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Ah, too bad the GPU driver is still closed-source. Hopefully they do indeed release that open source driver they apparently promise... I kinda expected most R
by amatecha 4y ago
Ah, too bad the GPU driver is still closed-source. Hopefully they do indeed release that open source driver they apparently promise... I kinda expected most RISC-V boards are going to be open hardware, but maybe I was wrong to assume that, heh
- snvzz 4y agoI understand the link's author got mesa3d working. But to do so, they used git head mesa3d, experimental kernel patches to get the kernel part working, and firmware blobs they took from the proprietary driver. We'll have to wait a little more, but will get system images with all of that already working. Eventually, it'll all be upstream. It helps that large amounts of these boards (more than every RISC-V SBC before, combined) are getting to developers. This was the whole point of the boards after all.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago> they used git head mesa3d, experimental kernel patches to get the kernel part working, In fairness, that's what I'd expect for new hardware; out of tree patches, then head, then unstable/rc/beta releases, then eventually normally stable versions. The firmware blobs are unfortunate, though.
- snvzz 4y agoWhile it is reasonable to expect this much, we seldom get anywhere near that. The usual fare is, unfortunately, just an android kernel source tarball that has been modified so that it works with the hardware, with no history of changes nor documentation of the hardware. The situation with GPUs, specifically, is really bad. Intel, AMD and now Imagination Technologies are about the only ones, that I am aware of, who seem to care about open drivers.
- wereallterrrist 4y agoDon't AMD GPUs still have firmware blobs, they just happen to submit them to upstream linux-firmware?
- Heston 4y agoYeah, the open drivers don't matter a whole lot. It just loads the closed source proprietary blob into the gpu. It's a step in the right direction but can be very misleading.
- pabs3 4y agoThe worst part is when those blobs are signed, then you can't reverse engineer them and replace them with open firmware.
- snvzz 4y agoThis is one of many ways by which NVIDIA actively sabotages the open source driver effort. They were catching up at some point, and NVIDIA started doing that.
- pabs3 4y agoThe good news is that with the new open Linux kernel drivers from NVIDIA, Nouveau folks will be able to use the same signed proprietary firmware as the proprietary userspace component of the NVIDIA drivers. So that should unblock development of the open userspace component of the libre Nouveau drivers too.
- mananaysiempre 4y agoAMD’s linux-firmware blobs also exclude OpenCL support IIRC.
- dogben 4y agoThey do support OpenCL. You only need their closed source user space library libamdocl*.so and libamd_comgr.so to use it.
- pabs3 4y agoThe firmware blobs are normal, every major GPU requires them. Lots of other things too.
- Klasiaster 4y agoWith x86 PC compatibles you expect the opposite: You can use old software and the system will still boot and be mostly usable but not with SoC boards :shrug:
- SanjayMehta 4y agoThis confusion is quite common. Just the ISA is open; anyone can build a closed implementation compatible with RISC-V.
- StreamBright 4y agoWe should move back to the state when hardware had a detailed development guide so you could write your own driver.
- nine_k 4y agoI suppose these guides exist, but you have to be fluent in Chinese to obtain and use them.
- benj111 4y agoWhy is it that an open cpu can be developed but not an open gpu? A GPU as I understand it is simpler than a cpu, but parallel. That to me seems like it would lower barriers to entry. But that obviously isn't the case, so I must be missing something.
- hmry 4y agoFrom researching this in the past, it seems like there are many more learning resources about CPU design than GPU design. Not to mention that CPU design is often covered in college curricula while I'm not aware of any GPU design courses (though if anybody know of some, please do share)
- IshKebab 4y agoGPUs are much more complex than CPUs (at least in terms of their interface; obviously a Xeon is not simple). Plus they haven't been around as long so their entire architecture is not as stable (e.g. consider the switch away from fixed function).
- microtonal 4y agoMost of these RISC-V CPUs are not open, only the ISA. There are also GPUs that us the RISC-V instruction set: https://www.think-silicon.com/neox-graphics https://www.think-silicon.com/neox-graphics Of course, an open instruction set is also not enough to write drivers.
- zozbot234 4y agoThe V instruction set extension of RISC-V started out from efforts at creating an open alternative to GPU compute. So at least in principle, you just need something that exposes a framebuffer and everything else can be done via software rendering. This VisionFive-2 chip does not seem to implement V, but future chips likely will.
- phkahler 4y ago>> expected most RISC-V boards are going to be open hardware, but maybe I was wrong to assume that, heh There aren't any/many GPUs they could use with open source drivers are there? I'd like to see one with a bunch of small RISV-V cores running llvmpipe as a GPU, but it's not clear how good that would be.