10 ms·

Yet another keyboard post, or, introducing ErgoNICE

163 points by JNRowe 4y ago

ctvo 4y ago
With my hybrid work schedule I’m looking for more portability, and less keys. This isn’t for me, but neat. I also use an ortho layout, but find the whole community trying to justify it as better for you ergonomically to be unconvincing. There’s little data that says ortho has any health benefits over staggered. We have data on the position and alignment of the wrist being the biggest factor, and you can achieve this with either style. > This is the physical layout, so you see QWERTY here. I actually type on Colemak though! How do you know if someone uses an alternative key layout? They’ll tell you.
- squeegee_scream 4y ago
  If you're looking for portability with ergonomics I've been very interested in following Ben Vallack's advice in this video https://invidious.weblibre.org/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM https://invidious.weblibre.org/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM, which is to take a small keyboard like the gergoplex[0] and strap it to your thighs with a giant rubber band. You may also be interested in https://southpawdesign.net/collections/all https://southpawdesign.net/collections/all as they have a few small, ergonomic keyboards. [0]: https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex-heavy https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex-heavy
  - 83 4y ago
    I've been looking for a gergoplex but gboards.ca has been down for a long time. If you read the later blog posts on web.archive it's a sad situation, I doubt it'll be back online.
- rgoulter 4y ago
  > There’s little data that says ortho has any health benefits over staggered. Sure. But the standard row-stagger is asymmetrical; the way a hand types with the left hand is not mirrored by the right hand. I'd be very surprised if that was as ergonomic as a symmetrical layout.
  - 323 4y ago
    > But the standard row-stagger is asymmetrical; the way a hand types with the left hand is not mirrored by the right hand. How is it asymmetrical? Unless you consider the right hand typing on the numpad/cursor keys.
    - the_gastropod 4y ago
      On a QWERTY keyboard, think about the letters "I" and "E", which the middle fingers on your right and left hands respectively would hit. Both require your middle finger to reach up and slightly left. It's not a mirrored movement—both skew left. The stagger breaks symmetry of any non-home row finger movements.
      - 323 4y ago
        I think I see it, it seems to me that my finger naturally wants to hit in between "E" and "R", but it hits exactly on top of "I". So ortho fixes this, but could it then introduce problems for other pairs? It seems hard to believe that there is a layout which is 100% better for all combinations. Regarding symmetry, our hands are already asymmetrical due to handiness (left-handed, right-handed), and the brain naturally adapts, and there is also the risk of Hawthorne effect if you A/B test ortho/staggered. Some real studies on layouts would really be useful.
        gigaflop 4y ago
        Ortholinear can be interpreted as 0 stagger, but still takes time to adjust to. However, when I was using ortho at work and ANSI at home, it didn't take much effort for me to alternate. Ortho layouts are also most often used on compact boards, and the Preonic (5x12 grid, '50%' form factor) is probably the most 'plug and use' friendly ortho I've come across.
    - rgoulter 4y ago
      Consider the index-finger columns: On the LHS, the index-finger RFV. The finger rests on the homing key F, with R to the left. On the RHS, the index-finger column is UJM. The finger rests on the homing key F, with U also to the left of F. I'd consider (say) a Katana keyboard to have a symmetrical row-stagger.
- gigaflop 4y ago
  When I worked in an office, one of my favorite boards to bring to/from was a Tokyo60. 60% HHKB-ish layout, split backspace, ctrl-instead-of-caps, and a classy aluminum case. If you're curious enough to get into designing your own, there are much simpler guides than the OP here, if you know what you want to accomplish.
- jurassic 4y ago
  I have no problem admitting my interest in ortho layouts is mostly an aesthetic preference. At home where I can spread out I'm quite content with my Ergodox. But for travel, I find my 2x2u Preonic quite comfy... all the keys you need, none that you don't, with only a minimimum of layers needed.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  > How do you know if someone uses an alternative key layout? They’ll tell you. It is a post about a keyboard; if you don't want to hear about keyboard related topics, maybe consider reading different posts.
  - bool3max 4y ago
    Pipe down, it's just a joke.
- Bedon292 4y ago
  Yeah, a split keyboard and traveling back and forth is not so fun. When I was in the office full time it just stayed there, since 95% of my typing was done there. Now I am home the vast majority of the time, and it stays home. I just have a 60% keyboard I use for travel, not my favorite but it gets the job done and travels easy.
- ilyt 4y ago
  I just bought cheap mechanical keyboard and left it at work
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    I bought an expensive mechanical keyboard and left it at work. (My current job would have paid for it, but it's from before that.) I type at work far more than at home.
wussboy 4y ago
I’ll always upvote a Colemak user. Looks nice!
- Pet_Ant 4y ago
  I think Dvorak is the only alternate the makes sense to use because it's supported most places. You can easily get a new device and set it for Dvorak. Anything else and you are now Googling for guides. I have Dvorak on my Mac, iPhone, Windows, and Chromebook. If I have to help a co-worker on their machine I can quickly switch it over. That said I will not purport that Dvorak is better in any technical way that the other alts. For me the switch was to force me to break my bad typing habits and learn to touch type.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    How long did it take to get to the point where Dvorak wasn’t frustrating? (Not necessarily to equal speed, but to at least non-distracting/non-aggravating.)
    - deliriumchn 4y ago
      For me personally it took 2 months to "fully" adjust (meaning I can type without looking at the keyboard but every now and then I make a typo and need to correct it). I used this -> https://www.keybr.com/ https://www.keybr.com/ almost every day. You can just set preferred layout without actually changing your keyboard's settings and it have very nice "teaching" sessions. Tbh I don't notice a huge difference, its more comfortable but sometimes I have a brain lag when I need to type on my phone since its on qwerty. Ergo layouts tends to be worse on mobile (because ergo usually have common letters close to each other and its not very cool on a small screen, qwerty is suprisingly one o f the best for smartphone's 2 thumb style)
      - hersko 4y ago
        Very cool site! Thanks for the recommendation!
    - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
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bryanlarsen 4y ago
I upvoted because of the PostScript, which has nothing to do with keyboards.
- black_puppydog 4y ago
  Yeah, next to the actual article I really thought people might notice that more. I'm glad they seem to be in a slightly better place now at least... The patreon is currently mostly empty, seems like a good candidate if you're into keyboards and other nerdery. :)
rgoulter 4y ago
> One can try to get away with very few keys ... The first thing I added was two columns on the right side that kinda just bring back the punctuation I'd say if you look at a layout like miryoku https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku .. in miryoku, the [] keys are one row up from home row, accessed on a layer. Whereas, putting [] on outer columns, your hand has to move and reach over two rows. That is, I'd emphasise layering brings more keys to within easy access of the fingers (at the cost of added complexity to use the keyboard, - which not everyone has the taste for).
- rollcat 4y ago
  This idea falls apart in games that use complex key combinations, or a lot of different keys (like in case of StarCraft 2). I have an ErgoDox and I wish it had an extra dedicated row for F-keys; my current use of the bottom row for camera hotkeys is a very poor compromise. http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/8b8dcd36c0abccf430b4160ad899b879 http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/8b8dcd36c0abcc... https://gist.github.com/rollcat/8b8dcd36c0abccf430b4160ad899b879 https://gist.github.com/rollcat/8b8dcd36c0abccf430b4160ad899...
  - rgoulter 4y ago
    Yeah. For two-hands-on-keyboard tasks, relying on layering is good. For gaming, I make use of a number row.
  - gigaflop 4y ago
    I pity the poor soul who needs to use multiple key layers in a game, especially SC2. But if you got past Silver League, then you're better than I was in Wings of Liberty. I remember using AutoHotKey back then to swap caps lock and CTRL (or was Backspace in there somewhere?) to cycle through my hatcheries and spam larvae injects, since they weren't queue-able at that time.
    - rollcat 4y ago
      I have a single, dedicated layer for SC2. I didn't play WoL, non-queuing injects sounds like a nightmare! Backspace (next base cam) inject is still a thing, but it's not really recommended: it tends to send different queens towards different hatcheries, delaying the injects. Again I didn't play WoL so I don't know which keys were re-bindable in the client at the time, but currently you can use almost anything for anything (except you can't change the modifiers like ctrl, shift, alt); those who use base cam inject will sometimes bind it to space.
323 4y ago
All keyboard should have volume wheels. I couldn't live without one now. The ones oriented like a mouse wheel, but wide (as opposed to the ones sitting like a volume knob on a mixer) are very natural to use and unobtrusive.
- gigaflop 4y ago
  If you were to get your hands on a QMK/VIA-powered keyboard, you could tweak the firmware for your own Fn+(anything) to map to Vol+, Vol-. Not the same, but you could have this 'under your fingertips' at all times. I tried this a while ago, but never used it much. I end up leaving my system volume at predictable levels most of the time, and ended up rebinding my arrow cluster's extra layer for Prev/Next song, which got much more use.
  - bloopernova 4y ago
    I love my QMK Ploopy mouse. I use on of the buttons as a layer change, which gets me access to extras I added. Stuff like paste and plain text paste are super useful. (On MacOS plain text paste is shift+option+command+p)
- ilyt 4y ago
  I remember ages ago I had keyboard with big scroll wheel on the left , super convenient. Currently due to many sources (PC, console, occasional synthesizer, BT receiver) I just have small mixer between my PC and speakers and it is super convenient. I actually considered hacking something akin to 3-4 encoders with display showing current app making sound and giving option to change the volume of that app
tbran 4y ago
Ben Valleck has an ultra-approachable video on building your own keyboard [0]. PCBs are incredibly cheap to print (<$25 shipped for me to print at https://jlcpcb.com https://jlcpcb.com, IIRC), and he shows you how to do some mods to the schematic using KiCad [1]. BV also has some crazier minimal keyboard designs like this 18-key split one with lots of layers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNOGEtqn85o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNOGEtqn85o [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqpBKuEVinw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqpBKuEVinw [1]: https://www.kicad.org/ https://www.kicad.org/
- gigaflop 4y ago
  I'm also gonna link the ai03 tutorial I used to design/build my own custom board. Text based, multiple pages: https://wiki.ai03.com/books/pcb-design/page/pcb-guide-part-1---preparations https://wiki.ai03.com/books/pcb-design/page/pcb-guide-part-1... Once you build your first little macropad, and verify that your design is generally correct, you can fork the repo you created and pretty much copy/paste your MCU region, and build a new grid of keys around it. The guide also gave me good tips on what to have assembled, and what to hand-solder, to be able to cut some costs.
- riskable 4y ago
  I made my own tutorial about how to design your own analog keyboard: https://youtu.be/TfKz_FbZWLQ https://youtu.be/TfKz_FbZWLQ It's ultimately the same process I used to create my Analog Hall Effect Keyboard that was reviewed by Chyrosran22 recently: https://youtu.be/iv6Rh8UNWlI https://youtu.be/iv6Rh8UNWlI
  - utopcell 4y ago
    hey riskable, thanks for making these vids and for sharing knowledge about your 3d-printed hall-effect keys; keep them coming! :-)
jurassic 4y ago
I haven't quite reached this level yet with the keyboard hobby, but reading this post feels a bit like looking into my future. I've soldered together a few kits designed by others and have been itching to try my hand at designing my own layout fully from scratch. Not that I need it, I'm quite happy with my current stable of keyboards, but because I think it would be a fun way to learn more about electronics. In case anyone is interested, there are also people who hand-wire keyboards. This lets you explore funky custom layouts without having to learn the circuit design and manufacturing side. I came across this pretty detailed guide recently. https://www.crackedthecode.co/a-complete-guide-to-building-a-hand-wired-keyboard/ https://www.crackedthecode.co/a-complete-guide-to-building-a...
Bedon292 4y ago
I love having a split keyboard. It feels far more ergonomic than a single piece keyboard. Just relax your arms and put each half where your hands are. No having to bring your hands together and angle your wrists to get your hands in position. The other piece of the puzzle for me is curvature. On a flat keyboard there is more stretching or physically moving but adding in a bit of curvature helps cut down on that. For a few years now I have been using a hand wired Dactyl-ManuForm [1] and it has been great. At least for writing / programming. I go back to a regular keyboard for gaming purposes. [1] https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard
- cleak 4y ago
  The split and relaxed shoulders are amazing. I really wish more tech would try this approach. The Wii controller (Wiimote + Nunchuck) was my favorite controller for this reason and I have yet to find anything as ergonomic.
  - CarVac 4y ago
    The ASCII Gamecube Controller is very relaxing for this reason too.
    - lukas099 4y ago
      TIL there was a GameCube controller with a keyboard on it: https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/ASCII_Keyboard_Controller https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/ASCII_Keyboard_Controller
  - frosted-flakes 4y ago
    You can do the same thing with the Nintendo Switch controllers. It's my favourite way to play.
  - wildrhythms 4y ago
    Yes! I always use the Joycons like this. Just rest them however I'm comfortable. Although the rectangular shape makes them uncomfortable to hold in the hand for too long which is a shame.
rrgok 4y ago
I wanted to thank the author for the thorough blog post on how to create a new keyboard from scratch. Just a note, please add where you print the PCB, Case ecc.. Thank you.
- bschwindHN 4y ago
  The author mentions JLCPCB quite a few times in the article, and specifically says "I printed on such and such printer"
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
Slightly off topic has anybody found a small footprint touchpad to keep close by to a split keyboard? Similar to the touchpad on the 'Ultimate Hacking Keyboard v2' but standalone without the pogo pins coupling part? [0] [0] https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/product/touchpad https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/product/touchpad
- danielheath 4y ago
  Keymouse have a model with a trackball under each thumb, and a model where each half is a mouse as well as being a keyboard.
- squidbot 4y ago
  Not sure how small you're wanting, but Kinesis sells the Cirque EasyCat AG which is 3.3"x2.6". I've not used it myself, but I do have the Freestyle Pro keyboard, which I absolutely love and is very high quality, so I'd guess the rest of the products are similar. https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/cirque-easycat-ag/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/cirque-easycat-ag/
  - DoingIsLearning 4y ago
    This definitely fits what I was look for, thank you for the sugestion! I was not familiar with Cirque.
- mathgorges 4y ago
  I use an Apple Magic Trackpad 2. Probably not "small", but it fits between the two halves of my Moonlander quite nicely :)
  - 1-more 4y ago
    Same with an Iris
  - Analemma_ 4y ago
    I also have a UHK and a Magic Trackpad and just keep it between the halves. It enforces proper separation, since without it I tend to default to keeping the halves too close together, and while the modules partially overlap the corners, there's still more than enough usable space.
bschwindHN 4y ago
Not sure if the author of the post is around, but I guess this is a question for anyone who has designed keyboards: have you ever tried using shift registers for reading all the keyswitch inputs, and is it worth it? Does it mean you don't have to use a diode per switch? I've designed my own as well but just went with the traditional key matrix with a diode per switch. Works well enough for the current size. https://github.com/bschwind/key-ripper https://github.com/bschwind/key-ripper
- mzzter 4y ago
  Last time i researched adding shift registers was over a year ago and I didn’t find many examples (I vaguely recall one possibly with qmk), and very little public discussion besides a reddit question. Popular guides like ai03’s at the time recommended upgrading to a microcontroller with more gpio before introducing shift registers. Searching again, looks like zmk added support for the common 595 shift register: https://github.com/zmkfirmware/zmk/pull/1325 https://github.com/zmkfirmware/zmk/pull/1325 Edit: You could avoid using diodes, but diodes increase the number of switches possible via a matrix more than shift registers do by giving you more gpio. I’d imagine one can use both together.
- gmbuell 4y ago
  This kind of thing is really common in the DIY synthesizer world. Here's a great resource: http://www.openmusiclabs.com/learning/digital/input-matrix-scanning/index.html http://www.openmusiclabs.com/learning/digital/input-matrix-s...
- riskable 4y ago
  My analog keyboards use analog multiplexers (74HC4067) which is similar to how shift registers work. Except they're full of flip-flops (2-way) instead of digital logic. I made two videos talking about how I design my analog keyboard PCBs and how I'm using analog multiplexers here: https://youtu.be/TfKz_FbZWLQ https://youtu.be/TfKz_FbZWLQ
- jsmith45 4y ago
  Shift registers are an interesting option. They are obviously feasible, especially if using ones with a built in pull-down. They do avoid having a diode per key, in exchange for needing a chip for N keys, where n is the number of of parallel inputs in your parallel to serial shift register. They can also save IO lines. Obviously with if using chainable shift registers, you can have an unlimited number of keys with just 3 IO lines. More realistic of course, would be to use several IO lines in parallel. For a 64 key matrix, one could say use 8, 8-bit shift registers, each connected to one input line, plus one output latch line and one output clock line (for a total of 10), vs the 16 lines needed traditional matrix. 8 input lines is nice, because if you pick the I/O lines right, retrieving the values is just a single port read. Making the procedure: latch, (toggle clock twice, read port, write to next location in memory buffer) x8. There are of course downsides, like shift registers needing more board space than tiny surface mount diodes, but this is not necessarily a deal-killer.
izzydata 4y ago
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who can't type on this kind of keyboard because I often use my left hand to type some right side keys and my right hand to type some left side keys. I'd constantly be clicking off into the air on this thing. I can type near 150wpm, but it is a completely random style that mostly only follows using whatever finger happens to be closest to the next key regardless of which hand it is after leaving every finger wherever it was last used.
- jrkatz 4y ago
  I was in a similar position, but highly motivated to switch due to advancing RSI symptoms. I waited to switch until a low-code, long-duration project came across my desk and was pleasantly surprised by how quickly my old habits were replaced. The trick seems to be that with split keyboards (especially orthilinear models) the finger closest to the next key is usually the one you ought to use anyhow. When home-row is mandatory, it's easy. After a month or so at most, I was back to full speed. It did ruin me for laptop keyboards, though, I can't type on those at all anymore.
  - 3np 4y ago
    Similar experience, except I was surprised to find that my laptop typing have actually been improving without trying despite (or due to?) also using a qwerty but otherwise quite different layout.
- wishinghand 4y ago
  I'm a bit of a n00b for QMK firmware based keyboards, but I think there is a function for flipping the mapping of each side so you can do stuff like that.
- Skeime 4y ago
  I think you’d be constantly doing that for like two days. Then you would adapt and stop using the wrong hand. (Provided that you don’t use another keyboard simultaneously that let’s you keep going with the old habit.)
- yes_but_no 4y ago
rychco 4y ago
I've been toying with the idea of designing my own keyboard too. I'm in love with the keeb.io iris & ergodox EZ. They're both pretty awesome, but now I'm thinking I would love to be able to take my split/iris everywhere by using choc low-profile switches & a case that would let me snap the two sides together, face-to-face, such that I could slip it in my backpack along with my laptop (and maybe some extra keys here & there).
- gigaflop 4y ago
  If you don't need to have the halves be fully separated, you can have an easy time designing a custom PCB, assuming that you can get good/accurate footprints for the switches you want to use. The below PCB is meant to be 'like a Preonic, but with 2x2u spaces, and full 5x12 grid'. Diode placement is aesthetic, but serves as a way to fill the 'dead space' between the main halves. https://i.imgur.com/Krd3dfE.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/Krd3dfE.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/78KWmuV.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/78KWmuV.jpeg Whether you use 2d design to make a stacked/layered case, or 3d printing, you could probably jank-design a top cover to go along with your own custom build.
  - jurassic 4y ago
    The latest iteration of the Preonic already supports 2x2u configuration. But some extra space between hands would be welcome.
    - gigaflop 4y ago
      Oh, but here's the thing: I wanted 5x12, and 2x2u. I also wanted to make it compatible with existing 5x12 keymaps, for ease of firmware tweaking. I have an assembled proto, and while it was rough around the edges, it was fun to use. The case was made of laser-cut sheet metal bolted together with standoffs, and the switch plate had a cutout in the center to show off those banked diodes.
bloopernova 4y ago
What I want in a split keyboard is rollers or wheels built into the inside edges of the 2 halves. That would let my thumbs reach them pretty easily, and because they're mostly hidden within the keyboard body like a mouse wheel they wouldn't be wasting precious key space.
- bloopernova 4y ago
  I mean, dials are nice, but I prefer mouse wheel style if the interface doesn't require that you see the whole dial at once.
nix0n 4y ago
In Gamecube modding it is common to cut apart a Wii motherboard. Would it be possible to create a split keyboard by cutting apart multiple cheap full keyboards?
- gigaflop 4y ago
  You totally could, if you were willing to re-solder all of the cut traces. But at that point, you'd be better served by buying a kit to assemble. Custom firmware, choice of key switches, and choice of keycaps are not going to be available if you apply the hacksaw method to cheapo $5 boards.
wellthisisgreat 4y ago
this is really nice and I am actually designing a very similar board right now. People online kept telling me that 'Ergo' means it should have <40 keys, but sorry no, the desk real estate is very cheap and I can use a 70-80 key keyboard as a 40-key keyboard just fine. Having a tiny finger-cramping device just so it looks "clean" is worse than Apple slimming down their phones. I forsee a minor surge of full-size split ergos and that's a great thing.
- Matrixik 4y ago
  Hopefully, there is surprising lack of ergonomic keyboards with function keys. That's basically the most important reason I'm waiting for moergo glove80 to arrive. But I would also like to have something flat and thin with low profile switches for portable usage.
jjcm 4y ago
You may want to be careful with naming, as Nice Technologies LLC makes very similar PCBs for mechanical keyboards: https://nicekeyboards.com/ https://nicekeyboards.com/ IANAL, but if they have a trademark for "NICE" in relation to keyboards, yours may be in violation.
lolive 4y ago
Just bought my first "strange" keyboard from Keychron (it is pre-built, and programmable with VIA). I hope I can hardwire there all my (actually implemented with) .Xmodmap tricks, and make them available on both Windows and Linux. This kind of article just shows me what I will become in a few years if that first experience indeed succeeds.
- panda88888 4y ago
  Did you get the Alice layout? How is it working out for you? I’ve been interested to get one myself.
- amalgamated_inc 4y ago
  I also just got a Keychron (K3 Pro), and I'm liking it a lot. Great look and feel, types well. Clean design.
  - c0nsumer 4y ago
    I just got a K3 (non-pro) last Friday and I'm mostly liking it. For years I used an Apple Magic Keyboard Pro (or whatever the wired full size keyboard like it is) and really liked it, but wanted something narrower and without the 10-key so I could move the mouse closer to the centerline of my body. So far it's been good, but there's a couple things that are taking some getting used to: 1) The spacer bar is wider than on either the Apple keyboard or any of my HP laptops. I hit space with my pointer fingers, sometimes right sometimes left, and I keep accidentally hitting the Command key along with space, and popping up Spotlight on top of whatever I'm doing. 2) The delete key is in a funny position. I almost wish it was where the backlight key is. I guess if I'd gotten the Pro keyboard I could remap it. 3) The lack of eject key means I've lost my Ctrl-Shift-Eject shortcut for immediately blanking the screen. Not huge, but I liked being able to do this on demand. Otherwise, it only took a few days to get accustomed to the greater key travel and I think I like it. Although I have half a mind to return it and get the Pro now, just to fix the Delete key... And maybe I can make the backlight key be some combo, and I can restore eject?
    - 4y ago
cgwu 4y ago
I tried giving "split" keyboard a shot a few years back, but unfortunately it never worked...
UI_at_80x24 4y ago
I currently use a Model-M clone. It's 75% of the way to perfect for me. This is my gold-tier wish list: Bucking-Springs split-keyboard WHITE backlight under the keys (I can touch type, but after 35+ years I still "gaze unfocused" and take in all the keys)
- gigaflop 4y ago
  If you can settle for MX-style switches that have a very satisfying click, then I'd like to point you to Kailh Box switches. There's a bunch of variations, but Box Jade or Pink (from NovelKeys) have been my favorites. The tactility is very well defined, and the tactile mechanism (click bar) is IMO better than Cherry-style click jackets, like seen in Cherry Blues. A split keeb with a white backlight that accepts MX-footprint switches should be simple to find.
  - Tsiklon 4y ago
    And if you fancy getting more 'Boutique' there's always the ZealPC "Clickiez" which are a reinvention of the ALPS style of click mechanism in an MX compatible chassis. Fabulous (but expensive) switches.
- digitallyfree 4y ago
  I use an actual IBM Model M from the 90s and absolutely love the feel of the buckling springs. Modern Cherry mech switches are obviously better than membranes, but they simply can't replicate the sound and tactile "jump" that occurs when the key triggers.
- TacticalCoder 4y ago
  No idea about the white backlight but... > This is my gold-tier wish list: > Bucking-Springs > split-keyboard Model M M15: it's split. It's a collector item though.
- sleepybrett 4y ago
  Get the brand new model f is you want buckling springs.
- 4y ago
jollyllama 4y ago
>goes to all that effort >not cupped Probably better off going with a Matias then.
sleepybrett 4y ago
these flat kinesis advantage clones give me cramps. Just buy an advantage or build a dactyl-like
- microtonal 4y ago
  Yeah, I think homebrew keyboards are converging to a local optimum because 2D is much easier. Take a PCB, solder or hotswap the swithches, add some acrylic plates or a simple 3D print and you are done. Dactyl-like keyboards require a 3D printer, long printing times, sanding down imperfections, etc. And then the palm support story is not great. The homebrew market is ready to be disrupted by someone who sells injection-molded components for curved keyboards, so that it can move out of this local optimum. Maltron sells separate cases, but the design is dated. Until then, I agree, just get an Advantage or maybe Glove80.
  - sleepybrett 4y ago
    I built a dactyl on a TAZ4. Barely had to sand anything. Few etsy shops around that will sell you the prints if you lack a printer. Noticing a lot of used Advantage 2s on the market for cheap now that people are buying up the 360/pro.
  - sleepybrett 4y ago
    Sure, 2d pcbs are certainly easier to design and get run. However there are a few people I've seen in the niche of a niche which is 'non flat keyboards' that are getting flex pcbs run for dactyls and their kin.
transfire 4y ago
I have a keyboard design I’d like to have made. But I don’t have the time to do it all myself. Are the any services out there for this sort of thing?

163 points by JNRowe 4y ago

ctvo 4y ago

With my hybrid work schedule I’m looking for more portability, and less keys. This isn’t for me, but neat. I also use an ortho layout, but find the whole community trying to justify it as better for you ergonomically to be unconvincing. There’s little data that says ortho has any health benefits over staggered. We have data on the position and alignment of the wrist being the biggest factor, and you can achieve this with either style. > This is the physical layout, so you see QWERTY here. I actually type on Colemak though! How do you know if someone uses an alternative key layout? They’ll tell you.

squeegee_scream 4y ago
If you're looking for portability with ergonomics I've been very interested in following Ben Vallack's advice in this video https://invidious.weblibre.org/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM https://invidious.weblibre.org/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM, which is to take a small keyboard like the gergoplex[0] and strap it to your thighs with a giant rubber band. You may also be interested in https://southpawdesign.net/collections/all https://southpawdesign.net/collections/all as they have a few small, ergonomic keyboards. [0]: https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex-heavy https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex-heavy
- 83 4y ago
  I've been looking for a gergoplex but gboards.ca has been down for a long time. If you read the later blog posts on web.archive it's a sad situation, I doubt it'll be back online.
rgoulter 4y ago
> There’s little data that says ortho has any health benefits over staggered. Sure. But the standard row-stagger is asymmetrical; the way a hand types with the left hand is not mirrored by the right hand. I'd be very surprised if that was as ergonomic as a symmetrical layout.
- 323 4y ago
  > But the standard row-stagger is asymmetrical; the way a hand types with the left hand is not mirrored by the right hand. How is it asymmetrical? Unless you consider the right hand typing on the numpad/cursor keys.
  - the_gastropod 4y ago
    On a QWERTY keyboard, think about the letters "I" and "E", which the middle fingers on your right and left hands respectively would hit. Both require your middle finger to reach up and slightly left. It's not a mirrored movement—both skew left. The stagger breaks symmetry of any non-home row finger movements.
    - 323 4y ago
      I think I see it, it seems to me that my finger naturally wants to hit in between "E" and "R", but it hits exactly on top of "I". So ortho fixes this, but could it then introduce problems for other pairs? It seems hard to believe that there is a layout which is 100% better for all combinations. Regarding symmetry, our hands are already asymmetrical due to handiness (left-handed, right-handed), and the brain naturally adapts, and there is also the risk of Hawthorne effect if you A/B test ortho/staggered. Some real studies on layouts would really be useful.
      - gigaflop 4y ago
        Ortholinear can be interpreted as 0 stagger, but still takes time to adjust to. However, when I was using ortho at work and ANSI at home, it didn't take much effort for me to alternate. Ortho layouts are also most often used on compact boards, and the Preonic (5x12 grid, '50%' form factor) is probably the most 'plug and use' friendly ortho I've come across.
  - rgoulter 4y ago
    Consider the index-finger columns: On the LHS, the index-finger RFV. The finger rests on the homing key F, with R to the left. On the RHS, the index-finger column is UJM. The finger rests on the homing key F, with U also to the left of F. I'd consider (say) a Katana keyboard to have a symmetrical row-stagger.
gigaflop 4y ago
When I worked in an office, one of my favorite boards to bring to/from was a Tokyo60. 60% HHKB-ish layout, split backspace, ctrl-instead-of-caps, and a classy aluminum case. If you're curious enough to get into designing your own, there are much simpler guides than the OP here, if you know what you want to accomplish.
jurassic 4y ago
I have no problem admitting my interest in ortho layouts is mostly an aesthetic preference. At home where I can spread out I'm quite content with my Ergodox. But for travel, I find my 2x2u Preonic quite comfy... all the keys you need, none that you don't, with only a minimimum of layers needed.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> How do you know if someone uses an alternative key layout? They’ll tell you. It is a post about a keyboard; if you don't want to hear about keyboard related topics, maybe consider reading different posts.
- bool3max 4y ago
  Pipe down, it's just a joke.
Bedon292 4y ago
Yeah, a split keyboard and traveling back and forth is not so fun. When I was in the office full time it just stayed there, since 95% of my typing was done there. Now I am home the vast majority of the time, and it stays home. I just have a 60% keyboard I use for travel, not my favorite but it gets the job done and travels easy.
ilyt 4y ago
I just bought cheap mechanical keyboard and left it at work
- Symbiote 4y ago
  I bought an expensive mechanical keyboard and left it at work. (My current job would have paid for it, but it's from before that.) I type at work far more than at home.

wussboy 4y ago

I’ll always upvote a Colemak user. Looks nice!

Pet_Ant 4y ago
I think Dvorak is the only alternate the makes sense to use because it's supported most places. You can easily get a new device and set it for Dvorak. Anything else and you are now Googling for guides. I have Dvorak on my Mac, iPhone, Windows, and Chromebook. If I have to help a co-worker on their machine I can quickly switch it over. That said I will not purport that Dvorak is better in any technical way that the other alts. For me the switch was to force me to break my bad typing habits and learn to touch type.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  How long did it take to get to the point where Dvorak wasn’t frustrating? (Not necessarily to equal speed, but to at least non-distracting/non-aggravating.)
  - deliriumchn 4y ago
    For me personally it took 2 months to "fully" adjust (meaning I can type without looking at the keyboard but every now and then I make a typo and need to correct it). I used this -> https://www.keybr.com/ https://www.keybr.com/ almost every day. You can just set preferred layout without actually changing your keyboard's settings and it have very nice "teaching" sessions. Tbh I don't notice a huge difference, its more comfortable but sometimes I have a brain lag when I need to type on my phone since its on qwerty. Ergo layouts tends to be worse on mobile (because ergo usually have common letters close to each other and its not very cool on a small screen, qwerty is suprisingly one o f the best for smartphone's 2 thumb style)
    - hersko 4y ago
      Very cool site! Thanks for the recommendation!
  - 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bryanlarsen 4y ago

I upvoted because of the PostScript, which has nothing to do with keyboards.

black_puppydog 4y ago
Yeah, next to the actual article I really thought people might notice that more. I'm glad they seem to be in a slightly better place now at least... The patreon is currently mostly empty, seems like a good candidate if you're into keyboards and other nerdery. :)

rgoulter 4y ago

> One can try to get away with very few keys ... The first thing I added was two columns on the right side that kinda just bring back the punctuation I'd say if you look at a layout like miryoku https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku .. in miryoku, the [] keys are one row up from home row, accessed on a layer. Whereas, putting [] on outer columns, your hand has to move and reach over two rows. That is, I'd emphasise layering brings more keys to within easy access of the fingers (at the cost of added complexity to use the keyboard, - which not everyone has the taste for).

rollcat 4y ago
This idea falls apart in games that use complex key combinations, or a lot of different keys (like in case of StarCraft 2). I have an ErgoDox and I wish it had an extra dedicated row for F-keys; my current use of the bottom row for camera hotkeys is a very poor compromise. http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/8b8dcd36c0abccf430b4160ad899b879 http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/8b8dcd36c0abcc... https://gist.github.com/rollcat/8b8dcd36c0abccf430b4160ad899b879 https://gist.github.com/rollcat/8b8dcd36c0abccf430b4160ad899...
- rgoulter 4y ago
  Yeah. For two-hands-on-keyboard tasks, relying on layering is good. For gaming, I make use of a number row.
- gigaflop 4y ago
  I pity the poor soul who needs to use multiple key layers in a game, especially SC2. But if you got past Silver League, then you're better than I was in Wings of Liberty. I remember using AutoHotKey back then to swap caps lock and CTRL (or was Backspace in there somewhere?) to cycle through my hatcheries and spam larvae injects, since they weren't queue-able at that time.
  - rollcat 4y ago
    I have a single, dedicated layer for SC2. I didn't play WoL, non-queuing injects sounds like a nightmare! Backspace (next base cam) inject is still a thing, but it's not really recommended: it tends to send different queens towards different hatcheries, delaying the injects. Again I didn't play WoL so I don't know which keys were re-bindable in the client at the time, but currently you can use almost anything for anything (except you can't change the modifiers like ctrl, shift, alt); those who use base cam inject will sometimes bind it to space.

323 4y ago

All keyboard should have volume wheels. I couldn't live without one now. The ones oriented like a mouse wheel, but wide (as opposed to the ones sitting like a volume knob on a mixer) are very natural to use and unobtrusive.

gigaflop 4y ago
If you were to get your hands on a QMK/VIA-powered keyboard, you could tweak the firmware for your own Fn+(anything) to map to Vol+, Vol-. Not the same, but you could have this 'under your fingertips' at all times. I tried this a while ago, but never used it much. I end up leaving my system volume at predictable levels most of the time, and ended up rebinding my arrow cluster's extra layer for Prev/Next song, which got much more use.
- bloopernova 4y ago
  I love my QMK Ploopy mouse. I use on of the buttons as a layer change, which gets me access to extras I added. Stuff like paste and plain text paste are super useful. (On MacOS plain text paste is shift+option+command+p)
ilyt 4y ago
I remember ages ago I had keyboard with big scroll wheel on the left , super convenient. Currently due to many sources (PC, console, occasional synthesizer, BT receiver) I just have small mixer between my PC and speakers and it is super convenient. I actually considered hacking something akin to 3-4 encoders with display showing current app making sound and giving option to change the volume of that app

tbran 4y ago

Ben Valleck has an ultra-approachable video on building your own keyboard [0]. PCBs are incredibly cheap to print (<$25 shipped for me to print at https://jlcpcb.com https://jlcpcb.com, IIRC), and he shows you how to do some mods to the schematic using KiCad [1]. BV also has some crazier minimal keyboard designs like this 18-key split one with lots of layers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNOGEtqn85o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNOGEtqn85o [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqpBKuEVinw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqpBKuEVinw [1]: https://www.kicad.org/ https://www.kicad.org/

gigaflop 4y ago
I'm also gonna link the ai03 tutorial I used to design/build my own custom board. Text based, multiple pages: https://wiki.ai03.com/books/pcb-design/page/pcb-guide-part-1---preparations https://wiki.ai03.com/books/pcb-design/page/pcb-guide-part-1... Once you build your first little macropad, and verify that your design is generally correct, you can fork the repo you created and pretty much copy/paste your MCU region, and build a new grid of keys around it. The guide also gave me good tips on what to have assembled, and what to hand-solder, to be able to cut some costs.
riskable 4y ago
I made my own tutorial about how to design your own analog keyboard: https://youtu.be/TfKz_FbZWLQ https://youtu.be/TfKz_FbZWLQ It's ultimately the same process I used to create my Analog Hall Effect Keyboard that was reviewed by Chyrosran22 recently: https://youtu.be/iv6Rh8UNWlI https://youtu.be/iv6Rh8UNWlI
- utopcell 4y ago
  hey riskable, thanks for making these vids and for sharing knowledge about your 3d-printed hall-effect keys; keep them coming! :-)

jurassic 4y ago

I haven't quite reached this level yet with the keyboard hobby, but reading this post feels a bit like looking into my future. I've soldered together a few kits designed by others and have been itching to try my hand at designing my own layout fully from scratch. Not that I need it, I'm quite happy with my current stable of keyboards, but because I think it would be a fun way to learn more about electronics. In case anyone is interested, there are also people who hand-wire keyboards. This lets you explore funky custom layouts without having to learn the circuit design and manufacturing side. I came across this pretty detailed guide recently. https://www.crackedthecode.co/a-complete-guide-to-building-a-hand-wired-keyboard/ https://www.crackedthecode.co/a-complete-guide-to-building-a...

Bedon292 4y ago

I love having a split keyboard. It feels far more ergonomic than a single piece keyboard. Just relax your arms and put each half where your hands are. No having to bring your hands together and angle your wrists to get your hands in position. The other piece of the puzzle for me is curvature. On a flat keyboard there is more stretching or physically moving but adding in a bit of curvature helps cut down on that. For a few years now I have been using a hand wired Dactyl-ManuForm [1] and it has been great. At least for writing / programming. I go back to a regular keyboard for gaming purposes. [1] https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard

cleak 4y ago
The split and relaxed shoulders are amazing. I really wish more tech would try this approach. The Wii controller (Wiimote + Nunchuck) was my favorite controller for this reason and I have yet to find anything as ergonomic.
- CarVac 4y ago
  The ASCII Gamecube Controller is very relaxing for this reason too.
  - lukas099 4y ago
    TIL there was a GameCube controller with a keyboard on it: https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/ASCII_Keyboard_Controller https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/ASCII_Keyboard_Controller
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  You can do the same thing with the Nintendo Switch controllers. It's my favourite way to play.
- wildrhythms 4y ago
  Yes! I always use the Joycons like this. Just rest them however I'm comfortable. Although the rectangular shape makes them uncomfortable to hold in the hand for too long which is a shame.

rrgok 4y ago

I wanted to thank the author for the thorough blog post on how to create a new keyboard from scratch. Just a note, please add where you print the PCB, Case ecc.. Thank you.

bschwindHN 4y ago
The author mentions JLCPCB quite a few times in the article, and specifically says "I printed on such and such printer"

DoingIsLearning 4y ago

Slightly off topic has anybody found a small footprint touchpad to keep close by to a split keyboard? Similar to the touchpad on the 'Ultimate Hacking Keyboard v2' but standalone without the pogo pins coupling part? [0] [0] https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/product/touchpad https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/product/touchpad

danielheath 4y ago
Keymouse have a model with a trackball under each thumb, and a model where each half is a mouse as well as being a keyboard.
squidbot 4y ago
Not sure how small you're wanting, but Kinesis sells the Cirque EasyCat AG which is 3.3"x2.6". I've not used it myself, but I do have the Freestyle Pro keyboard, which I absolutely love and is very high quality, so I'd guess the rest of the products are similar. https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/cirque-easycat-ag/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/cirque-easycat-ag/
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  This definitely fits what I was look for, thank you for the sugestion! I was not familiar with Cirque.
mathgorges 4y ago
I use an Apple Magic Trackpad 2. Probably not "small", but it fits between the two halves of my Moonlander quite nicely :)
- 1-more 4y ago
  Same with an Iris
- Analemma_ 4y ago
  I also have a UHK and a Magic Trackpad and just keep it between the halves. It enforces proper separation, since without it I tend to default to keeping the halves too close together, and while the modules partially overlap the corners, there's still more than enough usable space.

bschwindHN 4y ago

Not sure if the author of the post is around, but I guess this is a question for anyone who has designed keyboards: have you ever tried using shift registers for reading all the keyswitch inputs, and is it worth it? Does it mean you don't have to use a diode per switch? I've designed my own as well but just went with the traditional key matrix with a diode per switch. Works well enough for the current size. https://github.com/bschwind/key-ripper https://github.com/bschwind/key-ripper

mzzter 4y ago
Last time i researched adding shift registers was over a year ago and I didn’t find many examples (I vaguely recall one possibly with qmk), and very little public discussion besides a reddit question. Popular guides like ai03’s at the time recommended upgrading to a microcontroller with more gpio before introducing shift registers. Searching again, looks like zmk added support for the common 595 shift register: https://github.com/zmkfirmware/zmk/pull/1325 https://github.com/zmkfirmware/zmk/pull/1325 Edit: You could avoid using diodes, but diodes increase the number of switches possible via a matrix more than shift registers do by giving you more gpio. I’d imagine one can use both together.
gmbuell 4y ago
This kind of thing is really common in the DIY synthesizer world. Here's a great resource: http://www.openmusiclabs.com/learning/digital/input-matrix-scanning/index.html http://www.openmusiclabs.com/learning/digital/input-matrix-s...
riskable 4y ago
My analog keyboards use analog multiplexers (74HC4067) which is similar to how shift registers work. Except they're full of flip-flops (2-way) instead of digital logic. I made two videos talking about how I design my analog keyboard PCBs and how I'm using analog multiplexers here: https://youtu.be/TfKz_FbZWLQ https://youtu.be/TfKz_FbZWLQ
jsmith45 4y ago
Shift registers are an interesting option. They are obviously feasible, especially if using ones with a built in pull-down. They do avoid having a diode per key, in exchange for needing a chip for N keys, where n is the number of of parallel inputs in your parallel to serial shift register. They can also save IO lines. Obviously with if using chainable shift registers, you can have an unlimited number of keys with just 3 IO lines. More realistic of course, would be to use several IO lines in parallel. For a 64 key matrix, one could say use 8, 8-bit shift registers, each connected to one input line, plus one output latch line and one output clock line (for a total of 10), vs the 16 lines needed traditional matrix. 8 input lines is nice, because if you pick the I/O lines right, retrieving the values is just a single port read. Making the procedure: latch, (toggle clock twice, read port, write to next location in memory buffer) x8. There are of course downsides, like shift registers needing more board space than tiny surface mount diodes, but this is not necessarily a deal-killer.

izzydata 4y ago

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who can't type on this kind of keyboard because I often use my left hand to type some right side keys and my right hand to type some left side keys. I'd constantly be clicking off into the air on this thing. I can type near 150wpm, but it is a completely random style that mostly only follows using whatever finger happens to be closest to the next key regardless of which hand it is after leaving every finger wherever it was last used.

jrkatz 4y ago
I was in a similar position, but highly motivated to switch due to advancing RSI symptoms. I waited to switch until a low-code, long-duration project came across my desk and was pleasantly surprised by how quickly my old habits were replaced. The trick seems to be that with split keyboards (especially orthilinear models) the finger closest to the next key is usually the one you ought to use anyhow. When home-row is mandatory, it's easy. After a month or so at most, I was back to full speed. It did ruin me for laptop keyboards, though, I can't type on those at all anymore.
- 3np 4y ago
  Similar experience, except I was surprised to find that my laptop typing have actually been improving without trying despite (or due to?) also using a qwerty but otherwise quite different layout.
wishinghand 4y ago
I'm a bit of a n00b for QMK firmware based keyboards, but I think there is a function for flipping the mapping of each side so you can do stuff like that.
Skeime 4y ago
I think you’d be constantly doing that for like two days. Then you would adapt and stop using the wrong hand. (Provided that you don’t use another keyboard simultaneously that let’s you keep going with the old habit.)
yes_but_no 4y ago

rychco 4y ago

I've been toying with the idea of designing my own keyboard too. I'm in love with the keeb.io iris & ergodox EZ. They're both pretty awesome, but now I'm thinking I would love to be able to take my split/iris everywhere by using choc low-profile switches & a case that would let me snap the two sides together, face-to-face, such that I could slip it in my backpack along with my laptop (and maybe some extra keys here & there).

gigaflop 4y ago
If you don't need to have the halves be fully separated, you can have an easy time designing a custom PCB, assuming that you can get good/accurate footprints for the switches you want to use. The below PCB is meant to be 'like a Preonic, but with 2x2u spaces, and full 5x12 grid'. Diode placement is aesthetic, but serves as a way to fill the 'dead space' between the main halves. https://i.imgur.com/Krd3dfE.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/Krd3dfE.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/78KWmuV.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/78KWmuV.jpeg Whether you use 2d design to make a stacked/layered case, or 3d printing, you could probably jank-design a top cover to go along with your own custom build.
- jurassic 4y ago
  The latest iteration of the Preonic already supports 2x2u configuration. But some extra space between hands would be welcome.
  - gigaflop 4y ago
    Oh, but here's the thing: I wanted 5x12, and 2x2u. I also wanted to make it compatible with existing 5x12 keymaps, for ease of firmware tweaking. I have an assembled proto, and while it was rough around the edges, it was fun to use. The case was made of laser-cut sheet metal bolted together with standoffs, and the switch plate had a cutout in the center to show off those banked diodes.

bloopernova 4y ago

What I want in a split keyboard is rollers or wheels built into the inside edges of the 2 halves. That would let my thumbs reach them pretty easily, and because they're mostly hidden within the keyboard body like a mouse wheel they wouldn't be wasting precious key space.

bloopernova 4y ago
I mean, dials are nice, but I prefer mouse wheel style if the interface doesn't require that you see the whole dial at once.

nix0n 4y ago

In Gamecube modding it is common to cut apart a Wii motherboard. Would it be possible to create a split keyboard by cutting apart multiple cheap full keyboards?

gigaflop 4y ago
You totally could, if you were willing to re-solder all of the cut traces. But at that point, you'd be better served by buying a kit to assemble. Custom firmware, choice of key switches, and choice of keycaps are not going to be available if you apply the hacksaw method to cheapo $5 boards.

wellthisisgreat 4y ago

this is really nice and I am actually designing a very similar board right now. People online kept telling me that 'Ergo' means it should have <40 keys, but sorry no, the desk real estate is very cheap and I can use a 70-80 key keyboard as a 40-key keyboard just fine. Having a tiny finger-cramping device just so it looks "clean" is worse than Apple slimming down their phones. I forsee a minor surge of full-size split ergos and that's a great thing.

Matrixik 4y ago
Hopefully, there is surprising lack of ergonomic keyboards with function keys. That's basically the most important reason I'm waiting for moergo glove80 to arrive. But I would also like to have something flat and thin with low profile switches for portable usage.

jjcm 4y ago

You may want to be careful with naming, as Nice Technologies LLC makes very similar PCBs for mechanical keyboards: https://nicekeyboards.com/ https://nicekeyboards.com/ IANAL, but if they have a trademark for "NICE" in relation to keyboards, yours may be in violation.

lolive 4y ago

Just bought my first "strange" keyboard from Keychron (it is pre-built, and programmable with VIA). I hope I can hardwire there all my (actually implemented with) .Xmodmap tricks, and make them available on both Windows and Linux. This kind of article just shows me what I will become in a few years if that first experience indeed succeeds.

panda88888 4y ago
Did you get the Alice layout? How is it working out for you? I’ve been interested to get one myself.
amalgamated_inc 4y ago
I also just got a Keychron (K3 Pro), and I'm liking it a lot. Great look and feel, types well. Clean design.
- c0nsumer 4y ago
  I just got a K3 (non-pro) last Friday and I'm mostly liking it. For years I used an Apple Magic Keyboard Pro (or whatever the wired full size keyboard like it is) and really liked it, but wanted something narrower and without the 10-key so I could move the mouse closer to the centerline of my body. So far it's been good, but there's a couple things that are taking some getting used to: 1) The spacer bar is wider than on either the Apple keyboard or any of my HP laptops. I hit space with my pointer fingers, sometimes right sometimes left, and I keep accidentally hitting the Command key along with space, and popping up Spotlight on top of whatever I'm doing. 2) The delete key is in a funny position. I almost wish it was where the backlight key is. I guess if I'd gotten the Pro keyboard I could remap it. 3) The lack of eject key means I've lost my Ctrl-Shift-Eject shortcut for immediately blanking the screen. Not huge, but I liked being able to do this on demand. Otherwise, it only took a few days to get accustomed to the greater key travel and I think I like it. Although I have half a mind to return it and get the Pro now, just to fix the Delete key... And maybe I can make the backlight key be some combo, and I can restore eject?
  - 4y ago

cgwu 4y ago

I tried giving "split" keyboard a shot a few years back, but unfortunately it never worked...

UI_at_80x24 4y ago

I currently use a Model-M clone. It's 75% of the way to perfect for me. This is my gold-tier wish list: Bucking-Springs split-keyboard WHITE backlight under the keys (I can touch type, but after 35+ years I still "gaze unfocused" and take in all the keys)

gigaflop 4y ago
If you can settle for MX-style switches that have a very satisfying click, then I'd like to point you to Kailh Box switches. There's a bunch of variations, but Box Jade or Pink (from NovelKeys) have been my favorites. The tactility is very well defined, and the tactile mechanism (click bar) is IMO better than Cherry-style click jackets, like seen in Cherry Blues. A split keeb with a white backlight that accepts MX-footprint switches should be simple to find.
- Tsiklon 4y ago
  And if you fancy getting more 'Boutique' there's always the ZealPC "Clickiez" which are a reinvention of the ALPS style of click mechanism in an MX compatible chassis. Fabulous (but expensive) switches.
digitallyfree 4y ago
I use an actual IBM Model M from the 90s and absolutely love the feel of the buckling springs. Modern Cherry mech switches are obviously better than membranes, but they simply can't replicate the sound and tactile "jump" that occurs when the key triggers.
TacticalCoder 4y ago
No idea about the white backlight but... > This is my gold-tier wish list: > Bucking-Springs > split-keyboard Model M M15: it's split. It's a collector item though.
sleepybrett 4y ago
Get the brand new model f is you want buckling springs.
4y ago

jollyllama 4y ago

>goes to all that effort >not cupped Probably better off going with a Matias then.

sleepybrett 4y ago

these flat kinesis advantage clones give me cramps. Just buy an advantage or build a dactyl-like

microtonal 4y ago
Yeah, I think homebrew keyboards are converging to a local optimum because 2D is much easier. Take a PCB, solder or hotswap the swithches, add some acrylic plates or a simple 3D print and you are done. Dactyl-like keyboards require a 3D printer, long printing times, sanding down imperfections, etc. And then the palm support story is not great. The homebrew market is ready to be disrupted by someone who sells injection-molded components for curved keyboards, so that it can move out of this local optimum. Maltron sells separate cases, but the design is dated. Until then, I agree, just get an Advantage or maybe Glove80.
- sleepybrett 4y ago
  I built a dactyl on a TAZ4. Barely had to sand anything. Few etsy shops around that will sell you the prints if you lack a printer. Noticing a lot of used Advantage 2s on the market for cheap now that people are buying up the 360/pro.
- sleepybrett 4y ago
  Sure, 2d pcbs are certainly easier to design and get run. However there are a few people I've seen in the niche of a niche which is 'non flat keyboards' that are getting flex pcbs run for dactyls and their kin.

transfire 4y ago

I have a keyboard design I’d like to have made. But I don’t have the time to do it all myself. Are the any services out there for this sort of thing?