5 ms·

I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ult

I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other things, means their actions are harmful. But trying to point this fact out makes them very, very defensive and they take it personally. Others only spend energy communicating because they want to help the child too. That's the thing that always causes me difficulty when dealing with parents like this, it's like talking to a brick wall. My usual attempt is trying to get them to see me as someone speaking from a place of trustworthiness, but it's frustrating. Usually the kids are smart enough to pick up on certain things so I guide them a little. For context, I tutor. The same parents that dismiss me about things like this or getting a diagnosis/treatment for ADHD pay me to teach their kids about science and math. I want to continue caring and trying, but I understand why teachers become so jaded. Does anyone have suggestions?

generalizations 4y ago
> very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child What are you referring to here?
- ihatepython 4y ago
  I believe he is saying that the state has ultimate authority over their child, not the parent.
- knaik94 4y ago
  They believe as a parents, they have all of the specific knowledge required to give their child the best possible life. While ignoring pediatricians and teachers. I wasn't referring to myself in any way.
  - generalizations 4y ago
    I mean, given they hired you as a math tutor, that sounds like hyperbole. Which doesn't sound like it answers my question.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
So in your capacity as a tutor, do you think you are qualified to make medical diagnoses of and medical decisions for other people's children? It's generally thought that this is the parents' decision because they have the most information about the child and the biggest "stake" in their child's success. Has it occurred to you that you might be working with incomplete information? Has it occurred to you that your conclusions might be wrong?
- knaik94 4y ago
  I have a diagnosis. Their teachers suspected a diagnosis and the child was tested. The child would benefit from treatment. The parents were asking for my opinion. As a tutor, I would be one of the first people that would know if a student is struggling and needs testing for a learning disorder. These situations I am talking about are specifically when the parent is clearly choosing to disregard information because they don't trust it or want it to be wrong for one reason or another. I don't understand why it's still such a divisive thing when the idea of parents being wrong is brought up. Parents, like all humans, have the capacity to do bad/wrong things with good intentions. Pediatricians face the same situation every day when dealing with this type of parent. EDIT: The child was tested by a healthcare profesional and was diagosed and medication was recommended. And I went through the same school system. They came to me for advice.
  - danenania 4y ago
    Fyi, speaking as a parent: as it relates to ADHD and giving young children powerful psychoactive drugs, the fact that you only seem aware of one side of an extremely complex and contentious issue makes me disinterested in your advice on this or any other parenting topic. The kinds of people I look to for advice understand the arguments on both sides and, while they may have a position one way or the other, are not zealots.
    - knaik94 4y ago
      As someone that has a diagnosis and takes medication for it and and an educator, I understand better than most both sides of the situation. I apologize if it seems like I don't understand both sides. In asian culture there is still a very very strong stigma surrounding treatment for mental health issues. Sometimes hesitancy is cultural and other times it's religious and other times it's pride. My own struggles growing up in a similar situation as the child and learning that I suffered unecessarily after I started medication, affects the language I use to describe the situation. Maybe I have become more jaded than I realize, I appreciate your perspective.
lolinder 4y ago
> This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. I think this may be your problem: you don't perceive the parent as the ultimate authority on the child. As a tutor, you fill a strictly advisory role, not a position of authority, and even your advisory role is limited in scope. If you try to exert authority or influence outside of that scope then yes, you will run into a wall. You have to accept that your ability to influence extends only as far as the parents' trust in you. As you gain trust, the circle in which you can exert influence expands, but you have to know where the boundaries are because every time you step out of them you lose trust and your ability to influence becomes weaker, not stronger.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  But the question is whether parents should be the ultimate authority on the child, and the law in many countries does not support that. The lines get drawn at different points in different countries, but many have laws against child endangerment etc. For example, in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. Some parts of the curriculum are mandatory, whether the parents agree or not. It is the role of the tutor and teacher to ensure that children receive an education in line with this. Parents can complain, but they have no authority there.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    Regardless of jurisdiction, OP is not the state and the issues they're talking about (ADHD diagnosis and vaccines) are not related to their role as a tutor. Even in the most extreme state-as-ultimate-authority jurisdiction, OP's role on these topics would be that of a reporter, not that of an authority.
  - fidgewidge 4y ago
    The alternative to the parents being the authority, is that the state is, but the state has lied constantly about everything related to COVID and children so that would be far worse. in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. No it's not. It's mandatory to educate them. Home schooling exists in Europe and parents who think teachers at a school are teaching children things that are wrong can do various things about it.
iinnPP 4y ago
Why would you, as a tutor, suggest medical interventions for your students?
fidgewidge 4y ago
Did you think that the problem may be the other way around? Their perception of the reliability of "the science" is accurate and yours is warped. The last years have split the population into those who blindly believe in academic and government scientific claims, regardless of how incredible those claims are or how frequently they turn out to have been wrong. And the rest, who don't treat science religiously, and who develop doubt when they see untrustworthy behavior. The first camp can't understand the second because they don't even try to. They feel the righteousness of the true believer. So here's the suggestion. If you're really a tutor who has such great understanding of the science, try debating with the parents and investigate any claims they make to justify their beliefs honestly. Do Your Own Research. Do not attempt to brainwash the child bypassing the parents. That will simply reinforce their pre-existing beliefs that people who are pro-vaccine are engaged in scientism, can't defend their beliefs and prefer to use communist-style tactics to manipulate others (like turning children against their parents). It will cause them to double down.
- knaik94 4y ago
  That is some very charged language. Showing empathy and helping a child become better at critical thinking isn't anything close to brainwashing. Maybe you're trying to use language that you imagine the parents might think in, but that's not charitable to them either. By asking this question, I felt like I was making it clear that I am trying to understand the parents and reach some middle ground.
  - fidgewidge 4y ago
    You aren't showing empathy, you claimed the parents were "brick walls" with "warped perceptions" who were harming their own children, and that you specifically told them that! No wonder they got defensive. That's the opposite of trying to understand them and it's certainly not charitable to them, is it? To engage in empathy you must be able to fairly articulate their views and the reasoning they use to arrive at them, in the same way they would or even better. In both posts you haven't done that. That's why they aren't listening to you. Your response to their views is laughable, it's to say "trust me" and then try to manipulate ("guide") their child when they aren't around, which is the opposite of being trustworthy. They trusted you to tutor their child in specific subjects and instead you betrayed that trust, then act surprised when they are "brick walls"? To convince the parents, you first need to convince them to talk to you and take you seriously. That in turn requires that you, firstly, stop bringing their child into it. Just ignore the child. The child is not being harmed, you aren't a hero who's saving them. The child's views are not your business, they are the parent's business. And secondly, that you do the legwork to fairly investigate their beliefs and the evidence they found convincing, so you can debate with them directly instead of telling them about "a place of trustworthiness" that they clearly don't believe in.

generalizations 4y ago

> very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child What are you referring to here?

ihatepython 4y ago
I believe he is saying that the state has ultimate authority over their child, not the parent.
knaik94 4y ago
They believe as a parents, they have all of the specific knowledge required to give their child the best possible life. While ignoring pediatricians and teachers. I wasn't referring to myself in any way.
- generalizations 4y ago
  I mean, given they hired you as a math tutor, that sounds like hyperbole. Which doesn't sound like it answers my question.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

So in your capacity as a tutor, do you think you are qualified to make medical diagnoses of and medical decisions for other people's children? It's generally thought that this is the parents' decision because they have the most information about the child and the biggest "stake" in their child's success. Has it occurred to you that you might be working with incomplete information? Has it occurred to you that your conclusions might be wrong?

knaik94 4y ago
I have a diagnosis. Their teachers suspected a diagnosis and the child was tested. The child would benefit from treatment. The parents were asking for my opinion. As a tutor, I would be one of the first people that would know if a student is struggling and needs testing for a learning disorder. These situations I am talking about are specifically when the parent is clearly choosing to disregard information because they don't trust it or want it to be wrong for one reason or another. I don't understand why it's still such a divisive thing when the idea of parents being wrong is brought up. Parents, like all humans, have the capacity to do bad/wrong things with good intentions. Pediatricians face the same situation every day when dealing with this type of parent. EDIT: The child was tested by a healthcare profesional and was diagosed and medication was recommended. And I went through the same school system. They came to me for advice.
- danenania 4y ago
  Fyi, speaking as a parent: as it relates to ADHD and giving young children powerful psychoactive drugs, the fact that you only seem aware of one side of an extremely complex and contentious issue makes me disinterested in your advice on this or any other parenting topic. The kinds of people I look to for advice understand the arguments on both sides and, while they may have a position one way or the other, are not zealots.
  - knaik94 4y ago
    As someone that has a diagnosis and takes medication for it and and an educator, I understand better than most both sides of the situation. I apologize if it seems like I don't understand both sides. In asian culture there is still a very very strong stigma surrounding treatment for mental health issues. Sometimes hesitancy is cultural and other times it's religious and other times it's pride. My own struggles growing up in a similar situation as the child and learning that I suffered unecessarily after I started medication, affects the language I use to describe the situation. Maybe I have become more jaded than I realize, I appreciate your perspective.

lolinder 4y ago

> This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. I think this may be your problem: you don't perceive the parent as the ultimate authority on the child. As a tutor, you fill a strictly advisory role, not a position of authority, and even your advisory role is limited in scope. If you try to exert authority or influence outside of that scope then yes, you will run into a wall. You have to accept that your ability to influence extends only as far as the parents' trust in you. As you gain trust, the circle in which you can exert influence expands, but you have to know where the boundaries are because every time you step out of them you lose trust and your ability to influence becomes weaker, not stronger.

Xylakant 4y ago
But the question is whether parents should be the ultimate authority on the child, and the law in many countries does not support that. The lines get drawn at different points in different countries, but many have laws against child endangerment etc. For example, in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. Some parts of the curriculum are mandatory, whether the parents agree or not. It is the role of the tutor and teacher to ensure that children receive an education in line with this. Parents can complain, but they have no authority there.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Regardless of jurisdiction, OP is not the state and the issues they're talking about (ADHD diagnosis and vaccines) are not related to their role as a tutor. Even in the most extreme state-as-ultimate-authority jurisdiction, OP's role on these topics would be that of a reporter, not that of an authority.
- fidgewidge 4y ago
  The alternative to the parents being the authority, is that the state is, but the state has lied constantly about everything related to COVID and children so that would be far worse. in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. No it's not. It's mandatory to educate them. Home schooling exists in Europe and parents who think teachers at a school are teaching children things that are wrong can do various things about it.

iinnPP 4y ago

Why would you, as a tutor, suggest medical interventions for your students?

fidgewidge 4y ago

Did you think that the problem may be the other way around? Their perception of the reliability of "the science" is accurate and yours is warped. The last years have split the population into those who blindly believe in academic and government scientific claims, regardless of how incredible those claims are or how frequently they turn out to have been wrong. And the rest, who don't treat science religiously, and who develop doubt when they see untrustworthy behavior. The first camp can't understand the second because they don't even try to. They feel the righteousness of the true believer. So here's the suggestion. If you're really a tutor who has such great understanding of the science, try debating with the parents and investigate any claims they make to justify their beliefs honestly. Do Your Own Research. Do not attempt to brainwash the child bypassing the parents. That will simply reinforce their pre-existing beliefs that people who are pro-vaccine are engaged in scientism, can't defend their beliefs and prefer to use communist-style tactics to manipulate others (like turning children against their parents). It will cause them to double down.

knaik94 4y ago
That is some very charged language. Showing empathy and helping a child become better at critical thinking isn't anything close to brainwashing. Maybe you're trying to use language that you imagine the parents might think in, but that's not charitable to them either. By asking this question, I felt like I was making it clear that I am trying to understand the parents and reach some middle ground.
- fidgewidge 4y ago
  You aren't showing empathy, you claimed the parents were "brick walls" with "warped perceptions" who were harming their own children, and that you specifically told them that! No wonder they got defensive. That's the opposite of trying to understand them and it's certainly not charitable to them, is it? To engage in empathy you must be able to fairly articulate their views and the reasoning they use to arrive at them, in the same way they would or even better. In both posts you haven't done that. That's why they aren't listening to you. Your response to their views is laughable, it's to say "trust me" and then try to manipulate ("guide") their child when they aren't around, which is the opposite of being trustworthy. They trusted you to tutor their child in specific subjects and instead you betrayed that trust, then act surprised when they are "brick walls"? To convince the parents, you first need to convince them to talk to you and take you seriously. That in turn requires that you, firstly, stop bringing their child into it. Just ignore the child. The child is not being harmed, you aren't a hero who's saving them. The child's views are not your business, they are the parent's business. And secondly, that you do the legwork to fairly investigate their beliefs and the evidence they found convincing, so you can debate with them directly instead of telling them about "a place of trustworthiness" that they clearly don't believe in.