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Indirectly, yes. They can use foreign intel agencies to spy on Americans; they can use third parties (Twitter, Facebook, cellular networks, your cars, and all d

Indirectly, yes. They can use foreign intel agencies to spy on Americans; they can use third parties (Twitter, Facebook, cellular networks, your cars, and all data brokers) to spy on you, thanks to the third-party doctrine.

btilly 4y ago
This is one of the astounding loopholes revealed by Snowden's revelations. The US government could not spy on Americans without a warrant. But they convinced themselves that mass surveillance was legal as long as the USA did not search their own database on Americans without a warrant. And making the whole thing available to other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes was also OK. So analysts in England got all the data. And nothing about UK law says that THEY can't do searches on Americans. So they do. And if they find anything, they can give the USA an affirmation that they know that person X is up to no good and crime Y is likely to turn up if they do a search of A, B and C. That affirmation is sufficient under the 4th amendment to get a search warrant from a judge. Armed with said search warrant, the USA can now search the database, verify what they are told, and then they have probable cause under which they can take further actions. And so they convinced themselves that by simply outsourcing the initial search, they could conduct unlimited surveillance on Americans and still have satisfied the letter of the Constitution.
- 8note 4y ago
  Was that a Snowden revelation? Isnt it the whole point of the five eyes to skip over local law?
  - caycep 4y ago
    This wasn't even a Snowden revelation. James Bamford, Dana Priest and William Arkin had a steady stream of articles and books about all the 5 eyes stuff, way before Snowden's case.
  - btilly 4y ago
    That they could spy on Americans was not a Snowden revelation. The scale of information that we delivered to them for this purpose, was.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  > The US government could not spy on Americans without a warrant. Reagan's EO12334 suspends the 4A for people subject to background investigations for government work. They have an entire domestic surveillance apparatus to monitor such people. Once in place it's easy to extend that to everyone else.
deleted 4y ago
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btilly 4y ago

This is one of the astounding loopholes revealed by Snowden's revelations. The US government could not spy on Americans without a warrant. But they convinced themselves that mass surveillance was legal as long as the USA did not search their own database on Americans without a warrant. And making the whole thing available to other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes was also OK. So analysts in England got all the data. And nothing about UK law says that THEY can't do searches on Americans. So they do. And if they find anything, they can give the USA an affirmation that they know that person X is up to no good and crime Y is likely to turn up if they do a search of A, B and C. That affirmation is sufficient under the 4th amendment to get a search warrant from a judge. Armed with said search warrant, the USA can now search the database, verify what they are told, and then they have probable cause under which they can take further actions. And so they convinced themselves that by simply outsourcing the initial search, they could conduct unlimited surveillance on Americans and still have satisfied the letter of the Constitution.

8note 4y ago
Was that a Snowden revelation? Isnt it the whole point of the five eyes to skip over local law?
- caycep 4y ago
  This wasn't even a Snowden revelation. James Bamford, Dana Priest and William Arkin had a steady stream of articles and books about all the 5 eyes stuff, way before Snowden's case.
- btilly 4y ago
  That they could spy on Americans was not a Snowden revelation. The scale of information that we delivered to them for this purpose, was.
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
> The US government could not spy on Americans without a warrant. Reagan's EO12334 suspends the 4A for people subject to background investigations for government work. They have an entire domestic surveillance apparatus to monitor such people. Once in place it's easy to extend that to everyone else.

deleted 4y ago

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