6 ms·

Not surprised. My take - Strava was founded over 13 years ago, which is a dinosaur in startup land. They've raised $150m+ from investors and they want a return,

by mbesto 4y ago

Not surprised. My take - Strava was founded over 13 years ago, which is a dinosaur in startup land. They've raised $150m+ from investors and they want a return, so the company is scrambling to make decisions which can make the company more money. So I wouldn't be surprised if the specification for pricing was made by a committee and implemented by engineers with little direction. And since no one has conviction on what will work, this is your result (throwing stuff at the wall). Note - if you follow Strava's history, this isn't the first time they've been screwy with their commercial model. They had this funky "Training, Safety and Analysis" pack pricing program[0] that was confusing and they ultimately reverted back to the simple pricing model. Ultimately the unit economics just don't work out in this space - 100 million people don't want to pay to hold their training data in a prettier interface when they can just get it for free with Garmin (Strava does more than that btw, but the people who are fanatical about that info are a miniority). Likewise, if they don't IPO, there are too few players in the space that would make a $1b+ acquisition. [0] - https://www.bikeradar.com/news/strava-is-making-a-huge-change-to-its-premium-membership-heres-all-you-need-to-know/ https://www.bikeradar.com/news/strava-is-making-a-huge-chang...

prhn 4y ago
I think you're mostly correct here, but Strava's main selling point isn't the data store and interface (which in my opinion is not great). It's the social feature. I've met a massive community of cyclists: rode with cycling "celebs," trained with really strong amateurs, met a ton of people, learned about weekly group rides, learned about the best rides in the area, and made some very good friends. Most of this was facilitated by Strava. I'm glad it hasn't devolved into just another shitty social media app, but I do feel like they are not capitalizing on what makes them unique. Right now that is being the de facto cycling social media network.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  > I've ... made some very good friends. This is my experience. Strava is the only social network where I've made friends. It is a net positive in life. Every other social network I tried to use caused me to fire some friends eventually.
  - jq-r 4y ago
    Funnily enough, it pretty much broke apart our weekend riding group. That was a mountain bike group, and in my city there were about 20 of us on those rides depending on a season. It didn't matter who was the fastest uphill or downhill, or who was the bravest to go on some scary drops and jumps. It was always just about having fun whatever your abilities are. It was always damned fun on those group rides. Ride a lot, talk a lot, enjoy the greenery and fresh air, beer at the end, what's not to like? But little by little, and then all of the sudden, everyone had Strava, nobody wanted to rest on a nice place to stop, it was always segments, segments, and more segments. People didn't want session some nice jump or a section, it was always a white knuckle ride top to bottom with no technique, or fun, and just furious time comparisons on the end of segments. People would even heatedly argue about them too, and some riders I know don't talk to each other anymore because of it. Forget about chatting while riding, how you can chat if your heart is pounding and you're chasing that elusive KOM? So with time, that diverse group fractured because the slower guys couldn't keep up with the "I only ride segments" guys, and smaller groups formed, but those were actually quite short lived. Some of those still ride, but mostly solos or in very small groups which is quite sad to me. I guess Strava can definitely help you out if you're riding a road bike to find a group which suits your ability. I guess in every city you can have plenty to choose from. But that just doesn't work if your area has say 50 riders in total. Segments in the mountain are great, but only if you ride alone like a training, just don't drag a mountain bike group into it. Just to make it clear, I don't blame Strava here at all, it is just people who get obssessed by numbers and see rivalry when none exist. Or as the saying goes: comparison is a thief of joy.
- Alex3917 4y ago
  And that would be a great value at $3-4 a month, but at double that, meh.
- jwineinger 4y ago
  What features of Strava have helped with that? Did you find a local cycling group on Strava and met up with people via that? I seem to be a cycling (or at least group riding) dead zone, because there don't seem to be any active groups near me. I get kudos from friends afar but the only person that Strava helped me connect with was someone that I chatted briefly at a stoplight with, who then found me via Strava flyover. But even then, we've never ridden together since.
  - rday 4y ago
    Flyover also helped me connect with groups that I would see riding in other directions. Since flyover was made opt-in, I haven't gotten any use out of it. Opt-in is probably a really good idea, even though it killed the feature. I really liked that feature. But yea, it was too easy to abuse. Are you able to see any frequent routes using the global heat map?
  - nradov 4y ago
    Use the flyover feature and segment leaderboards to identify users active in your area, then check which clubs they have joined. Some of those clubs might have a weekly group ride either listed as a Strava event, or on a linked web site or Facebook group. Many bike shops also organize a weekly group ride as a marketing strategy. If you're already coming there to ride then there's a good chance you'll buy something or use their mechanic service.
- mbesto 4y ago
  > It's the social feature. Agreed. But this is a feature that only works on a free model. I'm not aware of any major social network makes money on 100% of its user community.
  - kaesar14 4y ago
    You’re not wrong but “no one’s done it so no one should ever even try” isn’t a good reason
- Lio 4y ago
  As a current subscriber I'm not sure I agree with this. Yes Strava does do social stuff but they're a mixed bag and also free. I like that they don't do aggressive surveillance as a business model (it's one of the reasons I subscribe) but it's also pretty useless for organising and planning future rides. Lots of people comment and give kudos after an event's happened but I don't know anyone using Strava to agree meeting up somewhere. All of that side of things seems to happen on Signal, Whatsapp or FB here. I do like the route planning but I'm not sure I'll continue to subscribe just for that given the new prices.
  - prhn 4y ago
    I 100% agree with your criticisms. That was my point. Strava’s main feature is the social element, but they are not really maximizing the leverage they have with install base. Compare Zwift. I can log in and join a group ride at just about any time of the day. Now, I know that’s not a completely fair comparison because Zwift is online so it always has access to way more riders, but where is the analogue in Strava?
    - Lio 4y ago
      Ah right, yep that makes perfect sense and I agree on the comparison with Zwift too. Strava are in a unique position compared to Garmin Connect. Whist I use Garmin and they seem to be the most popular bike computers I still know lots of people in my cycling club that use Wahoo or Hammerhead units. Strava is the place that everyone comes together after a ride.
jlarocco 4y ago
I think the bigger problem is that their users all have accounts on competing services by this point. By the time they got serious about adding features, everybody who wanted them had already signed up for alternative services that had them. Now Strava is playing catch up with a bunch of newer companies, and each one them is focused on a subset of Strava's users. For me, I signed up for RideWithGPS ages before Strava had a good route planner. Now Strava has one, but now I'm happy with RWGPS and don't have any reason to switch back. Other people wanted better training tools, and they found services that helped with that. Meanwhile, we've all kept our Strava accounts, because that's where the leaderboards and groups are.
scoofy 4y ago
Yea, I "left" the app when they started forcing me to pay. After a year of paying for it, I just couldn't justify paying that much money just to compete, racing along the inherently flawed timed segments. It's an amazing app, and I'd love to pay them for it, but unless they were to start releasing hardware that allowed me to see and meet up with my friends while riding, it's hard to justify hundreds of dollars just for something that my garmin or google maps/ridewithgps already does by default.
nradov 4y ago
The endurance athletes who care about data use Garmin Connect, TrainingPeaks, and WKO for tracking and analytics. Strava's analytics and workout planning features are basically useless. Where Strava adds value is as a social network. It's fun to share your activities and pictures with friends, and see what they have been doing. I've gotten good ideas for routes to try or races to enter. As a long time Strava user it is frustrating to see how it has been stagnant for many years and they almost never add useful improvements. They still don't support triathlons (or any other multisport activities). Many of the segment and challenge leaderboards are full of obvious cheaters.

by mbesto 4y ago

prhn 4y ago

I think you're mostly correct here, but Strava's main selling point isn't the data store and interface (which in my opinion is not great). It's the social feature. I've met a massive community of cyclists: rode with cycling "celebs," trained with really strong amateurs, met a ton of people, learned about weekly group rides, learned about the best rides in the area, and made some very good friends. Most of this was facilitated by Strava. I'm glad it hasn't devolved into just another shitty social media app, but I do feel like they are not capitalizing on what makes them unique. Right now that is being the de facto cycling social media network.

jeffbee 4y ago
> I've ... made some very good friends. This is my experience. Strava is the only social network where I've made friends. It is a net positive in life. Every other social network I tried to use caused me to fire some friends eventually.
- jq-r 4y ago
  Funnily enough, it pretty much broke apart our weekend riding group. That was a mountain bike group, and in my city there were about 20 of us on those rides depending on a season. It didn't matter who was the fastest uphill or downhill, or who was the bravest to go on some scary drops and jumps. It was always just about having fun whatever your abilities are. It was always damned fun on those group rides. Ride a lot, talk a lot, enjoy the greenery and fresh air, beer at the end, what's not to like? But little by little, and then all of the sudden, everyone had Strava, nobody wanted to rest on a nice place to stop, it was always segments, segments, and more segments. People didn't want session some nice jump or a section, it was always a white knuckle ride top to bottom with no technique, or fun, and just furious time comparisons on the end of segments. People would even heatedly argue about them too, and some riders I know don't talk to each other anymore because of it. Forget about chatting while riding, how you can chat if your heart is pounding and you're chasing that elusive KOM? So with time, that diverse group fractured because the slower guys couldn't keep up with the "I only ride segments" guys, and smaller groups formed, but those were actually quite short lived. Some of those still ride, but mostly solos or in very small groups which is quite sad to me. I guess Strava can definitely help you out if you're riding a road bike to find a group which suits your ability. I guess in every city you can have plenty to choose from. But that just doesn't work if your area has say 50 riders in total. Segments in the mountain are great, but only if you ride alone like a training, just don't drag a mountain bike group into it. Just to make it clear, I don't blame Strava here at all, it is just people who get obssessed by numbers and see rivalry when none exist. Or as the saying goes: comparison is a thief of joy.
Alex3917 4y ago
And that would be a great value at $3-4 a month, but at double that, meh.
jwineinger 4y ago
What features of Strava have helped with that? Did you find a local cycling group on Strava and met up with people via that? I seem to be a cycling (or at least group riding) dead zone, because there don't seem to be any active groups near me. I get kudos from friends afar but the only person that Strava helped me connect with was someone that I chatted briefly at a stoplight with, who then found me via Strava flyover. But even then, we've never ridden together since.
- rday 4y ago
  Flyover also helped me connect with groups that I would see riding in other directions. Since flyover was made opt-in, I haven't gotten any use out of it. Opt-in is probably a really good idea, even though it killed the feature. I really liked that feature. But yea, it was too easy to abuse. Are you able to see any frequent routes using the global heat map?
- nradov 4y ago
  Use the flyover feature and segment leaderboards to identify users active in your area, then check which clubs they have joined. Some of those clubs might have a weekly group ride either listed as a Strava event, or on a linked web site or Facebook group. Many bike shops also organize a weekly group ride as a marketing strategy. If you're already coming there to ride then there's a good chance you'll buy something or use their mechanic service.
mbesto 4y ago
> It's the social feature. Agreed. But this is a feature that only works on a free model. I'm not aware of any major social network makes money on 100% of its user community.
- kaesar14 4y ago
  You’re not wrong but “no one’s done it so no one should ever even try” isn’t a good reason
Lio 4y ago
As a current subscriber I'm not sure I agree with this. Yes Strava does do social stuff but they're a mixed bag and also free. I like that they don't do aggressive surveillance as a business model (it's one of the reasons I subscribe) but it's also pretty useless for organising and planning future rides. Lots of people comment and give kudos after an event's happened but I don't know anyone using Strava to agree meeting up somewhere. All of that side of things seems to happen on Signal, Whatsapp or FB here. I do like the route planning but I'm not sure I'll continue to subscribe just for that given the new prices.
- prhn 4y ago
  I 100% agree with your criticisms. That was my point. Strava’s main feature is the social element, but they are not really maximizing the leverage they have with install base. Compare Zwift. I can log in and join a group ride at just about any time of the day. Now, I know that’s not a completely fair comparison because Zwift is online so it always has access to way more riders, but where is the analogue in Strava?
  - Lio 4y ago
    Ah right, yep that makes perfect sense and I agree on the comparison with Zwift too. Strava are in a unique position compared to Garmin Connect. Whist I use Garmin and they seem to be the most popular bike computers I still know lots of people in my cycling club that use Wahoo or Hammerhead units. Strava is the place that everyone comes together after a ride.

jlarocco 4y ago

I think the bigger problem is that their users all have accounts on competing services by this point. By the time they got serious about adding features, everybody who wanted them had already signed up for alternative services that had them. Now Strava is playing catch up with a bunch of newer companies, and each one them is focused on a subset of Strava's users. For me, I signed up for RideWithGPS ages before Strava had a good route planner. Now Strava has one, but now I'm happy with RWGPS and don't have any reason to switch back. Other people wanted better training tools, and they found services that helped with that. Meanwhile, we've all kept our Strava accounts, because that's where the leaderboards and groups are.

scoofy 4y ago

Yea, I "left" the app when they started forcing me to pay. After a year of paying for it, I just couldn't justify paying that much money just to compete, racing along the inherently flawed timed segments. It's an amazing app, and I'd love to pay them for it, but unless they were to start releasing hardware that allowed me to see and meet up with my friends while riding, it's hard to justify hundreds of dollars just for something that my garmin or google maps/ridewithgps already does by default.

nradov 4y ago

The endurance athletes who care about data use Garmin Connect, TrainingPeaks, and WKO for tracking and analytics. Strava's analytics and workout planning features are basically useless. Where Strava adds value is as a social network. It's fun to share your activities and pictures with friends, and see what they have been doing. I've gotten good ideas for routes to try or races to enter. As a long time Strava user it is frustrating to see how it has been stagnant for many years and they almost never add useful improvements. They still don't support triathlons (or any other multisport activities). Many of the segment and challenge leaderboards are full of obvious cheaters.