5 ms·

I have no opinion about weather modification but I live in CO and have a bunch of new age and wook friends. I've had a conversation several times where the oth

I have no opinion about weather modification but I live in CO and have a bunch of new age and wook friends. I've had a conversation several times where the other interlocutor has used these programs have been used to justify a belief in "chem trails". It's a really bad conversational cycle. me: "Chemtrails aren't real" wook: "yeah but they are doing weather modification" me: "but a) it's not a consipracy because they publish explicitly what they are doing and b) weather modification programs aren't 'chemtrails'" wook: "yeah but they are doing weather modification" I love my friends, but yeesh.

pohl 4y ago
You have friends from Kashyyyk?
nonethewiser 4y ago
> me: "but a) it's not a consipracy because they publish explicitly what they are doing and Seems like a bad argument. They could simply be lieing, withholding information. And we should expect precisely that if there was a conspiracy.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  If you start with the assumption that all information you get is false unless it conforms to what you want to believe, then yeah, you're gonna see conspiracies everywhere. There's no ledge for that slippery slope. Everyone could be telling you lies. You could be living the Trumann show. Your dentist might be implementing mind control devices in your teeth while you're asleep. Lizard people might be running the Illuminati. At some point, you need to find a way to live with a reasonable amount of uncertainty.
esbranson 4y ago
useful idiot (plural useful idiots) 2. (derogatory, political jargon) One who is seen to unwittingly support a malignant cause through their 'naive' attempts to be a force for good. I have usually viewed those conspiracy theories as an attempt to impugn their own (and our own) government with ill intent. It's agitprop. Like the opposite of beer goggles, it only sees anger and hatred and ill-will. Aesop's Fables already tell us that any old excuse will do, no matter how silly.
sanderjd 4y ago
What is "wook"?
- 0xdead8ead 4y ago
  'Wook' here. Got the dreadlocks, grateful dead tiedye, the VW Westfalia and everything. It's short form for wookie. (star wars, chewbaca) Basically came out of the jamband scene. If you've ever been to a music festival, and seen the dreadlocked folks, that party way to hard. That's a wook. One of my fav insta meme accounts -- you'll get the idea. - https://www.instagram.com/cbgtwh/ https://www.instagram.com/cbgtwh/ -- Anyway, yes, hippies have been talking about chem trails for years. While you can call it a 'conspiracy theory'. Reality is -- they are doing weather modification, and have been for years. Maybe it's a matter of semantics for you. But the reality is, they are releasing chemicals (silver iodide), via aircraft, into the atmosphere. That's a fact. As to claims of malfeasance. Unknown. I myself, and perhaps your 'wook' friends, have a problem with dropping chemicals from aircraft on unsuspecting populations. Who knows what the long term health impacts of that are. Probably some of that school of thought goes back to a time when they were using DDT on mosquitos. That turned out real well.
  - freeone3000 4y ago
    It did turn out real well? It ended malaria in the southern United States? Ended mosquito populations in hundreds of square miles? It was kind of a big deal?
    - 0xdead8ead 4y ago
      It's use in the US was banned in 1972. Fact sheet from the national pesticide information center: http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/ddtgen.pdf http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/ddtgen.pdf
  - scarecrowbob 4y ago
    Oh,to be clear you are 100% correct in that we a) don't know the long term effects and b) in general folks aren't aware of these kinds of programs even if they are in more or less plain sight. I appreciate your comment. These projects seems very much like every other shitty thing that has been done around here, ranging from killing off predator populations to residential schools. Which is why I have very little opinion- the gov will do what they will do, and I will never have enough money to change that balance or enough tolerance for prison to do much directly. However, I don't agree that it's just semantics to say that these projects are not "chemtrails". Part of what I see in a larger group of people (for whom I am very fond) is a willingness to abandon most material nuance in their understanding of the world. In this case, specifically, it seems like a pretty normal case where the government is doing something with no regard for anything other than money. That's not, specifically, what people are talking about when they are talking about chemtrails, and that is important to me. Because the whole "chemtrials" discussion is a very handy metaphor about something that really is true: the folks who own this place undertake vast technological projects with no regard for our well being. However, since that's a metaphor and can be detached from reality, the responses to it can become immaterial and ineffective. Like, great, maybe we can all go sit in energy vortexes in Sedona and examine our starseed bodies so we can astrally project into a dimension where we can directly battle the annunaki because the lizard people are trying to mind control the NPCs. Or we can go levitate the pentagon or whatever people used to do for fun back int he day. To me the specifics of these things matter because the responses vary based on how we understand the cause. The fact that the government feels like they hold all the cards means that they are just up front about what they are doing and have no problem being violent to anyone who directly opposes those projects. So it's hard enough to mount a effective material response to that situation without also having to deal with a bunch of misunderstandings of the world or going to prison for blowing up dams or burning down ski resorts. Anyhow, sorry for the rant. I hope I'm just wrong and that all my new age friends really can manifest 5D consciousness and that Desert really is a wrong-headed bit of ficiton.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
upsidesinclude 4y ago
Ten years ago, if someone mentioned weather modification, someone not unlike yourself would call them crazy conspiracy theorists. Now you fully accept the fact that what they were claiming is true, but because you don't care for their vocabulary they are still conspiracy theorists.... This is kind of silly. What is a trail of chemicals left behind an airplane? They chose to say "chemtrail". Don't you see how that is kind of upside down?
- slavik81 4y ago
  Why would anyone think it was a conspiracy in 2013? This was an established practice and documented all over the place a decade ago. Here's the Wikipedia page on cloud seeding from 2010 (twelve years ago): https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cloud_seeding&oldid=387109373 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cloud_seeding&old...
  - upsidesinclude 4y ago
    How could I answer that question. It is a non-question. Why would such a large group of people chose not to investigate the public record? Those same people are commonplace idiots, I suppose. They have not been informed by their echochambers that these things are occurring and so the idea, to them, is crazy conspiracy. Now, those same idiots chose semantic debate about the use of some phrase or word choice instead of acknowledging their lack of awareness.
ttyprintk 4y ago
Wait till they hear about aimed lightning: https://arstechnica.com/?p=1910281 https://arstechnica.com/?p=1910281

pohl 4y ago

You have friends from Kashyyyk?

nonethewiser 4y ago

> me: "but a) it's not a consipracy because they publish explicitly what they are doing and Seems like a bad argument. They could simply be lieing, withholding information. And we should expect precisely that if there was a conspiracy.

zdragnar 4y ago
If you start with the assumption that all information you get is false unless it conforms to what you want to believe, then yeah, you're gonna see conspiracies everywhere. There's no ledge for that slippery slope. Everyone could be telling you lies. You could be living the Trumann show. Your dentist might be implementing mind control devices in your teeth while you're asleep. Lizard people might be running the Illuminati. At some point, you need to find a way to live with a reasonable amount of uncertainty.

esbranson 4y ago

useful idiot (plural useful idiots) 2. (derogatory, political jargon) One who is seen to unwittingly support a malignant cause through their 'naive' attempts to be a force for good. I have usually viewed those conspiracy theories as an attempt to impugn their own (and our own) government with ill intent. It's agitprop. Like the opposite of beer goggles, it only sees anger and hatred and ill-will. Aesop's Fables already tell us that any old excuse will do, no matter how silly.

sanderjd 4y ago

What is "wook"?

0xdead8ead 4y ago
'Wook' here. Got the dreadlocks, grateful dead tiedye, the VW Westfalia and everything. It's short form for wookie. (star wars, chewbaca) Basically came out of the jamband scene. If you've ever been to a music festival, and seen the dreadlocked folks, that party way to hard. That's a wook. One of my fav insta meme accounts -- you'll get the idea. - https://www.instagram.com/cbgtwh/ https://www.instagram.com/cbgtwh/ -- Anyway, yes, hippies have been talking about chem trails for years. While you can call it a 'conspiracy theory'. Reality is -- they are doing weather modification, and have been for years. Maybe it's a matter of semantics for you. But the reality is, they are releasing chemicals (silver iodide), via aircraft, into the atmosphere. That's a fact. As to claims of malfeasance. Unknown. I myself, and perhaps your 'wook' friends, have a problem with dropping chemicals from aircraft on unsuspecting populations. Who knows what the long term health impacts of that are. Probably some of that school of thought goes back to a time when they were using DDT on mosquitos. That turned out real well.
- freeone3000 4y ago
  It did turn out real well? It ended malaria in the southern United States? Ended mosquito populations in hundreds of square miles? It was kind of a big deal?
  - 0xdead8ead 4y ago
    It's use in the US was banned in 1972. Fact sheet from the national pesticide information center: http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/ddtgen.pdf http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/ddtgen.pdf
- scarecrowbob 4y ago
  Oh,to be clear you are 100% correct in that we a) don't know the long term effects and b) in general folks aren't aware of these kinds of programs even if they are in more or less plain sight. I appreciate your comment. These projects seems very much like every other shitty thing that has been done around here, ranging from killing off predator populations to residential schools. Which is why I have very little opinion- the gov will do what they will do, and I will never have enough money to change that balance or enough tolerance for prison to do much directly. However, I don't agree that it's just semantics to say that these projects are not "chemtrails". Part of what I see in a larger group of people (for whom I am very fond) is a willingness to abandon most material nuance in their understanding of the world. In this case, specifically, it seems like a pretty normal case where the government is doing something with no regard for anything other than money. That's not, specifically, what people are talking about when they are talking about chemtrails, and that is important to me. Because the whole "chemtrials" discussion is a very handy metaphor about something that really is true: the folks who own this place undertake vast technological projects with no regard for our well being. However, since that's a metaphor and can be detached from reality, the responses to it can become immaterial and ineffective. Like, great, maybe we can all go sit in energy vortexes in Sedona and examine our starseed bodies so we can astrally project into a dimension where we can directly battle the annunaki because the lizard people are trying to mind control the NPCs. Or we can go levitate the pentagon or whatever people used to do for fun back int he day. To me the specifics of these things matter because the responses vary based on how we understand the cause. The fact that the government feels like they hold all the cards means that they are just up front about what they are doing and have no problem being violent to anyone who directly opposes those projects. So it's hard enough to mount a effective material response to that situation without also having to deal with a bunch of misunderstandings of the world or going to prison for blowing up dams or burning down ski resorts. Anyhow, sorry for the rant. I hope I'm just wrong and that all my new age friends really can manifest 5D consciousness and that Desert really is a wrong-headed bit of ficiton.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

upsidesinclude 4y ago

Ten years ago, if someone mentioned weather modification, someone not unlike yourself would call them crazy conspiracy theorists. Now you fully accept the fact that what they were claiming is true, but because you don't care for their vocabulary they are still conspiracy theorists.... This is kind of silly. What is a trail of chemicals left behind an airplane? They chose to say "chemtrail". Don't you see how that is kind of upside down?

slavik81 4y ago
Why would anyone think it was a conspiracy in 2013? This was an established practice and documented all over the place a decade ago. Here's the Wikipedia page on cloud seeding from 2010 (twelve years ago): https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cloud_seeding&oldid=387109373 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cloud_seeding&old...
- upsidesinclude 4y ago
  How could I answer that question. It is a non-question. Why would such a large group of people chose not to investigate the public record? Those same people are commonplace idiots, I suppose. They have not been informed by their echochambers that these things are occurring and so the idea, to them, is crazy conspiracy. Now, those same idiots chose semantic debate about the use of some phrase or word choice instead of acknowledging their lack of awareness.

ttyprintk 4y ago

Wait till they hear about aimed lightning: https://arstechnica.com/?p=1910281 https://arstechnica.com/?p=1910281