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When the product of this hits the OS I predict massive instability. I don't think the Apple of 2022 has the level of systems programming talent that was behind

by xp84 4y ago

When the product of this hits the OS I predict massive instability. I don't think the Apple of 2022 has the level of systems programming talent that was behind the 1990s code in the core foundation. Today I feel like most of their attempts to move the OS forward beyond the shiny UI gimmicks (Tired of Exposé™? Try Stage Manager!™) are sloppy and only barely work (like "discoveryd" - google that if you don't remember). If you don't believe me, quit all your non-Apple apps, and open up Console.app and hit Start streaming, and limit only to the "Errors and Faults" and watch the computer scream in logs until you're convinced. This is what modern Apple software quality looks like. I really don't want them touching anything near the core OS. Especially because when Apple software doesn't work, either you'll get no feedback, or it will say something comically vague like, that it "can't be completed." I'd LOVE to be proven wrong here because otherwise I'll have to finally catch up on my Windows knowledge and get used to not having a GUI metakey separate from Ctrl!

nicky0 4y ago
You say that, but then I counter with the complete reliability and brilliance of Rosetta 2.
dangus 4y ago
This is just plain cynicism and dramatization. “Massive instability” lol as if anyone with a desktop OS of any sort in 2023 has had anything close to that kind of experience. Let me know when my scroll bar UI is lagging like it’s 2003 in Cupertino. I’m sure Jaguar had zero errors and had all the code audited by Steve Jobs himself to make sure it had top quality. And for real what indicator is there that Apple has low-talent employees? Do they not pay well with good benefits? Where exactly do you expect all the good systems programmers are working? I don’t think a company with bad low level engineers would be bragging about wake from sleep times in their marketing materials. I don’t know of any other desktop OSes that replaced their entire file system with a routine OTA update transparent to the user. I can think of other big recent changes like how people criticized the new System Settings panel a bunch, but at least Apple didn’t take 10 years of iterative updates to not even finish the transition. Please, someone tell me why Windows 11 still has the old Control Panel when Apple replaced their entire settings panel in a single update. As stupid as it is, in my mind the simple fact that iOS just added a “copy and delete” button to the screenshot capture UI tells me that there are still plenty of power user geeks at Apple. We shouldn’t be surprised that they happen to care about different things than what we cared about in the 90s. We can nitpick the bugs all day but I can’t think of another desktop OS that executes on its goals as consistently as macOS, commercial or not.
- sunshinerag 4y ago
  Agreed
  - ihatepython 4y ago
    I lost all my files during the transition to APFS. Luckily I had a backup, but it was about a month old.
onethought 4y ago
Yeah this is bullshit - No one remember "the beachball of death". It plagued OS X and 10.1 Cocoa and Carbon and OS9 emulation... it was terribly unstable. But sure the current rock-solid-haven't-restarted-my-computer-in-6 months version is terribly unstable! Want proof? Explicitly turn on logging and watch the logs... log. xD
ahepp 4y ago
However degraded the Apple UX is from the glory days, as someone who recently converted over from Windows I can assure you the UX there is garbage. Compared to 2022 Apple.
- speedgoose 4y ago
  I don’t know, you don’t need plugins on windows to get a descent window manager. I use Rectangle and AltTab on mac, this should be default features.
  - ahepp 4y ago
    Ok, I can definitely agree with that. They could do a lot more with the window manager. I think there are a couple other pain points I've had along those lines (things that should be in the base system, but aren't). Stuff like, how do I reverse the scroll direction _only_ when I have a mouse plugged in? The answer "oh go install this plugin and give it full access to your mouse and keyboard" is pretty underwhelming. But I do stand by the statement that overall, the experience is a lot better on MacOS
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by xp84 4y ago

nicky0 4y ago

You say that, but then I counter with the complete reliability and brilliance of Rosetta 2.

dangus 4y ago

This is just plain cynicism and dramatization. “Massive instability” lol as if anyone with a desktop OS of any sort in 2023 has had anything close to that kind of experience. Let me know when my scroll bar UI is lagging like it’s 2003 in Cupertino. I’m sure Jaguar had zero errors and had all the code audited by Steve Jobs himself to make sure it had top quality. And for real what indicator is there that Apple has low-talent employees? Do they not pay well with good benefits? Where exactly do you expect all the good systems programmers are working? I don’t think a company with bad low level engineers would be bragging about wake from sleep times in their marketing materials. I don’t know of any other desktop OSes that replaced their entire file system with a routine OTA update transparent to the user. I can think of other big recent changes like how people criticized the new System Settings panel a bunch, but at least Apple didn’t take 10 years of iterative updates to not even finish the transition. Please, someone tell me why Windows 11 still has the old Control Panel when Apple replaced their entire settings panel in a single update. As stupid as it is, in my mind the simple fact that iOS just added a “copy and delete” button to the screenshot capture UI tells me that there are still plenty of power user geeks at Apple. We shouldn’t be surprised that they happen to care about different things than what we cared about in the 90s. We can nitpick the bugs all day but I can’t think of another desktop OS that executes on its goals as consistently as macOS, commercial or not.

sunshinerag 4y ago
Agreed
- ihatepython 4y ago
  I lost all my files during the transition to APFS. Luckily I had a backup, but it was about a month old.

onethought 4y ago

Yeah this is bullshit - No one remember "the beachball of death". It plagued OS X and 10.1 Cocoa and Carbon and OS9 emulation... it was terribly unstable. But sure the current rock-solid-haven't-restarted-my-computer-in-6 months version is terribly unstable! Want proof? Explicitly turn on logging and watch the logs... log. xD

ahepp 4y ago

However degraded the Apple UX is from the glory days, as someone who recently converted over from Windows I can assure you the UX there is garbage. Compared to 2022 Apple.

speedgoose 4y ago
I don’t know, you don’t need plugins on windows to get a descent window manager. I use Rectangle and AltTab on mac, this should be default features.
- ahepp 4y ago
  Ok, I can definitely agree with that. They could do a lot more with the window manager. I think there are a couple other pain points I've had along those lines (things that should be in the base system, but aren't). Stuff like, how do I reverse the scroll direction _only_ when I have a mouse plugged in? The answer "oh go install this plugin and give it full access to your mouse and keyboard" is pretty underwhelming. But I do stand by the statement that overall, the experience is a lot better on MacOS

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