4 ms·

It's not just trading control. You need to consider that hunters still needed to go out and hunt. Gatherers needed to gather. They built their own shelter, made

It's not just trading control. You need to consider that hunters still needed to go out and hunt. Gatherers needed to gather. They built their own shelter, made their clothes, etc. Curious, what is the minimum requirement for UBI? A pulse?

Dylan16807 4y ago
I think I was unclear. When I said "UBI in this form" I was talking about what the article advocates for modern times. People get to use land for their own purposes, but they have to pay the population.
- kodyo 4y ago
  The sinister euphemism of claiming that productive people have to "pay the population" manifests itself in weird ways, and it's not at all clear what you mean by that.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    ??? What sounds sinister? A tax, but where the tax money goes directly to everyone instead of being allocated by a government.
    - kodyo 4y ago
      First of all, the most evil institutions that have existed over the last 120 years or so have been doing it in the name of "the people." Secondly, if a government isn't both confiscating and redistributing the money, who are the group of robbers that you would designate doing this instead? UBI requires authoritarianism.
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        The government is doing it. But the government is not making decisions. It's just giving everyone their share. Please see the Alaska example. Alaska isn't authoritarian.
        kodyo 4y ago
        Sir, the Alaska fund is run by a government corporation governed by government employees and government appointees. The government decides how it's funded. The government decides how the money is spent. It's all government, and it's completely authoritarian because there's nothing voluntary about it.
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        I'm not sure how I can word this better. There's a difference between paying out the same amount to every person, versus picking specific things to put money into. I'm sure you can figure out what I mean. > it's completely authoritarian because there's nothing voluntary about it Yeah okay. It's exactly as authoritarian as every other tax. I thought you were using normal person language; I'm not going to argue semantics.
- kriskrunch 4y ago
  That sounds like property taxes, which already exist. On the flip side, I wonder how much can be taxed? Is there a maximum? Currently, I work for the government through June. Maybe I'm conflating UBI with increased taxes. The money has to come from somewhere, right? I'm in Southern California, where we enjoy some of the highest taxes and most expensive property in the world, so I'm a bit sensitive. Also, he seems to correlate breathing air to being fed, which is wrong. There are plenty of places to get food for free, stuff that is about to expire gets donated. Just reach out to your local government or community college. It's a lot easier than hunting for it. Last thing, here in California, about half the state is federal or state parkland and wilderness... The state itself blocks development and adds so much red tape to make housing much more expensive.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    > That sounds like property taxes, which already exist. Yes, the part about acquiring funds is the same as what we already do. UBI is an additional way for funds to be distributed. > On the flip side, I wonder how much can be taxed? Is there a maximum? Currently, I work for the government through June. That depends so much on the details of the system. People on the lower end will gain more UBI than taxes increase. People on the upper end will get less UBI than taxes increase. The tipping point could be anywhere in a large range. One version of UBI is simply a system where your income tax starts at a negative amount of dollars.

Dylan16807 4y ago

I think I was unclear. When I said "UBI in this form" I was talking about what the article advocates for modern times. People get to use land for their own purposes, but they have to pay the population.

kodyo 4y ago
The sinister euphemism of claiming that productive people have to "pay the population" manifests itself in weird ways, and it's not at all clear what you mean by that.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  ??? What sounds sinister? A tax, but where the tax money goes directly to everyone instead of being allocated by a government.
  - kodyo 4y ago
    First of all, the most evil institutions that have existed over the last 120 years or so have been doing it in the name of "the people." Secondly, if a government isn't both confiscating and redistributing the money, who are the group of robbers that you would designate doing this instead? UBI requires authoritarianism.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      The government is doing it. But the government is not making decisions. It's just giving everyone their share. Please see the Alaska example. Alaska isn't authoritarian.
      - kodyo 4y ago
        Sir, the Alaska fund is run by a government corporation governed by government employees and government appointees. The government decides how it's funded. The government decides how the money is spent. It's all government, and it's completely authoritarian because there's nothing voluntary about it.
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        I'm not sure how I can word this better. There's a difference between paying out the same amount to every person, versus picking specific things to put money into. I'm sure you can figure out what I mean. > it's completely authoritarian because there's nothing voluntary about it Yeah okay. It's exactly as authoritarian as every other tax. I thought you were using normal person language; I'm not going to argue semantics.
kriskrunch 4y ago
That sounds like property taxes, which already exist. On the flip side, I wonder how much can be taxed? Is there a maximum? Currently, I work for the government through June. Maybe I'm conflating UBI with increased taxes. The money has to come from somewhere, right? I'm in Southern California, where we enjoy some of the highest taxes and most expensive property in the world, so I'm a bit sensitive. Also, he seems to correlate breathing air to being fed, which is wrong. There are plenty of places to get food for free, stuff that is about to expire gets donated. Just reach out to your local government or community college. It's a lot easier than hunting for it. Last thing, here in California, about half the state is federal or state parkland and wilderness... The state itself blocks development and adds so much red tape to make housing much more expensive.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > That sounds like property taxes, which already exist. Yes, the part about acquiring funds is the same as what we already do. UBI is an additional way for funds to be distributed. > On the flip side, I wonder how much can be taxed? Is there a maximum? Currently, I work for the government through June. That depends so much on the details of the system. People on the lower end will gain more UBI than taxes increase. People on the upper end will get less UBI than taxes increase. The tipping point could be anywhere in a large range. One version of UBI is simply a system where your income tax starts at a negative amount of dollars.