4 ms·

Or they exist at a completely different scale than us. Their neurons are the size of galaxies or they live in Whoville in a snowflake.

by basch 4y ago

jerf 4y ago
Neurons the size of galaxies, even if one stipulates them magically coming into existence as early as possible, couldn't have hardly thought "hello" to themselves since the universe began. In the meantime, on that time scale, incredible violence has occurred througout the universe. Round trip times of millions of years for the simplest communications are not feasible in this era of spacetime. You'll need to be waiting many tens or hundreds more billions of years before that is conceivable, in the long quiet dark before heat death. The snowflake hypothesis is at least in the range of the "things we can't disprove", at least if by "snowflake" you mean neutron star surfaces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg Of course, one must consider that I'm citing a science fiction book, with all understanding of what that means. But that is at least one hypothesis I don't think we can disprove at the current time, unlike most other ideas put forth. I'd still call it an absolute long shot, and an even longer shot that such beings could leave their star.
TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
I'm fascinated by the idea that the same creatures can live in the same universe and have very different experiences of it. Ants, cats, and humans are all going to perceive the same objects in very different ways. And only humans can understand what human-specific objects are for. A cat will see a book as a flat surface which probably smells of its owner and go to sleep on it. It has no other concept of "book." And if it sees an open book it can't see the contents as writing, because it has no concept of writing. The fascinating part is that a human will see the same object but perceive it very differently because of the added human-specific knowledge and cognition. Unless you're going to make the very bold claim that humans are the most sophisticated and advanced life in the universe, our perceptions will be limited in an analogous way. We see clouds of dust and gas, star systems, and random background noise. An intelligence a few million years ahead of us may see the same objects as [symbol] and [relationship] in ways we literally can't imagine.
- unsupp0rted 4y ago
  > Ants, cats, and humans are all going to perceive the same objects in very different ways. Probably in very similar ways, given how many ways there are to perceive something. Ants, cats, and humans are all carbon-based lifeforms with eyes, nervous-systems, and brains. Imagine how a cat perceives a bird vs. how a human perceives a bird vs. how a cloud of neutrons perceives a bird.
- shostack 4y ago
  That's what I love about the Children of Time series. The skill of the author with immersing you in that truly alien perspective of different biological capabilities, sensory organs, etc. is remarkable.
  - jamiek88 4y ago
    Me too! And a new one came out in the USA last week. I think it was already out in UK. Children of Memory it is called. Downloaded but not read yet!

Or they exist at a completely different scale than us. Their neurons are the size of galaxies or they live in Whoville in a snowflake.

by basch 4y ago

Or they exist at a completely different scale than us. Their neurons are the size of galaxies or they live in Whoville in a snowflake.

jerf 4y ago

Neurons the size of galaxies, even if one stipulates them magically coming into existence as early as possible, couldn't have hardly thought "hello" to themselves since the universe began. In the meantime, on that time scale, incredible violence has occurred througout the universe. Round trip times of millions of years for the simplest communications are not feasible in this era of spacetime. You'll need to be waiting many tens or hundreds more billions of years before that is conceivable, in the long quiet dark before heat death. The snowflake hypothesis is at least in the range of the "things we can't disprove", at least if by "snowflake" you mean neutron star surfaces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg Of course, one must consider that I'm citing a science fiction book, with all understanding of what that means. But that is at least one hypothesis I don't think we can disprove at the current time, unlike most other ideas put forth. I'd still call it an absolute long shot, and an even longer shot that such beings could leave their star.

TheOtherHobbes 4y ago

I'm fascinated by the idea that the same creatures can live in the same universe and have very different experiences of it. Ants, cats, and humans are all going to perceive the same objects in very different ways. And only humans can understand what human-specific objects are for. A cat will see a book as a flat surface which probably smells of its owner and go to sleep on it. It has no other concept of "book." And if it sees an open book it can't see the contents as writing, because it has no concept of writing. The fascinating part is that a human will see the same object but perceive it very differently because of the added human-specific knowledge and cognition. Unless you're going to make the very bold claim that humans are the most sophisticated and advanced life in the universe, our perceptions will be limited in an analogous way. We see clouds of dust and gas, star systems, and random background noise. An intelligence a few million years ahead of us may see the same objects as [symbol] and [relationship] in ways we literally can't imagine.

unsupp0rted 4y ago
> Ants, cats, and humans are all going to perceive the same objects in very different ways. Probably in very similar ways, given how many ways there are to perceive something. Ants, cats, and humans are all carbon-based lifeforms with eyes, nervous-systems, and brains. Imagine how a cat perceives a bird vs. how a human perceives a bird vs. how a cloud of neutrons perceives a bird.
shostack 4y ago
That's what I love about the Children of Time series. The skill of the author with immersing you in that truly alien perspective of different biological capabilities, sensory organs, etc. is remarkable.
- jamiek88 4y ago
  Me too! And a new one came out in the USA last week. I think it was already out in UK. Children of Memory it is called. Downloaded but not read yet!