4 ms·

Enough is enough. Stop using the public as testing grounds for software development and marketing defunct wares. If tech is meant to bring us the utopia we all

by zahma 4y ago

Enough is enough. Stop using the public as testing grounds for software development and marketing defunct wares. If tech is meant to bring us the utopia we all need but don't know we want, the least that these companies who exploit public space can do is to get some ethics before someone does die. As if it isn't enough that a multi-car pile up won't ruin some people's days and waste so much time dealing with insurance, why are we expected to put up with this in the name of "progress?" I also don't accept the argument that human are imperfect drivers, so it's OK if Tesla's shit software is placed at the hands of experienced drivers. People are not good at driving, and that's exactly why we don't need to enable our stupidity in a high-speed death box. Even if someone is a good driver, the tendency to relax when you are told that you don't need to be totally poised for action is a great way to delay response time, so I'd expect this to happen 99/100 with the best drivers in the world. In a situation with a relaxed driver, there's no humanly possible response time that's going to prevent this crash from happening. Tesla ought not proffer software that is anything less than perfect and expect the public to fill in the holes. It's clear that drivers today are less patient, more distracted, and less competent all while embattled with environmental distractions. And as if it isn't hard enough to monitor 360 degrees, now I need to focus on which kind of car is in my area? In some places, it's not even possible to avoid this kind of collision. I can only imagine what would happen on I-40 in Raleigh or I-95. That's truly frightening. I drive a Tesla and actually really enjoy the car, but I still get phantom braking issues, albeit the car does not fully brake and change lanes. Thank goodness I turned all of those features off. And that leads me to think that Tesla knows they have kinks to iron out. With all the data that they collect, they must have known accidents like this could happen and still put their product out. I want to see criminal charges, fines, and a Congressional investigation leading to legislation. What's the price of a life, Mr. Musk? Would you put your kids in one of your cars, turn on auto-pilot, and expect them to make it from Point A to Point B each and every time?

freedomben 4y ago
0 mistakes seems like a pretty extremist and impossible standard. If that standard had been applied to automobiles before they could be driven on roads, we'd still have horse and buggy everywhere and we'd be dealing with catastrophic amounts of horse shit on all the city streets
- amf12 4y ago
  > 0 mistakes seems like a pretty extremist and impossible standard. Perhaps, have an upper limit for the speed at which these "beta" features are illegal. I don't know why Tesla doesn't support "self driving" feature only at lower speed, where the risk of fatal collisions is lower.
- zahma 4y ago
  Fine, but if we are to lower the threshold from perfect to some mistakes, then this category of error needs to he empty. Phantom braking is in a less severe category, as it is manageable. In this case, I think the driver or following car could’ve escaped an accident.
- ncr100 4y ago
  Zero mistakes is something a machine can be built to fulfill. Re the hyperbole of horse and buggy: What if your pacemaker decides to go to 200 beats per minute late at night. The cult of ship fast and fix it based on feedback is taking us further from ethical behavior.
  - freedomben 4y ago
    > Zero mistakes is something a machine can be built to fulfill. Even the lunar lander and other NASA software that received mountains of testing/review has had errors. I don't think it's possible (for a human at least) to design perfect error-free software. And that's before considering hardware faults/failures that do happen in the real world. > Re the hyperbole of horse and buggy: What if your pacemaker decides to go to 200 beats per minute late at night. I would hate that of course, but I'd rather have the option to get a pacemaker knowing that in rare cases it might kill me. Without the pacemaker option a lot of people would be dead anyway. > The cult of ship fast and fix it based on feedback is taking us further from ethical behavior. I couldn't agree with you more on that one.
ncr100 4y ago
Agree 100%. It's unethical. The engineers involved should face consequences. The executives should too I feel they shipped a product suitable for a Different reality of roadways. Different requirements. Not what we have today.
ModernMech 4y ago
> before someone does die. Too late for that. Tesla autopilot is responsible for decapitating not 1 but 2 people in separate accidents. Tesla had 3 years to fix the problem after the first decapitation but decided to double down on their flawed (and now fatal) autonomy strategy. Imagine if bridges were built this way. https://cdllife.com/2019/feds-say-autopilot-was-engaged-in-fatal-tesla-vs-semi-crash/ https://cdllife.com/2019/feds-say-autopilot-was-engaged-in-f...

by zahma 4y ago

freedomben 4y ago

0 mistakes seems like a pretty extremist and impossible standard. If that standard had been applied to automobiles before they could be driven on roads, we'd still have horse and buggy everywhere and we'd be dealing with catastrophic amounts of horse shit on all the city streets

amf12 4y ago
> 0 mistakes seems like a pretty extremist and impossible standard. Perhaps, have an upper limit for the speed at which these "beta" features are illegal. I don't know why Tesla doesn't support "self driving" feature only at lower speed, where the risk of fatal collisions is lower.
zahma 4y ago
Fine, but if we are to lower the threshold from perfect to some mistakes, then this category of error needs to he empty. Phantom braking is in a less severe category, as it is manageable. In this case, I think the driver or following car could’ve escaped an accident.
ncr100 4y ago
Zero mistakes is something a machine can be built to fulfill. Re the hyperbole of horse and buggy: What if your pacemaker decides to go to 200 beats per minute late at night. The cult of ship fast and fix it based on feedback is taking us further from ethical behavior.
- freedomben 4y ago
  > Zero mistakes is something a machine can be built to fulfill. Even the lunar lander and other NASA software that received mountains of testing/review has had errors. I don't think it's possible (for a human at least) to design perfect error-free software. And that's before considering hardware faults/failures that do happen in the real world. > Re the hyperbole of horse and buggy: What if your pacemaker decides to go to 200 beats per minute late at night. I would hate that of course, but I'd rather have the option to get a pacemaker knowing that in rare cases it might kill me. Without the pacemaker option a lot of people would be dead anyway. > The cult of ship fast and fix it based on feedback is taking us further from ethical behavior. I couldn't agree with you more on that one.

ncr100 4y ago

Agree 100%. It's unethical. The engineers involved should face consequences. The executives should too I feel they shipped a product suitable for a Different reality of roadways. Different requirements. Not what we have today.

ModernMech 4y ago

> before someone does die. Too late for that. Tesla autopilot is responsible for decapitating not 1 but 2 people in separate accidents. Tesla had 3 years to fix the problem after the first decapitation but decided to double down on their flawed (and now fatal) autonomy strategy. Imagine if bridges were built this way. https://cdllife.com/2019/feds-say-autopilot-was-engaged-in-fatal-tesla-vs-semi-crash/ https://cdllife.com/2019/feds-say-autopilot-was-engaged-in-f...