4 ms·

Hmm. I really don't think you have interacted with many "average" users. Once I get out of my engineering circle, the number of people who would be comfortabl

Hmm. I really don't think you have interacted with many "average" users. Once I get out of my engineering circle, the number of people who would be comfortable interacting with the command line is extremely small. To the majority of modern computer users, even the concept of a terminal and typing commands is completely foreign, let alone navigating the file structure via the command line. And oh by the way, on the Mac at least, you also many have to teach them how to give the Terminal app Full Disk Access privileges.

smoldesu 4y ago
Most Mac users I know are familiar with iTerm and it's basics, even if they don't really understand the shell. Makes sense too, it feels like 1-in-5 MacOS quirks I want to fix need a CLI command and a reboot.
- bookofjoe 4y ago
  I have NO IDEA what iTerm is nor do I know what a shell or CLI command are.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > I have NO IDEA what iTerm is I still would posit post people do. It comes pre-installed on your Mac, and even gets an appearance in the app launcher and Spotlight. Give it a chance, I guess? This is one of those "XKCD's lucky 10,000" moments: https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
    - bookofjoe 4y ago
      I disagree. You will find this hard to believe but I have never used the app launcher or Spotlight. Full disclosure: I bought my first Mac in 1988 (Macintosh SE) for my then 5-year-old daughter and have used Macs ever since.
vehemenz 4y ago
Possibly, but you may be underestimating the degree to which the App Store hampers the average user from getting the applications they need. Users think it's easy to use, yes, but they don't know enough to know better. Homebrew's search is better, and there are more applications available. Many applications aren't on the App Store at all, so one needs to Google and download possibly unnotarized .dmg archives. Surely this is no easier than Homebrew.
- bookofjoe 4y ago
  I find the App Store perfectly fine for getting the applications I want and need. Yes, I think it's easy to use: how can I be wrong about that? >...they don't know enough to know better. is rather snarky and condescending IMHO
- 0ct4via 4y ago
  It's not hampering though, the "average user" can often get apps from elsewhere. Mainstream companies offer binaries available from their websites (Chrome, Slack, etc.) that don't require the App Store at all -- but most will have a signed Developer ID too (among other reasons) prevent the Gatekeeper bypass being needed. Homebrew's search isn't better if the average user isn't familiar with or used to the command line. The "possible unnotarized .dmg archives" is a straw man and distracts from the main point -- GP just doesn't want to spend the $99/year. You've now got multiple people stating that your understanding of view of the average user seems substantially skewed, maybe it's worth taking a look at that.

smoldesu 4y ago

Most Mac users I know are familiar with iTerm and it's basics, even if they don't really understand the shell. Makes sense too, it feels like 1-in-5 MacOS quirks I want to fix need a CLI command and a reboot.

bookofjoe 4y ago
I have NO IDEA what iTerm is nor do I know what a shell or CLI command are.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > I have NO IDEA what iTerm is I still would posit post people do. It comes pre-installed on your Mac, and even gets an appearance in the app launcher and Spotlight. Give it a chance, I guess? This is one of those "XKCD's lucky 10,000" moments: https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
  - bookofjoe 4y ago
    I disagree. You will find this hard to believe but I have never used the app launcher or Spotlight. Full disclosure: I bought my first Mac in 1988 (Macintosh SE) for my then 5-year-old daughter and have used Macs ever since.

vehemenz 4y ago

Possibly, but you may be underestimating the degree to which the App Store hampers the average user from getting the applications they need. Users think it's easy to use, yes, but they don't know enough to know better. Homebrew's search is better, and there are more applications available. Many applications aren't on the App Store at all, so one needs to Google and download possibly unnotarized .dmg archives. Surely this is no easier than Homebrew.

bookofjoe 4y ago
I find the App Store perfectly fine for getting the applications I want and need. Yes, I think it's easy to use: how can I be wrong about that? >...they don't know enough to know better. is rather snarky and condescending IMHO
0ct4via 4y ago
It's not hampering though, the "average user" can often get apps from elsewhere. Mainstream companies offer binaries available from their websites (Chrome, Slack, etc.) that don't require the App Store at all -- but most will have a signed Developer ID too (among other reasons) prevent the Gatekeeper bypass being needed. Homebrew's search isn't better if the average user isn't familiar with or used to the command line. The "possible unnotarized .dmg archives" is a straw man and distracts from the main point -- GP just doesn't want to spend the $99/year. You've now got multiple people stating that your understanding of view of the average user seems substantially skewed, maybe it's worth taking a look at that.