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Please someone tell me again how homeschooling doesn’t properly socialize children…

by voisin 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
isthisthingon99 4y ago
homeschooling doesn’t properly socialize children
- kodyo 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - isthisthingon99 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - dang 4y ago
    You've been using HN primarily (exclusively?) for ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of which flavor you favor. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. Moreover, you've been breaking the site guidelines in other ways too, such as with unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments, name-calling, and personal attacks. We ban accounts that do these things. I'm not going to ban you right now because your account has been around for a while and we haven't warned you before, but the pattern in your comment history is definitely not ok and we need you to fix this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
llanowarelves 4y ago
The hardest thing home schooled kids have to deal with is communication with public school kids. Therefore, it's recommended that they speak slowly, and use monosyllabic words in the hope that most public school kids will be able to keep up and understand.
ceejayoz 4y ago
Adults bully, too, so you do need to learn to handle it. Delaying that learning experience likely has both costs and benefits.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  > Adults bully, too, so you do need to learn to handle it. Eh, they do. But not nearly as frequently as children in my experience. I was tormented mercilessly in school, but I'm actually struggling to think of a single instance of bullying I've experienced as an adult. And I don't think that's because I "learnt to deal with it". I think it's partly because most bullies grow out of it, and partly because as an adult you're usually afforded the agency to leave situations where you're being bullied.
  - rofo1 4y ago
    > I think it's partly because most bullies grow out of it, and partly because as an adult you're usually afforded the agency to leave situations where you're being bullied. It is because you can defend yourself. That's all there is to it. If you can defend yourself, people will not mess with you. Parents that leave children into "schools" so they can get "bullied" and nobody protects them are committing cruelty of the highest order I can imagine.
    - voisin 4y ago
      > Parents that leave children into "schools" so they can get "bullied" and nobody protects them are committing cruelty of the highest order I can imagine. The grandparent poster here is saying that this bullying is a feature not a bug, and that the bullying prepares you for adulthood! I don’t buy any of it, but that’s the counterpoint to what you are saying.
  - harry8 4y ago
    In my experience as a school student there is very little you can do about it beyond making yourself a small target which comes at a fairly high cost. You can make it worse once it happens while being on the receiving end of a wildly hypocritical lecture about how the school "will not tolerate bullying". Standing up to organised group bullying is folly. As an adult you have many more cards to play than that and everyone knows it even if they don't know which cards you have or which of those you're willing to play; the doubt surrounding potential consequences for picking on you counts for something. Precisely none of that improvement in lived experience comes from "learning to deal with it" and "socialization" So that's my experience, others may differ.
capableweb 4y ago
Socializing children requires you to be around other children to play with, or get into conflict with. That's part of socializing. When you're homeschooling, it's much less likely you have a broad spectrum of other children to interact with, as when you go to an actual school.
- voisin 4y ago
  On the contrary, the school system groups kids from the same neighbourhoods and the same age together. Some schools also by religion. Homeschooled kids tend to mix with a broader range of ages and geographic basis.
  - dathinab 4y ago
    > Homeschooled kids tend to mix with a broader range of ages and geographic basis. or with none or only other members of a religious cult and definitely not the kind of children the parent are biased against the idea that a homeschooling kid from e.g. a very conservative christian family will have a less segregated experience is just funny > same neighborhood one of many many more reasons why neighborhood segregation is a huge problem (independent of weather it's by ethnicity, religion or wealth) > same age one of the thinks some of the nordic countries did change (through their suicide rates are high, but that is more a problem with the geographic location, i.e. not getting much (or any) sun-light in winter).
    - dagw 4y ago
      their suicide rates are high, but that is more a problem with the geographic location, i.e. not getting much (or any) sun-light in winter). That is mostly a myth. While suicide rather in the Nordic countries are slightly above the European average they're not the highest in Europe and below the US. Also the correlation between suicide and not getting enough sun light is at best very weak. If you cluster suicide data on a pr county level in Sweden for example, you'll find a very high correlation with unemployment levels and negative population growth and no correlation with how far north you are.
Paianni 4y ago
If domestic relationships aren't good quality then social skills may be impaired regardless.
fiftyfifty 4y ago
A compromise is to just have smaller schools. I don’t know who came up with the idea to put over 1,000 teenagers together in a building everyday as so many public high schools do in the US, but there are plenty of studies that show it’s a terrible idea.
- voisin 4y ago
  I assume it is for economic reasons. Unless property taxes shoot up, how would you support that?
dathinab 4y ago
Because if you don't interact with people you can't learn how to interact with people. And this include interacting with people you don't like or which aren't so nice (but just that, not bullies). The problem isn't schools. It's a bad treatment of social issues at schools (and in society) in many ways. I mean how messed up is the US that police presence at schools is normal in many areas (and I don't mean just guarding the gate but presence _in_ the schools).
TaupeRanger 4y ago
Please someone tell me again how they don't understand statistics. Suicide is still extremely rare even with schooling. Child abuse is actually more common in homeschool environments, which you apparently wish to ignore. It can be true that homeschooling doesn't properly socialize children AND that there's an astronomically small increased risk of suicide from school attendance.
- voisin 4y ago
  > Child abuse is actually more common in homeschool environments Source?
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Solid numbers (in either direction) are hard to find. Stuff like this is concerning: https://ctmirror.org/2018/04/26/child-advocate-finds-homeschooled-kids-subject-abuse-neglect/ https://ctmirror.org/2018/04/26/child-advocate-finds-homesch... > In a study of six public school districts, Eagan found that over three academic years, 36 percent of students withdrawn for homeschooling lived in families that had at least one prior accepted report for suspected abuse or neglect from the Department of Children and Families.

Please someone tell me again how homeschooling doesn’t properly socialize children…

by voisin 4y ago

Please someone tell me again how homeschooling doesn’t properly socialize children…

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

isthisthingon99 4y ago

homeschooling doesn’t properly socialize children

kodyo 4y ago
[flagged]
- isthisthingon99 4y ago
  [flagged]
- dang 4y ago
  You've been using HN primarily (exclusively?) for ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of which flavor you favor. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. Moreover, you've been breaking the site guidelines in other ways too, such as with unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments, name-calling, and personal attacks. We ban accounts that do these things. I'm not going to ban you right now because your account has been around for a while and we haven't warned you before, but the pattern in your comment history is definitely not ok and we need you to fix this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

llanowarelves 4y ago

The hardest thing home schooled kids have to deal with is communication with public school kids. Therefore, it's recommended that they speak slowly, and use monosyllabic words in the hope that most public school kids will be able to keep up and understand.

ceejayoz 4y ago

Adults bully, too, so you do need to learn to handle it. Delaying that learning experience likely has both costs and benefits.

nicoburns 4y ago
> Adults bully, too, so you do need to learn to handle it. Eh, they do. But not nearly as frequently as children in my experience. I was tormented mercilessly in school, but I'm actually struggling to think of a single instance of bullying I've experienced as an adult. And I don't think that's because I "learnt to deal with it". I think it's partly because most bullies grow out of it, and partly because as an adult you're usually afforded the agency to leave situations where you're being bullied.
- rofo1 4y ago
  > I think it's partly because most bullies grow out of it, and partly because as an adult you're usually afforded the agency to leave situations where you're being bullied. It is because you can defend yourself. That's all there is to it. If you can defend yourself, people will not mess with you. Parents that leave children into "schools" so they can get "bullied" and nobody protects them are committing cruelty of the highest order I can imagine.
  - voisin 4y ago
    > Parents that leave children into "schools" so they can get "bullied" and nobody protects them are committing cruelty of the highest order I can imagine. The grandparent poster here is saying that this bullying is a feature not a bug, and that the bullying prepares you for adulthood! I don’t buy any of it, but that’s the counterpoint to what you are saying.
- harry8 4y ago
  In my experience as a school student there is very little you can do about it beyond making yourself a small target which comes at a fairly high cost. You can make it worse once it happens while being on the receiving end of a wildly hypocritical lecture about how the school "will not tolerate bullying". Standing up to organised group bullying is folly. As an adult you have many more cards to play than that and everyone knows it even if they don't know which cards you have or which of those you're willing to play; the doubt surrounding potential consequences for picking on you counts for something. Precisely none of that improvement in lived experience comes from "learning to deal with it" and "socialization" So that's my experience, others may differ.

capableweb 4y ago

Socializing children requires you to be around other children to play with, or get into conflict with. That's part of socializing. When you're homeschooling, it's much less likely you have a broad spectrum of other children to interact with, as when you go to an actual school.

voisin 4y ago
On the contrary, the school system groups kids from the same neighbourhoods and the same age together. Some schools also by religion. Homeschooled kids tend to mix with a broader range of ages and geographic basis.
- dathinab 4y ago
  > Homeschooled kids tend to mix with a broader range of ages and geographic basis. or with none or only other members of a religious cult and definitely not the kind of children the parent are biased against the idea that a homeschooling kid from e.g. a very conservative christian family will have a less segregated experience is just funny > same neighborhood one of many many more reasons why neighborhood segregation is a huge problem (independent of weather it's by ethnicity, religion or wealth) > same age one of the thinks some of the nordic countries did change (through their suicide rates are high, but that is more a problem with the geographic location, i.e. not getting much (or any) sun-light in winter).
  - dagw 4y ago
    their suicide rates are high, but that is more a problem with the geographic location, i.e. not getting much (or any) sun-light in winter). That is mostly a myth. While suicide rather in the Nordic countries are slightly above the European average they're not the highest in Europe and below the US. Also the correlation between suicide and not getting enough sun light is at best very weak. If you cluster suicide data on a pr county level in Sweden for example, you'll find a very high correlation with unemployment levels and negative population growth and no correlation with how far north you are.

Paianni 4y ago

If domestic relationships aren't good quality then social skills may be impaired regardless.

fiftyfifty 4y ago

A compromise is to just have smaller schools. I don’t know who came up with the idea to put over 1,000 teenagers together in a building everyday as so many public high schools do in the US, but there are plenty of studies that show it’s a terrible idea.

voisin 4y ago
I assume it is for economic reasons. Unless property taxes shoot up, how would you support that?

dathinab 4y ago

Because if you don't interact with people you can't learn how to interact with people. And this include interacting with people you don't like or which aren't so nice (but just that, not bullies). The problem isn't schools. It's a bad treatment of social issues at schools (and in society) in many ways. I mean how messed up is the US that police presence at schools is normal in many areas (and I don't mean just guarding the gate but presence _in_ the schools).

TaupeRanger 4y ago

Please someone tell me again how they don't understand statistics. Suicide is still extremely rare even with schooling. Child abuse is actually more common in homeschool environments, which you apparently wish to ignore. It can be true that homeschooling doesn't properly socialize children AND that there's an astronomically small increased risk of suicide from school attendance.

voisin 4y ago
> Child abuse is actually more common in homeschool environments Source?
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Solid numbers (in either direction) are hard to find. Stuff like this is concerning: https://ctmirror.org/2018/04/26/child-advocate-finds-homeschooled-kids-subject-abuse-neglect/ https://ctmirror.org/2018/04/26/child-advocate-finds-homesch... > In a study of six public school districts, Eagan found that over three academic years, 36 percent of students withdrawn for homeschooling lived in families that had at least one prior accepted report for suspected abuse or neglect from the Department of Children and Families.