4 ms·

I'm 30 and never had a credit card. Always felt like an extra layer of complication I don't need. I have enough money, I'd prefer to directly spend it. With a c

by dbbk 4y ago

I'm 30 and never had a credit card. Always felt like an extra layer of complication I don't need. I have enough money, I'd prefer to directly spend it. With a credit card there'd always be a nagging feeling some payment would be missed or something would go wrong and all of a sudden I'd be hit with interest charges.

geraldwhen 4y ago
This is wild. Have you never had a fraud charge? Reversing fraud of any size takes minutes at most with a credit card. With a debit card you might just lose the money.
- t0mas88 4y ago
  This is a very US specific thing and even there I'm not sure it's true. In Europe credit-card usage is much lower, and card security is much higher for both types of cards. We've had chip and pin protected cards for many many years, while the US only caught on in the last few years. Is there objective data that US debit cards have more fraud impact for their users? Or is this really more a PR story from credit card companies?
  - matwood 4y ago
    > Is there objective data that US debit cards have more fraud impact for their users? Depends how tightly someones runs their bank account. A fraudulent charge could come at a bad time and trigger your mortgage payment to fail because of insufficient funds. Though, most bank accounts offer overdraft protection, which is really just an available loan that is automatically taken. For me, very few charges come directly out of my bank account. Everything else goes through a CC so I can review prior to paying each month.
  - turdprincess 4y ago
    I’m not sure about relative fraud numbers, but the fraud refund differences are real. With a credit card they will refund you basically no matter what. With a debit card it’s much more hit or miss - I recently had 3 fraudulent transactions on my debit card for about $100 each and they refunded only one of them. That’s crazy if you think about it - you give your card around to many people and any of them can write it down and use it. In the US the only sensible thing to do is to use your credit card for everything and keep your savings tucked in an account which doesn’t have a card at all, nor a checking account tied to it. Then maybe a small checking account at some other bank for rare times you need cash.
    - dbbk 4y ago
      I've had my chip-and-pin debit card stolen and used many times, never once had a fraudulent transaction refused a refund. And it always is resolved in less than a day.
  - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
    >Is there objective data that US debit cards have more fraud impact for their users? Debit card fraud is rampant here in the USA. I cannot think of anyone I know personally who has not been a victim of debit and credit card fraud at least once (most have been hit multiple times). The difference usually is that in the case of credit card fraud, you go to charge something, and your card doesn't work. You call up only to find out your credit card has been frozen due to a pattern of suspicious purchasing behavior in some distant state. Credit card companies are very diligent about this because it is their money on the line. When it comes to debit card fraud you only find out about it when you check your account and see your balance decimated or a list of phony charges that you didn't authorize. In the case of credit cards, you aren't responsible for paying the phony charges. In the case of debit cards, you are usually just out the money. It is very common here.
- dividedcomet 4y ago
  I’ll say I’ve never had this issue with credit unions I belong to. Just give the fraud department a call and within maybe half an hour the money is back in my account
- ericfrenkiel 4y ago
  In some ways it's even more expensive to remain "credit invisible" because of the security deposits now needed when you set up utilities, getting a mobile number, applying for an apartment rental, etc. Building up a strong FICO score is the easiest thing with the exact mindset of OP with effectively the same amount of friction thanks to the "miracle" of autopay.
- dbbk 4y ago
  I'm in the UK, fraud is perfectly covered for debit cards.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Several times my debit card has been defrauded. I just contact my bank and they refund it within a few days and issue me a new card. No problems.
SaintGhurka 4y ago
You have me curious. What payment methods do you usually use? I just envision a life without credit cards having a bit of extra friction once in a while. Do you ever run into transactions that can't be completed with alternate payment methods? For example, I used to see hotels state that they only accept credit cards (and explicitly exclude debit cards) for checking into a room.
- dbbk 4y ago
  In the UK. That doesn't exist here... nowhere would require a credit card over a debit card.
matwood 4y ago
Wow. I know HN hates Amazon, but as an example, the Amazon Prime cards give 5% back on everything bought on Amazon and at WholeFoods. That's not insignificant. Also, if you did happen to miss payment because you forgot, 1 mos. of interest really isn't very much and certainly isn't the end of the world. The problem with CCs is when people don't pay them off and continue to put more and more charges on them. That's when things really add up. Finally, that extra layer of separation between my money and the merchant/card thief is a good thing. CC gets stolen and I never lose possession of my money. Debit card gets stolen, and no matter how fast they reverse the charges, there's still a point where I lost possession.
Existenceblinks 4y ago
Same. But I also never had problem with payment (I cancelled[or returned] purchase less than 4 times in my life, I can only thinking 1 or 2). Almost all credit card benefits are even out the production of incentives it drives. It's hard to prove if you spend 5% more with 3% cash back or not.

by dbbk 4y ago

geraldwhen 4y ago

This is wild. Have you never had a fraud charge? Reversing fraud of any size takes minutes at most with a credit card. With a debit card you might just lose the money.

t0mas88 4y ago
This is a very US specific thing and even there I'm not sure it's true. In Europe credit-card usage is much lower, and card security is much higher for both types of cards. We've had chip and pin protected cards for many many years, while the US only caught on in the last few years. Is there objective data that US debit cards have more fraud impact for their users? Or is this really more a PR story from credit card companies?
- matwood 4y ago
  > Is there objective data that US debit cards have more fraud impact for their users? Depends how tightly someones runs their bank account. A fraudulent charge could come at a bad time and trigger your mortgage payment to fail because of insufficient funds. Though, most bank accounts offer overdraft protection, which is really just an available loan that is automatically taken. For me, very few charges come directly out of my bank account. Everything else goes through a CC so I can review prior to paying each month.
- turdprincess 4y ago
  I’m not sure about relative fraud numbers, but the fraud refund differences are real. With a credit card they will refund you basically no matter what. With a debit card it’s much more hit or miss - I recently had 3 fraudulent transactions on my debit card for about $100 each and they refunded only one of them. That’s crazy if you think about it - you give your card around to many people and any of them can write it down and use it. In the US the only sensible thing to do is to use your credit card for everything and keep your savings tucked in an account which doesn’t have a card at all, nor a checking account tied to it. Then maybe a small checking account at some other bank for rare times you need cash.
  - dbbk 4y ago
    I've had my chip-and-pin debit card stolen and used many times, never once had a fraudulent transaction refused a refund. And it always is resolved in less than a day.
- StanislavPetrov 4y ago
  >Is there objective data that US debit cards have more fraud impact for their users? Debit card fraud is rampant here in the USA. I cannot think of anyone I know personally who has not been a victim of debit and credit card fraud at least once (most have been hit multiple times). The difference usually is that in the case of credit card fraud, you go to charge something, and your card doesn't work. You call up only to find out your credit card has been frozen due to a pattern of suspicious purchasing behavior in some distant state. Credit card companies are very diligent about this because it is their money on the line. When it comes to debit card fraud you only find out about it when you check your account and see your balance decimated or a list of phony charges that you didn't authorize. In the case of credit cards, you aren't responsible for paying the phony charges. In the case of debit cards, you are usually just out the money. It is very common here.
dividedcomet 4y ago
I’ll say I’ve never had this issue with credit unions I belong to. Just give the fraud department a call and within maybe half an hour the money is back in my account
ericfrenkiel 4y ago
In some ways it's even more expensive to remain "credit invisible" because of the security deposits now needed when you set up utilities, getting a mobile number, applying for an apartment rental, etc. Building up a strong FICO score is the easiest thing with the exact mindset of OP with effectively the same amount of friction thanks to the "miracle" of autopay.
dbbk 4y ago
I'm in the UK, fraud is perfectly covered for debit cards.
nibbleshifter 4y ago
Several times my debit card has been defrauded. I just contact my bank and they refund it within a few days and issue me a new card. No problems.

SaintGhurka 4y ago

You have me curious. What payment methods do you usually use? I just envision a life without credit cards having a bit of extra friction once in a while. Do you ever run into transactions that can't be completed with alternate payment methods? For example, I used to see hotels state that they only accept credit cards (and explicitly exclude debit cards) for checking into a room.

dbbk 4y ago
In the UK. That doesn't exist here... nowhere would require a credit card over a debit card.

matwood 4y ago

Wow. I know HN hates Amazon, but as an example, the Amazon Prime cards give 5% back on everything bought on Amazon and at WholeFoods. That's not insignificant. Also, if you did happen to miss payment because you forgot, 1 mos. of interest really isn't very much and certainly isn't the end of the world. The problem with CCs is when people don't pay them off and continue to put more and more charges on them. That's when things really add up. Finally, that extra layer of separation between my money and the merchant/card thief is a good thing. CC gets stolen and I never lose possession of my money. Debit card gets stolen, and no matter how fast they reverse the charges, there's still a point where I lost possession.

Existenceblinks 4y ago

Same. But I also never had problem with payment (I cancelled[or returned] purchase less than 4 times in my life, I can only thinking 1 or 2). Almost all credit card benefits are even out the production of incentives it drives. It's hard to prove if you spend 5% more with 3% cash back or not.