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Both Norway and Sweden has had some 5-10X price hikes in 2022 and 2023. I used to pay the equivalent of 15 cents, now that same amount of electricity is 1-4 dol

Both Norway and Sweden has had some 5-10X price hikes in 2022 and 2023. I used to pay the equivalent of 15 cents, now that same amount of electricity is 1-4 dollars.

pbhjpbhj 4y ago
That might be because companies can sell the electricity abroad for a higher price? If electricity in Denmark/Germany/Finland (made up example) is super high then why sell it domestically at the low rate??
- fredrikholm 4y ago
  Deconstruction of nuclear power plants. Wind turbines are built in the north for both countries, where the vast majority of the population live in the south. This means that power has to be moved for distances that span the equivalent of several countries (Norway and Sweden are very long). South used to provide some ~30% of base power by nuclear, but due to political and economical[0] pressure they've been neglected and subsequently removed. [0] Sweden had nuclear specific taxation for several decades, constantly increasing until the point where a lot of power plants were unable to finance themselves. Recently, the tax was dropped. The narrative now is that "the market has spoken" about their lack of profitability, neglecting three decades of economical and political/PR warfare against them.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    So charging roughly $1.2 billion over a plant's lifetime, or a small fraction of the underfunded cleanup bill traditionally left behind in other countries. That's definitely the reason OL3 is a boondogle. Not the other $8 billion of graft.
    - fredrikholm 4y ago
      Where's that number from? "Effektskatten" peaked at 7 öre per produced kw/h. That's a ~40-50% tax exclusively for, and on top of existing taxes when prices were a fraction of what they are now. I don't know about Finland/OL3.
      - Schroedingersat 4y ago
        > Effektskatten" peaked at 7 öre per produced kw/h. That's a ~40-50% tax exclusively for, and on top of existing taxes when prices were a fraction of what they are now. And if you sum up every cent they ever paid per GW including the capacity charge, you get roughly $1-2bn per reactor or a bit less than the bill that the taxpayer gets left with after decomissioning and waste management is underfunded. It's also significantly less than insurance would cost without the Vienna convention and Paris convention.
        fredrikholm 4y ago
        Cheers, TIL. Source? What about the repercussions of closing them down prematurely? We're burning oil 24/7 at peak plants that are normally sleepibg most of the year. The amount of cheap coal power that we've imported to compensate for the closing of Barsebäck (more than a decade now) is terrible. Given the (political) unfeasability of building wind turbines near people, is it worth closing down functional plants to burn fossil fuels in their place? Genuinely curious; I'm not comfortable with either solution, but burning coal/oil seems like the worse option.
        Schroedingersat 4y ago
        "The thing I'm actively stopping right now by concern trolling is being stopped for some reason" Must be because the even less popular option of a nuclear refurb is the only option. There couldn't possibly be a much better option https://swedishwindenergy.com/external-news/plans-for-50-gw-offshore-wind-power-in-sweden https://swedishwindenergy.com/external-news/plans-for-50-gw-...
        fredrikholm 4y ago
        Forgive me, I'm having some troubles understanding the target of your first two sentences. Are you insinuating that I'm somehow opposed to wind power, or actively pretending that it isn't a viable alternative? I've paid as high as 700 öre ($0.7 USD) per kw/h, which is insane compared to the historical 15 öre. If building offshore wind parks in southern Sweden solves that problem, then I'm all for it. AFAIK, we haven't been doing that, and every suggestion that we do is faced with political backlash, NIMBY etc. Instead, the emphasis seems to be new nuclear, which makes no sense, as an alternative to the old "Sverige har för mycket el", which isn't something you hear any more.

Both Norway and Sweden has had some 5-10X price hikes in 2022 and 2023. I used to pay the equivalent of 15 cents, now that same amount of electricity is 1-4 dollars.

pbhjpbhj 4y ago

That might be because companies can sell the electricity abroad for a higher price? If electricity in Denmark/Germany/Finland (made up example) is super high then why sell it domestically at the low rate??

fredrikholm 4y ago
Deconstruction of nuclear power plants. Wind turbines are built in the north for both countries, where the vast majority of the population live in the south. This means that power has to be moved for distances that span the equivalent of several countries (Norway and Sweden are very long). South used to provide some ~30% of base power by nuclear, but due to political and economical[0] pressure they've been neglected and subsequently removed. [0] Sweden had nuclear specific taxation for several decades, constantly increasing until the point where a lot of power plants were unable to finance themselves. Recently, the tax was dropped. The narrative now is that "the market has spoken" about their lack of profitability, neglecting three decades of economical and political/PR warfare against them.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  So charging roughly $1.2 billion over a plant's lifetime, or a small fraction of the underfunded cleanup bill traditionally left behind in other countries. That's definitely the reason OL3 is a boondogle. Not the other $8 billion of graft.
  - fredrikholm 4y ago
    Where's that number from? "Effektskatten" peaked at 7 öre per produced kw/h. That's a ~40-50% tax exclusively for, and on top of existing taxes when prices were a fraction of what they are now. I don't know about Finland/OL3.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      > Effektskatten" peaked at 7 öre per produced kw/h. That's a ~40-50% tax exclusively for, and on top of existing taxes when prices were a fraction of what they are now. And if you sum up every cent they ever paid per GW including the capacity charge, you get roughly $1-2bn per reactor or a bit less than the bill that the taxpayer gets left with after decomissioning and waste management is underfunded. It's also significantly less than insurance would cost without the Vienna convention and Paris convention.
      - fredrikholm 4y ago
        Cheers, TIL. Source? What about the repercussions of closing them down prematurely? We're burning oil 24/7 at peak plants that are normally sleepibg most of the year. The amount of cheap coal power that we've imported to compensate for the closing of Barsebäck (more than a decade now) is terrible. Given the (political) unfeasability of building wind turbines near people, is it worth closing down functional plants to burn fossil fuels in their place? Genuinely curious; I'm not comfortable with either solution, but burning coal/oil seems like the worse option.
        Schroedingersat 4y ago
        "The thing I'm actively stopping right now by concern trolling is being stopped for some reason" Must be because the even less popular option of a nuclear refurb is the only option. There couldn't possibly be a much better option https://swedishwindenergy.com/external-news/plans-for-50-gw-offshore-wind-power-in-sweden https://swedishwindenergy.com/external-news/plans-for-50-gw-...
        fredrikholm 4y ago
        Forgive me, I'm having some troubles understanding the target of your first two sentences. Are you insinuating that I'm somehow opposed to wind power, or actively pretending that it isn't a viable alternative? I've paid as high as 700 öre ($0.7 USD) per kw/h, which is insane compared to the historical 15 öre. If building offshore wind parks in southern Sweden solves that problem, then I'm all for it. AFAIK, we haven't been doing that, and every suggestion that we do is faced with political backlash, NIMBY etc. Instead, the emphasis seems to be new nuclear, which makes no sense, as an alternative to the old "Sverige har för mycket el", which isn't something you hear any more.