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I don't think my choices were particularly interesting, I'm was just loosely aware of their backgrounds and confirmed them as MBA graduates with a few searches.

by ssharp 4y ago

I don't think my choices were particularly interesting, I'm was just loosely aware of their backgrounds and confirmed them as MBA graduates with a few searches. The parent comment (and a common HN trope) was about how awful MBAs are at running companies. Those are 3 counterexamples to that trope. All three are highly successful in their CEO roles. Given that Engineer -> MBA is a pretty common path, maybe we should just stop with the broad strokes?

ghaff 4y ago
Yes, and especially for people above a certain age, an MBA--whether a regular two-year program or an executive program--was often treated as table-stakes for a lot of roles at companies that weren't hands-on engineering roles. And, yes, in many cases, MBA grads who were looking to work at companies in computer-related fields had some sort of engineering undergrad degree.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
In my comment MBA is a state of being, not a conferred degree. Jamie Dimon comes from financial services, which is a very different industry. Engineering minded firms in financial services were sponsored by finance folks that believed engineering / science / math / computer techniques towards finance would make them more competitive. Internally at JPMC Dimon invests heavily in tech and gives tech engineering leadership autonomy. So as CEO he has delegated a lot to the engineering culture and shielded it from the accountants and MBAs. (Again, MBA the state of being which can not be attributed solely to spending two years in a program)
- abakker 4y ago
  See also: no true scotsman.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Nah, just an error of description. The question is whether the person you put in charge is deeply knowledgeable about the product, capable of working on the product, and using that to make decisions. As opposed to someone making decisions in a trained-for-generic-business way. MBA vs. not-MBA is an oversimplification. Especially since someone can have an engineering degree or whatever and an MBA. But that's not a no true scotsman. There is a pretty clear dividing line between the two groups.
newsclues 4y ago
The MBAs people hate, are the people who lack experience and took a short path to the MBA because they see it as a way to accelerate their career. It's a lack of experience + ego inflation from an advanced degree that is a dangerous combination.
- ssharp 4y ago
  Are there good examples of people like this that then rose to the position of CEO and failed? There are plenty of CEOs who have failed, so is a disproportionate amount these "short-path" MBAs who have failed after climbing so high?
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
Broadly speaking, anyone drawing broad conclusions on the basis of education is wrong. Anti-MBA, anti-engineering, anti-non-Ivy, anti-Ivy, et cetera. To the degree there is information in these conversations, it’s someone holding these broad-brush views being generally unqualified for higher leadership.
btilly 4y ago
I think that the broad strokes capture something real. Namely that an MBA does not qualify you to run a tech company. As your examples show, it also doesn't disqualify you. In fact there are plenty of roles where it brings value. But the model of "I have an MBA, I can run any kind of business" is dramatically false. You need to have useful theories about how the company actually works to run it. And the theories by which tech companies work usually make a lot more sense if you have a tech background. There are exceptions - for example Meg Whitman did an excellent job of building eBay when she took over early on - but they are notable as exceptions. And I know of no exceptions among companies who are in one way or another primarily selling their tech expertise.

by ssharp 4y ago

ghaff 4y ago

Yes, and especially for people above a certain age, an MBA--whether a regular two-year program or an executive program--was often treated as table-stakes for a lot of roles at companies that weren't hands-on engineering roles. And, yes, in many cases, MBA grads who were looking to work at companies in computer-related fields had some sort of engineering undergrad degree.

fnordpiglet 4y ago

In my comment MBA is a state of being, not a conferred degree. Jamie Dimon comes from financial services, which is a very different industry. Engineering minded firms in financial services were sponsored by finance folks that believed engineering / science / math / computer techniques towards finance would make them more competitive. Internally at JPMC Dimon invests heavily in tech and gives tech engineering leadership autonomy. So as CEO he has delegated a lot to the engineering culture and shielded it from the accountants and MBAs. (Again, MBA the state of being which can not be attributed solely to spending two years in a program)

abakker 4y ago
See also: no true scotsman.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  Nah, just an error of description. The question is whether the person you put in charge is deeply knowledgeable about the product, capable of working on the product, and using that to make decisions. As opposed to someone making decisions in a trained-for-generic-business way. MBA vs. not-MBA is an oversimplification. Especially since someone can have an engineering degree or whatever and an MBA. But that's not a no true scotsman. There is a pretty clear dividing line between the two groups.

newsclues 4y ago

The MBAs people hate, are the people who lack experience and took a short path to the MBA because they see it as a way to accelerate their career. It's a lack of experience + ego inflation from an advanced degree that is a dangerous combination.

ssharp 4y ago
Are there good examples of people like this that then rose to the position of CEO and failed? There are plenty of CEOs who have failed, so is a disproportionate amount these "short-path" MBAs who have failed after climbing so high?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

Broadly speaking, anyone drawing broad conclusions on the basis of education is wrong. Anti-MBA, anti-engineering, anti-non-Ivy, anti-Ivy, et cetera. To the degree there is information in these conversations, it’s someone holding these broad-brush views being generally unqualified for higher leadership.

btilly 4y ago

I think that the broad strokes capture something real. Namely that an MBA does not qualify you to run a tech company. As your examples show, it also doesn't disqualify you. In fact there are plenty of roles where it brings value. But the model of "I have an MBA, I can run any kind of business" is dramatically false. You need to have useful theories about how the company actually works to run it. And the theories by which tech companies work usually make a lot more sense if you have a tech background. There are exceptions - for example Meg Whitman did an excellent job of building eBay when she took over early on - but they are notable as exceptions. And I know of no exceptions among companies who are in one way or another primarily selling their tech expertise.