https://www.youtube.com/@M539Restorations https://www.youtube.com/@M539Restorations

HanClinto 4y ago

It's always so fascinating when content creators put out such diverse content. I mainly recognize Marshall for his work as commentator of Magic: The Gathering tournaments (and other related sundry content), and it shocked me the first time I heard one of his watch-restoration videos -- his voice is so distinctive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6TYApKT1Q4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6TYApKT1Q4

JRandomHacker42 4y ago
I'm always amused at how little cross-promotion Marshall does - he has decently large followings in two completely different contexts and most of them are completely unaware of each other.
- hello_hny 4y ago
  Especially since this YouTube channel might be bringing him more money than anything else now. I only knew about this since LSV brought it up during an LR episode on Marshall's background
- HanClinto 4y ago
  What I only realized today is that his watch restoration channel has more subscribers than the official Magic: The Gathering YouTube channel now. That's insane.
flobosg 4y ago
I’m a huge fan of his Limited Resources podcast with Luis Scott-Vargas. He sometimes speaks there about his watch restoration work.

yboris 4y ago

My favorite YouTube restoration channel is My Mechanics - restoring metal objects with tremendous attention to detail and care (creating new parts as needed). I suspect many people who like the watch restorations will like this: https://www.youtube.com/c/mymechanics https://www.youtube.com/c/mymechanics

mryingster 4y ago
He is my favorite of the restoration channels. I don't believe anyone comes close to his attention to detail. I wish he put content out more frequently!
- yboris 4y ago
  The attention to detail is almost surely the reason the frequency of new videos is low. Meanwhile, I'm getting my machining fix with Inheritance Machining https://www.youtube.com/@InheritanceMachining https://www.youtube.com/@InheritanceMachining

thih9 4y ago

YouTube is such a nice medium for this kind of videos. I can watch at my own pace, pause and rewind when needed, I don't even have to squint because I can zoom in.

bze12 4y ago

it's cool to see all the smart little process details - wood sticks to clean off the watch without scratching - bright green mat for high contrast against small parts - soft cushion pad made it easier to pick up parts on a flat surface - the ring around the replacement main spring to make it easier to press into the barrel (idk anything about watch servicing, just my guesses from watching the video)