4 ms·

The problem with almost all LISP tutorials, books,... is there's no guide on how to install toolings at the beginning. Instead, there's just praise and praise.

The problem with almost all LISP tutorials, books,... is there's no guide on how to install toolings at the beginning. Instead, there's just praise and praise. Such a missed opportunity.

rjsw 4y ago
There is a section of the Preface on "Configuring Your Development Environment", seems pretty complete to me.
- revskill 4y ago
  Preface section as i see is applied for whom who already get used to LISP. If audience is whom who doesn't know anything about LISP, you've lost time to go around to find things you want. Other languages have playground, or at least INSTALLING at the chapter 1. It should answer some IMPORTANT questions: - How to install the compiler - Which IDE best to use, or which extension. - How to install packages, how to build it.
  - lilith_of_debts 4y ago
    https://llthw.common-lisp.dev/configuration.html https://llthw.common-lisp.dev/configuration.html Literally everything you're asking for is in that link. The author has the opinion that you don't need fancy IDE features which is an arguable point but they do list what editors for each OS work in their experience.
    - noNothing 4y ago
      I first leaned lisp in college (1964) and have not touched it much since then. But now that I am retired I am going to give it a shot. What extensions in vscode should I use? I installed steel bank and quicklisp. Thanks,
Mikeb85 4y ago
Nowadays it's pretty much as simple as installing SBCL and then Emacs-Slime.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  Unless you don't want to use Emacs, which is completely understandable. I know SLIME is great but we really shouldn't force Emacs on people.
  - nequo 4y ago
    Emacs is also great though. For all intents and purposes, with evil mode it can act as just another implementation of Vim.[1] But for those who like neither Emacs nor Vim ... I don't know. [1] https://github.com/emacs-evil/evil https://github.com/emacs-evil/evil
    - sigmonsays 4y ago
      i use evil, because muscle memory. I havn't spent the time to train myself to learn something different. I probably never will because I still use vi/vim on remote machines. doom emacs was a game changer for me and allowed me to pretty quickly switch from neovim. Since investing more in the ecosystem, I wont be letting go of emacs anytime soon
    - int_19h 4y ago
      I want an editor that integrates with my OS, not one that tries to replace it with something highly idiosyncratic.
      - nequo 4y ago
        Then use Emacs only for SLIME and not for anything else?
        int_19h 4y ago
        Let me clarify. I want an editor to behave the same as every other editor on my system. That means standard shortcuts for basic operations, for starters, the use of standard OS dialogs etc. Last I tried Emacs, you had to spend considerable time browsing the docs to figure out all the little things that need to be set in the config to get 90% there.
franknstein 4y ago
"Clojure for brave and true" has in my opinion an excellent section on Clojure tooling in emacs (which I wish i read when I was starting out with emacs).
- fm2606 4y ago
  CFBT free online: https://www.braveclojure.com/clojure-for-the-brave-and-true/ https://www.braveclojure.com/clojure-for-the-brave-and-true/ Chapter 2 https://www.braveclojure.com/basic-emacs/ https://www.braveclojure.com/basic-emacs/ helped me get started with Emacs with just knowledge to be somewhat productive and start learning more.
- WillPostForFood 4y ago
  It is a strength (they do cover tooling), but also a weakness. Throwing beginners into learning emacs, as well as a new language, and likely a new programming paradigm, is a massive ask. I think it is mistake for Clojure that Brave and True is the most recommended book to start out.
  - franknstein 4y ago
    I agree but i don't think that changes the facto that it's an excellent introduction to working with Emacs and beginner Clojure tooling.
vindarel 4y ago
That's why I contribute to the Cookbook: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/getting-started.html https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/getting-started.h... straight up to practical matters, code first.

The problem with almost all LISP tutorials, books,... is there's no guide on how to install toolings at the beginning. Instead, there's just praise and praise. Such a missed opportunity.

rjsw 4y ago

There is a section of the Preface on "Configuring Your Development Environment", seems pretty complete to me.

revskill 4y ago
Preface section as i see is applied for whom who already get used to LISP. If audience is whom who doesn't know anything about LISP, you've lost time to go around to find things you want. Other languages have playground, or at least INSTALLING at the chapter 1. It should answer some IMPORTANT questions: - How to install the compiler - Which IDE best to use, or which extension. - How to install packages, how to build it.
- lilith_of_debts 4y ago
  https://llthw.common-lisp.dev/configuration.html https://llthw.common-lisp.dev/configuration.html Literally everything you're asking for is in that link. The author has the opinion that you don't need fancy IDE features which is an arguable point but they do list what editors for each OS work in their experience.
  - noNothing 4y ago
    I first leaned lisp in college (1964) and have not touched it much since then. But now that I am retired I am going to give it a shot. What extensions in vscode should I use? I installed steel bank and quicklisp. Thanks,

Mikeb85 4y ago

Nowadays it's pretty much as simple as installing SBCL and then Emacs-Slime.

nerdponx 4y ago
Unless you don't want to use Emacs, which is completely understandable. I know SLIME is great but we really shouldn't force Emacs on people.
- nequo 4y ago
  Emacs is also great though. For all intents and purposes, with evil mode it can act as just another implementation of Vim.[1] But for those who like neither Emacs nor Vim ... I don't know. [1] https://github.com/emacs-evil/evil https://github.com/emacs-evil/evil
  - sigmonsays 4y ago
    i use evil, because muscle memory. I havn't spent the time to train myself to learn something different. I probably never will because I still use vi/vim on remote machines. doom emacs was a game changer for me and allowed me to pretty quickly switch from neovim. Since investing more in the ecosystem, I wont be letting go of emacs anytime soon
  - int_19h 4y ago
    I want an editor that integrates with my OS, not one that tries to replace it with something highly idiosyncratic.
    - nequo 4y ago
      Then use Emacs only for SLIME and not for anything else?
      - int_19h 4y ago
        Let me clarify. I want an editor to behave the same as every other editor on my system. That means standard shortcuts for basic operations, for starters, the use of standard OS dialogs etc. Last I tried Emacs, you had to spend considerable time browsing the docs to figure out all the little things that need to be set in the config to get 90% there.

franknstein 4y ago

"Clojure for brave and true" has in my opinion an excellent section on Clojure tooling in emacs (which I wish i read when I was starting out with emacs).

fm2606 4y ago
CFBT free online: https://www.braveclojure.com/clojure-for-the-brave-and-true/ https://www.braveclojure.com/clojure-for-the-brave-and-true/ Chapter 2 https://www.braveclojure.com/basic-emacs/ https://www.braveclojure.com/basic-emacs/ helped me get started with Emacs with just knowledge to be somewhat productive and start learning more.
WillPostForFood 4y ago
It is a strength (they do cover tooling), but also a weakness. Throwing beginners into learning emacs, as well as a new language, and likely a new programming paradigm, is a massive ask. I think it is mistake for Clojure that Brave and True is the most recommended book to start out.
- franknstein 4y ago
  I agree but i don't think that changes the facto that it's an excellent introduction to working with Emacs and beginner Clojure tooling.

vindarel 4y ago

That's why I contribute to the Cookbook: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/getting-started.html https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/getting-started.h... straight up to practical matters, code first.