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i think that's bullshit. "I make X, I feel I am worth Y". Credibly demonstrate that you are worth Y[1]. This got me the raise I wanted within my current employe

i think that's bullshit. "I make X, I feel I am worth Y". Credibly demonstrate that you are worth Y[1]. This got me the raise I wanted within my current employer, and willingness to decline an offer less than Y will get me the salary I want the next time I move companies. [1] here's a hint: don't say "i can do XYZ, trust me" -- signal to them you can do XYZ by blogging, speaking at meetups, portfolio of projects, etc.

randomdata 15y ago
"portfolio of projects" Which reminds me of a question I have been asking myself lately. What do you do with your portfolio of "hacky" code? For instance, recently I wanted to experiment porting an open source application to iOS, to give the old iPhone 3G I had just lying around a new life. There were certain parts of the existing codebase that weren't well structured to meet the requirements of the iOS APIs I had to fit in, but I managed to squeeze in the changes without any major restructuring. It is code I am not proud of, code I would never write in a professional setting, but it was the perfect direction for my requirements and constraints. For that, I am really happy with the result. Ultimately, I determined that the 3G just didn't have enough processing power to meet the expectations I had, so I don't have any interest in taking the project further or cleaning up the mess I made. However, even in the state it is in, it is code that is most likely useful to others. But at the same time I don't feel it reflects well on my abilities.
- dustingetz 15y ago
  i leave it on my github. i link the source for my shitty blog from my resume with a note: "solo author. freetime experimental project. my blog is hosted here. don't look too hard at this code, it sucks."
  - randomdata 15y ago
    Sounds like good advice. Thanks!
timr 15y ago
If I'm a recruiter, I then say: "Oh good...we're close. The salary approved for this position is 0.8Y. But we offer high-cholesterol lunches that have been 'catered' by the local fast-food meta-purveyors, health care, blah blah blah. Did I mention our free massage Fridays, and extensive selection of free, high-sugar, diabetes-inducing soft drinks?" You then get to choose to counter or walk away. If you're a good negotiator (which you're not, since you've said the first number), we'll probably end up at 0.9Y. Meanwhile, Joe Bloggs comes in, and doesn't say a number. The recruiter offers 0.8Y, and Joe finally says "I was thinking 1.2Y". Joe, being a savvy negotiator, ends up with at least Y, and maybe 1.1Y. It doesn't matter what Y is, you always have a chance of doing better than your goal if you speak last. You lose that advantage if you speak first.
- slavak 15y ago
  If you're a good negotiator, Y won't be your ideal salary X, but more along the lines of 1.3*X. The basic tenet of negotiation is that both sides are understood to start from a position that is unacceptable for the other side. You can also always try for the DITF[1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique
  - timr 15y ago
    Does not matter. As I said, pick any value of Y, and you'll end up better off (on average) by not saying the first number. Doesn't matter if Y = X or if Y = 20X.
- dustingetz 15y ago
  Except I was talking to alpha geek, not recruiter, and he didn't say .8y, he said OK. Could I have gotten more? Who knows, but it was a large enough jump that I'm not even thinking about it.
- ricardobeat 15y ago
  > The salary approved for this position is 0.8Y So you start by lying to the interviewee? That's the beginning of a great relationship.
SatvikBeri 15y ago
Why even say "I make X?" "I'm looking for Y" still answers the real question and has the advantage of not giving them a lower anchor.

randomdata 15y ago

"portfolio of projects" Which reminds me of a question I have been asking myself lately. What do you do with your portfolio of "hacky" code? For instance, recently I wanted to experiment porting an open source application to iOS, to give the old iPhone 3G I had just lying around a new life. There were certain parts of the existing codebase that weren't well structured to meet the requirements of the iOS APIs I had to fit in, but I managed to squeeze in the changes without any major restructuring. It is code I am not proud of, code I would never write in a professional setting, but it was the perfect direction for my requirements and constraints. For that, I am really happy with the result. Ultimately, I determined that the 3G just didn't have enough processing power to meet the expectations I had, so I don't have any interest in taking the project further or cleaning up the mess I made. However, even in the state it is in, it is code that is most likely useful to others. But at the same time I don't feel it reflects well on my abilities.

dustingetz 15y ago
i leave it on my github. i link the source for my shitty blog from my resume with a note: "solo author. freetime experimental project. my blog is hosted here. don't look too hard at this code, it sucks."
- randomdata 15y ago
  Sounds like good advice. Thanks!

timr 15y ago

If I'm a recruiter, I then say: "Oh good...we're close. The salary approved for this position is 0.8Y. But we offer high-cholesterol lunches that have been 'catered' by the local fast-food meta-purveyors, health care, blah blah blah. Did I mention our free massage Fridays, and extensive selection of free, high-sugar, diabetes-inducing soft drinks?" You then get to choose to counter or walk away. If you're a good negotiator (which you're not, since you've said the first number), we'll probably end up at 0.9Y. Meanwhile, Joe Bloggs comes in, and doesn't say a number. The recruiter offers 0.8Y, and Joe finally says "I was thinking 1.2Y". Joe, being a savvy negotiator, ends up with at least Y, and maybe 1.1Y. It doesn't matter what Y is, you always have a chance of doing better than your goal if you speak last. You lose that advantage if you speak first.

slavak 15y ago
If you're a good negotiator, Y won't be your ideal salary X, but more along the lines of 1.3*X. The basic tenet of negotiation is that both sides are understood to start from a position that is unacceptable for the other side. You can also always try for the DITF[1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique
- timr 15y ago
  Does not matter. As I said, pick any value of Y, and you'll end up better off (on average) by not saying the first number. Doesn't matter if Y = X or if Y = 20X.
dustingetz 15y ago
Except I was talking to alpha geek, not recruiter, and he didn't say .8y, he said OK. Could I have gotten more? Who knows, but it was a large enough jump that I'm not even thinking about it.
ricardobeat 15y ago
> The salary approved for this position is 0.8Y So you start by lying to the interviewee? That's the beginning of a great relationship.

SatvikBeri 15y ago

Why even say "I make X?" "I'm looking for Y" still answers the real question and has the advantage of not giving them a lower anchor.