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Diversity numbers show up on reports that affect ESG investment. ESG funds will buy more of your company’s stock if you have a higher percentage of women on boa

Diversity numbers show up on reports that affect ESG investment. ESG funds will buy more of your company’s stock if you have a higher percentage of women on boards, for example, and other metrics. And some positions are only offered to diverse candidates or candidates from a particular subgroup, like LGBT etc. Last year, one of the roles I had to fill was diverse-only. Only applicants of color were allowed to apply for the role.

the_gastropod 4y ago
What you're describing would likely violate Title VII and the EEOC.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Blatant violations occur way more often than you think; nobody cares. Technically-legal-but-still-violating-the-spirit happens if the people involved bother asking legal about it.
  - the_gastropod 4y ago
    Oh, I'm sure violations happen all the time. But I very much doubt such violations primarily benefit minorities. There's a reason these laws exist, after all. Further, "blatantly violating" these laws as a publicly traded company, to game ESG funds seems like a poor risk:reward gamble.
    - MockObject 4y ago
      If violations to improve ESG score are a poor risk:reward gamble, what are the rewards of these other violations that "happen all the time"? Are the rewards even greater than improvement of ESG score?
      - the_gastropod 4y ago
        1. The types of companies ESG funds can invest in (publicly traded companies) probably aren't very likely to blatantly violate any laws. There are significant repercussions for such behavior. With privately held companies, there's a lot more room to work in shady nonsense like we're discussing in part because there's so much less oversight. 2. I can at least point to plenty of evidence that this happens. Take this 2021 UC Berkeley Study [1] showing that job applicants with black-sounding names were significantly less likely to get called back than applicants with white-sounding names. What's the motivation there? Good ol' fashioned racism. Y'know, the exact motivation that prompted the laws in question to be written. [1] https://eml.berkeley.edu//~crwalters/papers/randres.pdf https://eml.berkeley.edu//~crwalters/papers/randres.pdf
- geraldwhen 4y ago
  If I wanted to dox myself I could list job postings. Companies do not care about unenforced laws. It’s not my job to argue with HR about what constitutes legal hiring practices.
MockObject 4y ago
There is bad-faith activity on this thread when a substantive comment like this is downvoted without rebuttal.
- freejazz 4y ago
  Not really, it seems like the poster's own grievances about ESG. I've been asked these questions at every job I've ever had, and that preceded ESG by decades... I wish people here could use reasonable judgment instead of a kind of judgment that reflects "something is possibly true technically, but not really realistic, but I'm going to treat as true anyway because it runs against a mainstream/political narrative so someone rebut me"
  - geraldwhen 4y ago
    I have inside knowledge with respect to fund investment.
    - freejazz 4y ago
      What does that have to do with my point?
  - MockObject 4y ago
    > ESG funds will buy more of your company’s stock if you have a higher percentage of women on boards, for example, and other metrics. This is as close to a neutral and objective description of ESG as could be written in English! That is not grievance, and it should not be downvoted as such.
    - freejazz 4y ago
      Yeah, that is a neutral description of it. My issue wasn't the description of ESG, but the conclusions drawn about how ESG is driving things (which I pointed out, significantly predated ESG) thats exactly the point I'm making about being obtuse for no reason at all. It's abundantly clear from my post that my issue is the conclusions the poster drawn about how ESG drives things, and not the poster's description of ESG on its own. Yet you are apparently under the belief pointing this out rebuts me? That's not reasonable at all.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

the_gastropod 4y ago

What you're describing would likely violate Title VII and the EEOC.

bombcar 4y ago
Blatant violations occur way more often than you think; nobody cares. Technically-legal-but-still-violating-the-spirit happens if the people involved bother asking legal about it.
- the_gastropod 4y ago
  Oh, I'm sure violations happen all the time. But I very much doubt such violations primarily benefit minorities. There's a reason these laws exist, after all. Further, "blatantly violating" these laws as a publicly traded company, to game ESG funds seems like a poor risk:reward gamble.
  - MockObject 4y ago
    If violations to improve ESG score are a poor risk:reward gamble, what are the rewards of these other violations that "happen all the time"? Are the rewards even greater than improvement of ESG score?
    - the_gastropod 4y ago
      1. The types of companies ESG funds can invest in (publicly traded companies) probably aren't very likely to blatantly violate any laws. There are significant repercussions for such behavior. With privately held companies, there's a lot more room to work in shady nonsense like we're discussing in part because there's so much less oversight. 2. I can at least point to plenty of evidence that this happens. Take this 2021 UC Berkeley Study [1] showing that job applicants with black-sounding names were significantly less likely to get called back than applicants with white-sounding names. What's the motivation there? Good ol' fashioned racism. Y'know, the exact motivation that prompted the laws in question to be written. [1] https://eml.berkeley.edu//~crwalters/papers/randres.pdf https://eml.berkeley.edu//~crwalters/papers/randres.pdf
geraldwhen 4y ago
If I wanted to dox myself I could list job postings. Companies do not care about unenforced laws. It’s not my job to argue with HR about what constitutes legal hiring practices.

MockObject 4y ago

There is bad-faith activity on this thread when a substantive comment like this is downvoted without rebuttal.

freejazz 4y ago
Not really, it seems like the poster's own grievances about ESG. I've been asked these questions at every job I've ever had, and that preceded ESG by decades... I wish people here could use reasonable judgment instead of a kind of judgment that reflects "something is possibly true technically, but not really realistic, but I'm going to treat as true anyway because it runs against a mainstream/political narrative so someone rebut me"
- geraldwhen 4y ago
  I have inside knowledge with respect to fund investment.
  - freejazz 4y ago
    What does that have to do with my point?
- MockObject 4y ago
  > ESG funds will buy more of your company’s stock if you have a higher percentage of women on boards, for example, and other metrics. This is as close to a neutral and objective description of ESG as could be written in English! That is not grievance, and it should not be downvoted as such.
  - freejazz 4y ago
    Yeah, that is a neutral description of it. My issue wasn't the description of ESG, but the conclusions drawn about how ESG is driving things (which I pointed out, significantly predated ESG) thats exactly the point I'm making about being obtuse for no reason at all. It's abundantly clear from my post that my issue is the conclusions the poster drawn about how ESG drives things, and not the poster's description of ESG on its own. Yet you are apparently under the belief pointing this out rebuts me? That's not reasonable at all.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]