6 ms·

Intermittent Fasting Completely Reverses Type 2 Diabetes in Study

89 points by mgh2 4y ago

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
I noticed this only studies a follow up for 1 yr. But I understand most of these diets, the benefits are reversed 90% within 5 years because of the un feasibility of keeping it up that long. Do we know if IF keeps its positive effects differently than other diets (benefits that reverse in the vast majority of cases within 5 years)?
- ed25519FUUU 4y ago
  Presumably the diets of lifestyle changes reverse with those lifestyle change reversals.
- throwaway1777 4y ago
  IF is not that hard to do, just skip breakfast and eat dinner at a reasonable hour.
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    That also means skipping morning coffee, which has been really hard for me.
    - sp332 4y ago
      Do you have a source for that? Every source I see with a quick search says that coffee has very few calories and shouldn't break a fast.
      - rolisz 4y ago
        Sure, black coffee is fine, but I hate the taste of coffee, so I drink it with milk and Monin syrup
        jjeaff 4y ago
        In that case, just take a caffeine supplement that has theine in it. It would be a lot better for you than coffee.
        sverona 4y ago
        Suggestion: make better coffee.
        rolisz 4y ago
        I've tried V60s, high-end Espressos, still hate the bitter taste of black coffee. Any other suggestions?
        JoyfulTurkey 4y ago
        Maybe cold brew? I felt it was less acidic and bitter when I used to make it. I have a Toddy and with that maker you end up with a concentrate that you dilute with either hot or cold water.
      - lytefm 4y ago
        I can confirm that black coffee usually works just fine when doing intermittent fasting.
    - JoyfulTurkey 4y ago
      I’ve always drank liquids in the AM even when doing IF. Just water or straight black coffee. Or are you taking the coffee with cream and sugar?
    - irrational 4y ago
      I don’t drink coffee, but I do drink a bunch of water every morning. I don’t really think of low calorie drinks as affecting IF.
    - senectus1 4y ago
      drink it black with no sugar. that wont affect your IF process.
  - ivanche 4y ago
    For extra benefits, don't eat carbs in the first 4 hours of eating window. Your focus, concentration and general mental sharpness will skyrocket.
- riffraff 4y ago
  I'm wary of fad diets, but why shouldn't IF be sustainable long term? Many groups (e.g. for religious reasons) do fasting regularly, and have done it for millennia. At worst, IF just limits your food intake, but it does not seem like it would provide you with an unbalanced diet.
  - distantaidenn 4y ago
    I've been doing IF for 20 years. I read the science way back when, and it made sense to me -- I never looked back. Early breakfast always made me feel queasy, anyway (since childhood), so it wasn't much of a jump. I typically don't eat until dinner. I'll alter this for special occasions, or if I didn't eat enough the day prior. Sometimes I'll just plain forget to eat until 21:00 or so, if I'm busy on a project. I follow this pattern about 5-6 days a week. As for my blood glucose levels, based on the continuous monitoring devices I've used, it's pretty stable. I may see a slight dip in the afternoon, then returns to baseline and stabilizes. After a meal, it will rise for about 30 minutes (within normal parameters), then back to baseline. IF is anything but a fad diet and shouldn't be lumped in with such. If anything, one could argue that IF is one of (if not) the original eating patterns based on the lifestyles our hunter/gatherer ancestors and modern nomadic cultures. The modern concept of 3 squares a day might in fact be the fad. Food has only been plentiful since the agriculture revolution about 12,000 years ago. Before then, it was feast and famine. For anyone on the fence, I say give it a try (after consulting with your physician). The more studies we are seeing about this pattern, the more benefits we are discovering.
    - probablynish 4y ago
      Can I ask which continuous monitoring device you use? I'm looking for one to see how my blood sugar fluctuates throughout the day. The good ones seem to be behind a prescription wall, so I was considering the freestyle libre.
      - distantaidenn 4y ago
        Freestyle Libre : https://www.freestyle.abbott/us-en/home.html https://www.freestyle.abbott/us-en/home.html They're a bit pricey if you buy them direct (sans insurance). It feels like you have an additional sense when wearing it.
- sp332 4y ago
  This says the benefits of 3 months of IF lasted at least one year. With further study we could probably find a shorter IF period and/or a longer benefit duration and just alternate on a schedule.
- john61 4y ago
  I do dinner canceling one or two times a week for more than ten years now. And I am still enjoying it. No reason to drop it.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    I haven't eaten breakfast since I was in the military. I only eat one if someone else is paying for it. Unless I stuff my face late at night, I get 14-15 hour fasts every day regularly.
    - princevegeta89 4y ago
      Great. But also keep in mind that breakfast is your most important meal for the day. You could probably skip lunch instead.
      - synthc 4y ago
        Any references that prove this? I have been skipping breakfast for years, and feel fine. Eating breakfast makes me feel sluggish
        theshrike79 4y ago
        Just the thought of a breakfast makes my stomach churn. And if I eat something I usually get hungry a lot faster than if I'd just skip the whole breakfast.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - blitzar 4y ago
        > breakfast is your most important meal for the day Sauce please?
        princevegeta89 4y ago
        Sure https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181126-is-breakfast-good-for-your-health https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181126-is-breakfast-goo... https://share.upmc.com/2017/07/reasons-breakfast-is-important/ https://share.upmc.com/2017/07/reasons-breakfast-is-importan... https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-you-really-need-to-eat-breakfast/ https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-you-really-need-to-eat... https://www.piedmont.org/living-better/why-breakfast-is-the-most-important-meal-of-the-day https://www.piedmont.org/living-better/why-breakfast-is-the-...
- lm28469 4y ago
  > the benefits are reversed 90% within 5 years because of the un feasibility of keeping it up that long I'm on IF for 10 years, it's not a diet but a lifestyle. This is not a "drink only tea and broth" or "you can only eat raw veggies" type of thing
idealmedtech 4y ago
Type 2 in many ways is a disease that comes from struggling with diet and exercise. There are many medically valid reasons for that to be so, but it still is necessary to try and address them as much as you are able if you're struggling with Type 2. It may save your life.
mrwhisper 4y ago
Do we know how long each fast was and at what cadence? My dad is OMAD and keto (mostly carnivore) and swears by it. He had high blood pressure for years and has been able to rid meds entirely.
- mgarfias 4y ago
  In for answers to this question too
cbhl 4y ago
Study appears to have been conducted in China. NIH abstracts mention in addition to the intermittent fasting the use of a "chinese medical nutrition therapy" diet. Earlier abstract from Jul 2022 says the treatment group did IF 5 days and then 10 days of habitual eating, repeated for a 90 day (3 month) period. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36192924/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36192924/ (Jul 2022 - 3 mo treatment, 3 mo follow-up) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ (Dec 2022 - 1-year follow up) Presumably we won't know "within 5 years" until four years from now (and that assumes the participants in the original study can still be reached by then).
anikom15 4y ago
I think IF can teach people that they don’t actually need to eat very much, and that they mostly eat out of habit. I have only ever eaten food when I’m actually hungry, ever since I was born, and have always been thin. Some people say I’m too thin. Often eating is a chore for me, and I’ll push myself to do other things until I am absolutely starving. My eating habits have changed with age. When I was young I would have to eat three or four times a day. As I get older I only need one or two meals.
- polishdude20 4y ago
  As I get older I realize I need to lift weights and try and gain more muscle and strength. Reducing my caloric intake would hinder that.
  - probablynish 4y ago
    It seems possible to do intermittent fasting (for example the typical 16 hours fasted / 8 hours eating schedule) and still get enough calories. You just have to fit them into the 8 hours. My own problem is that if I skip any meal I get hungry enough that my brain doesn't work well and I can't sleep. But I'm already as light as I can get without being dangerously underweight, so maybe that's my body sending a valid message.
    - grogers 4y ago
      Regarding hunger, it only takes a week or two of changing your eating pattern to have your brain realize that your old mealtime is no longer mealtime. After that you won't get a spike in hunger from "skipping" what used to be your mealtime, because it isn't any more. But if you are happy then don't change anything (or maybe eat more total?), unless you just want to experiment.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Be careful you don't end up wrecking your joints and/or tendons.
probablynish 4y ago
I wonder how much of the results from this intervention are driven purely by the act of fasting for 16 hours out of every 24, vs the associated acts of consuming fewer calories and altering diets? The abstracts posted below ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36192924/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36192924/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ ) indicate that the participants also had their diets altered (to "a MFH plants and wholegrains diet") and lost weight implying that their caloric intake fell. Is the real effect here that they ate healthier and lost weight, or did the fasting specifically have an effect on top of that? A nice podcast episode on the topic is https://peterattiamd.com/jasonfung/ https://peterattiamd.com/jasonfung/
- kcplate 4y ago
  > I wonder how much of the results from this intervention are driven purely by the act of fasting for 16 hours out of every 24, vs the associated acts of consuming fewer calories and altering diets? A lot of these types of eating strategies simply create a caloric deficit easily. For instance for me, keto creates satiety feeling with less calories then other diets I have tried. IF and OMAD eating strategies kind of does the same thing in my experience. The fast breaking meal eliminates the hunger and satiety usually sets in pretty quickly with less calories.
331c8c71 4y ago
There are papers reporting that very low calorie diet (VLCD) has similar effects. Not sure whether IF is any special when compared to VLCD rather than the baseline (no intervention).
- theshrike79 4y ago
  As someone who had tried both, IF is easier to stick to mentally. There's only so much food you can stuff in your face during the eating window - and if you time it right, you'll be asleep for pretty much half the fast time anyway. Last meal around 20:00 in the evening, skip breakfast, lunch at noon. That's a 16 hour fast easily. After you fast for a while (a week or two) your body gets used to it and it gets easier, any feelings of hunger go away pretty fast.
- lytefm 4y ago
  VLCD is extremely difficult to do. I doubt that many people would be able to stick to it outside of a controlled setting. IF on the other hand doesn't require you to eat less calories than your body requires. Skipping breakfast works pretty effortless on the long term.
romseb 4y ago
Unfortunately, the abstract does not contain any information on the specific window of eating. Can someone with full access shed light on this?
Someone 4y ago
Type 2 diabetes is strongly associated with being overweight, and it it is well-known that weight loss can reverse it, so my first thought was “how did they control for weight loss?”. From what I can find online, I’m. It convinced they did that. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ says: “The mean body weight of participants in the CMNT group was reduced by 5.93 kg (SD 2.47) compared to 0.27 kg (1.43) in the control group” I also found https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-looking-at-intermittent-fasting-and-type-2-diabetes/ https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-..., which says (cherry-picking a bit rom that page, but IMO, that’s not a problem for this argument): “This is a relatively small study and the main problem is that weight loss was much greater in those allocated to intermittent fasting. This is not surprising but a proper comparison would be with individuals who reduced their food intake uniformly over time to the same degree as those doing intermittent fasting. The bottom line is that if obese/overweight persons with diabetes lose substantial amounts of weight their diabetes is likely to go into remission. This study does not show that intermittent fasting is superior to uniform caloric restriction.“ and “So, this study did not compare two diets with the same energy intake as the intermittent diet was about 75% of energy intake compared to normal intake. Therefore there is no surprise that the intermittent diet group lost weight (almost 6kg on average or about 10% of starting body weight). As one of the best predictors of achieving remission in type 2 diabetes is weight loss, it is impossible to say if it is intermittent fasting which is helping to induce remission as it is most likely to be the result of the weight loss” (It surprised me to read “almost 6kg on average or about 10% of starting body weight”. I know not all Chinese are large, but 60kg and (from the pubmed link “body mass index (BMI) of 19.1 to 30.4”?) Because of that, I doubt the conclusion is correct, and it wasn’t the intermittent fasting but the weight loss that was the main factor. (That page also gives some info about the experiment: “for five days people ate only 840kcal per day and for the following 10 days they ate according to their appetite following the Chinese dietary guidelines for a total of 3 months”)
- wink 4y ago
  6kg less doesn't sound like enough to provoke such a strong reaction though? I mean, just as a total layman who is regularly gaining and losing about 5 kg, I can't imagine that would be enough to trigger getting or losing the type 2 Diabetes...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
not_your_mentat 4y ago
I'm wary of a small study (36 people over 3 months) drawing massive conclusions ("Intermittent Fasting Completely Reverses Type 2 Diabetes in Study"). Any claim of reversing diabetes is always conditioned (for how long and under what conditions) and headlines seldom if ever capture that nuance. That critique out of the way, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in September of last year. There's definitely genetic predisposition for it on my paternal side, but I have also been eating like a king and dipped even deeper into my indulgences as a primary coping strategy for social distancing associated with COVID. In September, my average blood glucose was 180. Following the advice of a nutritionist (my sister), I switched to a mostly whole food plant based diet with some intermittent fasting (skipping supper, sometimes breakfast). At present, my average blood glucose is 125. I'm also down 25 lbs since September if last year. I'm still taking metformin, which I expect to take until doing so gives me sugar lows. It hasn't been all at once and I'm not terribly strict about it. My meal plan generally looks something like this: Morning: an apple, a pear, a banana, other fruit, vitamins, ~1000ml water (I found that if I have a clear Nalgene water bottle next to me while I work that I just drink water; who knew). Lunch: whole food plant based leftovers (I love to cook and am currently making a lot of Indian food and soups), an apple, some other fruit, maybe going out to lunch with friends and eating whatever the hell I want (whatever the hell I want progressively is becoming fruits and vegetables, which feels weird emotionally). Afternoon: ~1000ml water, fruit. Dinner: fruit, something I or my SO cooks (generally whole food plant based), maybe dining out and eating whatever the hell I want (see above). I don't drink soda and have not since the early 2000's. I really don't drink anything but water, unless it's Thanksgiving, Christmas, or I'm on an airplane. I stopped thinking about Diets and have started thinking about my diet. I see this shift in food intake as a permanent thing, permanent enough that my SO and I are considering moving somewhere closer to year round fresh fruits and vegetables. Resources that have been helpful have been a good diabetes specialist (mine is also diabetic and also familiar with a whole food plant based approach to living with diabetes), a great nutritionist (I'm biased and she's my sister), and the book Mastering Diabetes (it can be a little "scare your grandma" and they're selling something beyond the book, but as I have been led to understand it is a strong representation of the state of our understanding of diabetes and diet). If you decide to try a whole food plant based approach, don't rush it. It can be really hard space mentally and emotionally. I had time where I was literally sobbing on the floor because I didn't know how to feed myself anymore and really didn't want to retread my dad's path. It can be hard at first, but it's yielded real results for me (in my 3 month study) and it's something that continues to get both easier and more enjoyable and which I am planning on doing for the rest of my life. I hope my sampling of 1 is helpful. I watched my dad struggle and slowly die from diabetes complications my whole life, losing toes and a kidney, not sleeping because of severe neuropathy, having dry itchy skin that would bleed when he scratched it and then not heal, and needing insulin injections multiple times a day. I don't wish that on anyone.

89 points by mgh2 4y ago

I noticed this only studies a follow up for 1 yr. But I understand most of these diets, the benefits are reversed 90% within 5 years because of the un feasibility of keeping it up that long. Do we know if IF keeps its positive effects differently than other diets (benefits that reverse in the vast majority of cases within 5 years)?

ed25519FUUU 4y ago
Presumably the diets of lifestyle changes reverse with those lifestyle change reversals.
throwaway1777 4y ago
IF is not that hard to do, just skip breakfast and eat dinner at a reasonable hour.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  That also means skipping morning coffee, which has been really hard for me.
  - sp332 4y ago
    Do you have a source for that? Every source I see with a quick search says that coffee has very few calories and shouldn't break a fast.
    - rolisz 4y ago
      Sure, black coffee is fine, but I hate the taste of coffee, so I drink it with milk and Monin syrup
      - jjeaff 4y ago
        In that case, just take a caffeine supplement that has theine in it. It would be a lot better for you than coffee.
      - sverona 4y ago
        Suggestion: make better coffee.
        rolisz 4y ago
        I've tried V60s, high-end Espressos, still hate the bitter taste of black coffee. Any other suggestions?
        JoyfulTurkey 4y ago
        Maybe cold brew? I felt it was less acidic and bitter when I used to make it. I have a Toddy and with that maker you end up with a concentrate that you dilute with either hot or cold water.
    - lytefm 4y ago
      I can confirm that black coffee usually works just fine when doing intermittent fasting.
  - JoyfulTurkey 4y ago
    I’ve always drank liquids in the AM even when doing IF. Just water or straight black coffee. Or are you taking the coffee with cream and sugar?
  - irrational 4y ago
    I don’t drink coffee, but I do drink a bunch of water every morning. I don’t really think of low calorie drinks as affecting IF.
  - senectus1 4y ago
    drink it black with no sugar. that wont affect your IF process.
- ivanche 4y ago
  For extra benefits, don't eat carbs in the first 4 hours of eating window. Your focus, concentration and general mental sharpness will skyrocket.
riffraff 4y ago
I'm wary of fad diets, but why shouldn't IF be sustainable long term? Many groups (e.g. for religious reasons) do fasting regularly, and have done it for millennia. At worst, IF just limits your food intake, but it does not seem like it would provide you with an unbalanced diet.
- distantaidenn 4y ago
  I've been doing IF for 20 years. I read the science way back when, and it made sense to me -- I never looked back. Early breakfast always made me feel queasy, anyway (since childhood), so it wasn't much of a jump. I typically don't eat until dinner. I'll alter this for special occasions, or if I didn't eat enough the day prior. Sometimes I'll just plain forget to eat until 21:00 or so, if I'm busy on a project. I follow this pattern about 5-6 days a week. As for my blood glucose levels, based on the continuous monitoring devices I've used, it's pretty stable. I may see a slight dip in the afternoon, then returns to baseline and stabilizes. After a meal, it will rise for about 30 minutes (within normal parameters), then back to baseline. IF is anything but a fad diet and shouldn't be lumped in with such. If anything, one could argue that IF is one of (if not) the original eating patterns based on the lifestyles our hunter/gatherer ancestors and modern nomadic cultures. The modern concept of 3 squares a day might in fact be the fad. Food has only been plentiful since the agriculture revolution about 12,000 years ago. Before then, it was feast and famine. For anyone on the fence, I say give it a try (after consulting with your physician). The more studies we are seeing about this pattern, the more benefits we are discovering.
  - probablynish 4y ago
    Can I ask which continuous monitoring device you use? I'm looking for one to see how my blood sugar fluctuates throughout the day. The good ones seem to be behind a prescription wall, so I was considering the freestyle libre.
    - distantaidenn 4y ago
      Freestyle Libre : https://www.freestyle.abbott/us-en/home.html https://www.freestyle.abbott/us-en/home.html They're a bit pricey if you buy them direct (sans insurance). It feels like you have an additional sense when wearing it.
sp332 4y ago
This says the benefits of 3 months of IF lasted at least one year. With further study we could probably find a shorter IF period and/or a longer benefit duration and just alternate on a schedule.
john61 4y ago
I do dinner canceling one or two times a week for more than ten years now. And I am still enjoying it. No reason to drop it.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  I haven't eaten breakfast since I was in the military. I only eat one if someone else is paying for it. Unless I stuff my face late at night, I get 14-15 hour fasts every day regularly.
  - princevegeta89 4y ago
    Great. But also keep in mind that breakfast is your most important meal for the day. You could probably skip lunch instead.
    - synthc 4y ago
      Any references that prove this? I have been skipping breakfast for years, and feel fine. Eating breakfast makes me feel sluggish
      - theshrike79 4y ago
        Just the thought of a breakfast makes my stomach churn. And if I eat something I usually get hungry a lot faster than if I'd just skip the whole breakfast.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - blitzar 4y ago
      > breakfast is your most important meal for the day Sauce please?
      - princevegeta89 4y ago
        Sure https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181126-is-breakfast-good-for-your-health https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181126-is-breakfast-goo... https://share.upmc.com/2017/07/reasons-breakfast-is-important/ https://share.upmc.com/2017/07/reasons-breakfast-is-importan... https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-you-really-need-to-eat-breakfast/ https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-you-really-need-to-eat... https://www.piedmont.org/living-better/why-breakfast-is-the-most-important-meal-of-the-day https://www.piedmont.org/living-better/why-breakfast-is-the-...
lm28469 4y ago
> the benefits are reversed 90% within 5 years because of the un feasibility of keeping it up that long I'm on IF for 10 years, it's not a diet but a lifestyle. This is not a "drink only tea and broth" or "you can only eat raw veggies" type of thing

idealmedtech 4y ago

Type 2 in many ways is a disease that comes from struggling with diet and exercise. There are many medically valid reasons for that to be so, but it still is necessary to try and address them as much as you are able if you're struggling with Type 2. It may save your life.

mrwhisper 4y ago

Do we know how long each fast was and at what cadence? My dad is OMAD and keto (mostly carnivore) and swears by it. He had high blood pressure for years and has been able to rid meds entirely.

mgarfias 4y ago
In for answers to this question too

cbhl 4y ago

Study appears to have been conducted in China. NIH abstracts mention in addition to the intermittent fasting the use of a "chinese medical nutrition therapy" diet. Earlier abstract from Jul 2022 says the treatment group did IF 5 days and then 10 days of habitual eating, repeated for a 90 day (3 month) period. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36192924/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36192924/ (Jul 2022 - 3 mo treatment, 3 mo follow-up) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ (Dec 2022 - 1-year follow up) Presumably we won't know "within 5 years" until four years from now (and that assumes the participants in the original study can still be reached by then).

anikom15 4y ago

I think IF can teach people that they don’t actually need to eat very much, and that they mostly eat out of habit. I have only ever eaten food when I’m actually hungry, ever since I was born, and have always been thin. Some people say I’m too thin. Often eating is a chore for me, and I’ll push myself to do other things until I am absolutely starving. My eating habits have changed with age. When I was young I would have to eat three or four times a day. As I get older I only need one or two meals.

polishdude20 4y ago
As I get older I realize I need to lift weights and try and gain more muscle and strength. Reducing my caloric intake would hinder that.
- probablynish 4y ago
  It seems possible to do intermittent fasting (for example the typical 16 hours fasted / 8 hours eating schedule) and still get enough calories. You just have to fit them into the 8 hours. My own problem is that if I skip any meal I get hungry enough that my brain doesn't work well and I can't sleep. But I'm already as light as I can get without being dangerously underweight, so maybe that's my body sending a valid message.
  - grogers 4y ago
    Regarding hunger, it only takes a week or two of changing your eating pattern to have your brain realize that your old mealtime is no longer mealtime. After that you won't get a spike in hunger from "skipping" what used to be your mealtime, because it isn't any more. But if you are happy then don't change anything (or maybe eat more total?), unless you just want to experiment.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Be careful you don't end up wrecking your joints and/or tendons.

probablynish 4y ago

I wonder how much of the results from this intervention are driven purely by the act of fasting for 16 hours out of every 24, vs the associated acts of consuming fewer calories and altering diets? The abstracts posted below ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36192924/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36192924/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ ) indicate that the participants also had their diets altered (to "a MFH plants and wholegrains diet") and lost weight implying that their caloric intake fell. Is the real effect here that they ate healthier and lost weight, or did the fasting specifically have an effect on top of that? A nice podcast episode on the topic is https://peterattiamd.com/jasonfung/ https://peterattiamd.com/jasonfung/

kcplate 4y ago
> I wonder how much of the results from this intervention are driven purely by the act of fasting for 16 hours out of every 24, vs the associated acts of consuming fewer calories and altering diets? A lot of these types of eating strategies simply create a caloric deficit easily. For instance for me, keto creates satiety feeling with less calories then other diets I have tried. IF and OMAD eating strategies kind of does the same thing in my experience. The fast breaking meal eliminates the hunger and satiety usually sets in pretty quickly with less calories.

331c8c71 4y ago

There are papers reporting that very low calorie diet (VLCD) has similar effects. Not sure whether IF is any special when compared to VLCD rather than the baseline (no intervention).

theshrike79 4y ago
As someone who had tried both, IF is easier to stick to mentally. There's only so much food you can stuff in your face during the eating window - and if you time it right, you'll be asleep for pretty much half the fast time anyway. Last meal around 20:00 in the evening, skip breakfast, lunch at noon. That's a 16 hour fast easily. After you fast for a while (a week or two) your body gets used to it and it gets easier, any feelings of hunger go away pretty fast.
lytefm 4y ago
VLCD is extremely difficult to do. I doubt that many people would be able to stick to it outside of a controlled setting. IF on the other hand doesn't require you to eat less calories than your body requires. Skipping breakfast works pretty effortless on the long term.

romseb 4y ago

Unfortunately, the abstract does not contain any information on the specific window of eating. Can someone with full access shed light on this?

Someone 4y ago

Type 2 diabetes is strongly associated with being overweight, and it it is well-known that weight loss can reverse it, so my first thought was “how did they control for weight loss?”. From what I can find online, I’m. It convinced they did that. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36515429/ says: “The mean body weight of participants in the CMNT group was reduced by 5.93 kg (SD 2.47) compared to 0.27 kg (1.43) in the control group” I also found https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-looking-at-intermittent-fasting-and-type-2-diabetes/ https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-..., which says (cherry-picking a bit rom that page, but IMO, that’s not a problem for this argument): “This is a relatively small study and the main problem is that weight loss was much greater in those allocated to intermittent fasting. This is not surprising but a proper comparison would be with individuals who reduced their food intake uniformly over time to the same degree as those doing intermittent fasting. The bottom line is that if obese/overweight persons with diabetes lose substantial amounts of weight their diabetes is likely to go into remission. This study does not show that intermittent fasting is superior to uniform caloric restriction.“ and “So, this study did not compare two diets with the same energy intake as the intermittent diet was about 75% of energy intake compared to normal intake. Therefore there is no surprise that the intermittent diet group lost weight (almost 6kg on average or about 10% of starting body weight). As one of the best predictors of achieving remission in type 2 diabetes is weight loss, it is impossible to say if it is intermittent fasting which is helping to induce remission as it is most likely to be the result of the weight loss” (It surprised me to read “almost 6kg on average or about 10% of starting body weight”. I know not all Chinese are large, but 60kg and (from the pubmed link “body mass index (BMI) of 19.1 to 30.4”?) Because of that, I doubt the conclusion is correct, and it wasn’t the intermittent fasting but the weight loss that was the main factor. (That page also gives some info about the experiment: “for five days people ate only 840kcal per day and for the following 10 days they ate according to their appetite following the Chinese dietary guidelines for a total of 3 months”)

wink 4y ago
6kg less doesn't sound like enough to provoke such a strong reaction though? I mean, just as a total layman who is regularly gaining and losing about 5 kg, I can't imagine that would be enough to trigger getting or losing the type 2 Diabetes...

deleted 4y ago

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not_your_mentat 4y ago

I'm wary of a small study (36 people over 3 months) drawing massive conclusions ("Intermittent Fasting Completely Reverses Type 2 Diabetes in Study"). Any claim of reversing diabetes is always conditioned (for how long and under what conditions) and headlines seldom if ever capture that nuance. That critique out of the way, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in September of last year. There's definitely genetic predisposition for it on my paternal side, but I have also been eating like a king and dipped even deeper into my indulgences as a primary coping strategy for social distancing associated with COVID. In September, my average blood glucose was 180. Following the advice of a nutritionist (my sister), I switched to a mostly whole food plant based diet with some intermittent fasting (skipping supper, sometimes breakfast). At present, my average blood glucose is 125. I'm also down 25 lbs since September if last year. I'm still taking metformin, which I expect to take until doing so gives me sugar lows. It hasn't been all at once and I'm not terribly strict about it. My meal plan generally looks something like this: Morning: an apple, a pear, a banana, other fruit, vitamins, ~1000ml water (I found that if I have a clear Nalgene water bottle next to me while I work that I just drink water; who knew). Lunch: whole food plant based leftovers (I love to cook and am currently making a lot of Indian food and soups), an apple, some other fruit, maybe going out to lunch with friends and eating whatever the hell I want (whatever the hell I want progressively is becoming fruits and vegetables, which feels weird emotionally). Afternoon: ~1000ml water, fruit. Dinner: fruit, something I or my SO cooks (generally whole food plant based), maybe dining out and eating whatever the hell I want (see above). I don't drink soda and have not since the early 2000's. I really don't drink anything but water, unless it's Thanksgiving, Christmas, or I'm on an airplane. I stopped thinking about Diets and have started thinking about my diet. I see this shift in food intake as a permanent thing, permanent enough that my SO and I are considering moving somewhere closer to year round fresh fruits and vegetables. Resources that have been helpful have been a good diabetes specialist (mine is also diabetic and also familiar with a whole food plant based approach to living with diabetes), a great nutritionist (I'm biased and she's my sister), and the book Mastering Diabetes (it can be a little "scare your grandma" and they're selling something beyond the book, but as I have been led to understand it is a strong representation of the state of our understanding of diabetes and diet). If you decide to try a whole food plant based approach, don't rush it. It can be really hard space mentally and emotionally. I had time where I was literally sobbing on the floor because I didn't know how to feed myself anymore and really didn't want to retread my dad's path. It can be hard at first, but it's yielded real results for me (in my 3 month study) and it's something that continues to get both easier and more enjoyable and which I am planning on doing for the rest of my life. I hope my sampling of 1 is helpful. I watched my dad struggle and slowly die from diabetes complications my whole life, losing toes and a kidney, not sleeping because of severe neuropathy, having dry itchy skin that would bleed when he scratched it and then not heal, and needing insulin injections multiple times a day. I don't wish that on anyone.