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It's common for standups to be attended only by workers. They're a forum for open lateral communication, not communication up the ladder. As soon as you add ma

by timr 4y ago

It's common for standups to be attended only by workers. They're a forum for open lateral communication, not communication up the ladder. As soon as you add management into the mix, people get cagey and the standup becomes less effective.

taeric 4y ago
To expand on the idea a bit here, I thought the point was like a huddle between plays for the players. Yes, there should be a communication line out of the huddle to get information and such, but by and large the idea is to empower the team to do things the way that they think it needs doing.
- timr 4y ago
  Yes, exactly. Of course, lots of places do have intrusive management and turn standups into another form of supervision, but that's really not the point. It's sort of sad/ironic that GP was mocking the entire idea of a developer-led standup. I'm a PM now and I run my team's standups, but even that may not be ideal depending on the perception of PMs within the organization. I think it's great when there's a tech lead or senior team member who wants to do the job -- they have the authority and experience to resolve issues quickly, but are still perceived as a collaborator, not a supervisor.
  - gtirloni 4y ago
    > I'm a PM now and I run my team's standups You're management, you are not communicating laterally.
    - timr 4y ago
      PM has "manager" in the name, but it's not management. Literally everything a good PM does comes from credibility, competence and soft power. A PM's primary mandate is to make a product that benefits the user, but we don't make staffing decisions, do 1:1s, performance reviews or other "management" things. It's why the job is hard. But I openly acknowledge that PM can be perceived as a tentacle of management, which is why I said it's not necessarily right to follow my current example.
gtirloni 4y ago
>It's common for standups to be attended only by workers I have never seen this in 20+ years of work. Management is supposed to be in the standup to help remove blockers.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  Scrum Master is the one who handles removing blockers, "Management" doesn't need to be there for every standup. It's a waste of their time. Scrum Masters should also be just a member of the team, not a "master" per se.

by timr 4y ago

taeric 4y ago

To expand on the idea a bit here, I thought the point was like a huddle between plays for the players. Yes, there should be a communication line out of the huddle to get information and such, but by and large the idea is to empower the team to do things the way that they think it needs doing.

timr 4y ago
Yes, exactly. Of course, lots of places do have intrusive management and turn standups into another form of supervision, but that's really not the point. It's sort of sad/ironic that GP was mocking the entire idea of a developer-led standup. I'm a PM now and I run my team's standups, but even that may not be ideal depending on the perception of PMs within the organization. I think it's great when there's a tech lead or senior team member who wants to do the job -- they have the authority and experience to resolve issues quickly, but are still perceived as a collaborator, not a supervisor.
- gtirloni 4y ago
  > I'm a PM now and I run my team's standups You're management, you are not communicating laterally.
  - timr 4y ago
    PM has "manager" in the name, but it's not management. Literally everything a good PM does comes from credibility, competence and soft power. A PM's primary mandate is to make a product that benefits the user, but we don't make staffing decisions, do 1:1s, performance reviews or other "management" things. It's why the job is hard. But I openly acknowledge that PM can be perceived as a tentacle of management, which is why I said it's not necessarily right to follow my current example.

gtirloni 4y ago

>It's common for standups to be attended only by workers I have never seen this in 20+ years of work. Management is supposed to be in the standup to help remove blockers.

theshrike79 4y ago
Scrum Master is the one who handles removing blockers, "Management" doesn't need to be there for every standup. It's a waste of their time. Scrum Masters should also be just a member of the team, not a "master" per se.