5 ms·

Don't they have to get in the air first? And what advanced systems are present in the F-35 which can't be retrofitted into the F16s and F15s.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
JimtheCoder 4y ago
"And what advanced systems are present in the F-35 which can't be retrofitted into the F16s and F15s." Those are both 45+ year old airframes as well. You're going to have to upgrade to something new eventually...
andrewnicolalde 4y ago
Any kind of stealthiness for one. There are versions of the F-15 which attempt to be more stealthy than the base airframe, but it’s a far cry from being as stealthy as any purpose-built aircraft.
JohnBooty 4y ago
And what advanced systems are present in the F-35 which can't be retrofitted into the F16s and F15s. Yikes. 1. Stealth 2. Sensor fusion with other aircraft 3. Carrier landing/launch 4. An airframe that isn't on the verge of forced retirement due to accumulated flight hours and metal fatigue, like many/most of the F16s and F15s The F16 and F15 are arguably more capable in movie-style dogfights. They can pull 9Gs while the F35 can do 7G IIRC with superior thrust to weight. In a guns-only dogfight maybe you want one of those. But that misses the point. Modern air combat is not about movie style dogfights. It's about hitting your enemy with a missile from beyond visual range before he even knows that you or the missile exist. Perhaps even more crucially, it's about surviving enemy ground defenses. Anti-aircraft defenses including man-portable missiles are cheap and getting more deadly by the day. No stealth? You're dead. You're not just dead; you were an easy kill. "Stealth" is not a binary property of course; "stealth" aircraft can be detected with enough luck and effort. But stealth is table stakes for not being easy pickings. You can see this in Ukraine. Neither side has stealth, neither side has established clear air superiority.
- operatingthetan 4y ago
  This is a new thing, not sure if Canada considered it or not: https://www.military.com/equipment/military-aircraft/everything-you-need-know-about-air-forces-new-f-15ex.html https://www.military.com/equipment/military-aircraft/everyth...
  - JohnBooty 4y ago
    It's not stealthy, particularly when loaded with munitions. So it fills a much different role. However, it is a bonkers airborne munitions truck that can carry a loooot of missiles and bombs. A common bit of speculation is that eventually what you could see is the F-15EX used in conjunction with stealthier fighters like the F-35 (and/or drones?) in mixed formations. The F-35s only carry 4 missiles in the internal bays. The F-35s can scout and relay targeting information to the F-15EX, which can then deliver the hurt from a safe distance.
    - lumost 4y ago
      For a crazy comparison, it's worth taking a look at the B-1R concept. It was a b-1 refitted for air to air combat. In a bvr battle of missile trucks, it may be beneficial to have separate platforms optimized for sensing and attack. Maneuverability may not be required if the aircraft can remain high and fast.
      - JohnBooty 4y ago
        Yeah! Exactly. Imagine trying to fight a layered airborne force with airborne refueling, a fleet of aircraft carriers, AWACS, "missile trucks", agile manned stealthy fighters, and drones. Most of this is possible today and the rest is close. The cost is obviously insane, and that's part of the appeal for the US. For the moment they own the skies in a comprehensive way that nobody else can even remotely afford to challenge. Look at the US's dominance in Desert Storm, and consider that the gap has probably widened since then. I'm neither endorsing this nor criticizing it by the way. The US does this while a lot of its citizens don't even have healthcare, for example. The ethical issues are infinite!
justapassenger 4y ago
What advanced systems from PS5 cannot be retrofitted into PS1? But to answer your question - stealth airframe. And it’s an enormous benefit - you can’t shoot what you can’t detect. And if that thing has long range weapon systems, good luck.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

JimtheCoder 4y ago

"And what advanced systems are present in the F-35 which can't be retrofitted into the F16s and F15s." Those are both 45+ year old airframes as well. You're going to have to upgrade to something new eventually...

andrewnicolalde 4y ago

Any kind of stealthiness for one. There are versions of the F-15 which attempt to be more stealthy than the base airframe, but it’s a far cry from being as stealthy as any purpose-built aircraft.

JohnBooty 4y ago

And what advanced systems are present in the F-35 which can't be retrofitted into the F16s and F15s. Yikes. 1. Stealth 2. Sensor fusion with other aircraft 3. Carrier landing/launch 4. An airframe that isn't on the verge of forced retirement due to accumulated flight hours and metal fatigue, like many/most of the F16s and F15s The F16 and F15 are arguably more capable in movie-style dogfights. They can pull 9Gs while the F35 can do 7G IIRC with superior thrust to weight. In a guns-only dogfight maybe you want one of those. But that misses the point. Modern air combat is not about movie style dogfights. It's about hitting your enemy with a missile from beyond visual range before he even knows that you or the missile exist. Perhaps even more crucially, it's about surviving enemy ground defenses. Anti-aircraft defenses including man-portable missiles are cheap and getting more deadly by the day. No stealth? You're dead. You're not just dead; you were an easy kill. "Stealth" is not a binary property of course; "stealth" aircraft can be detected with enough luck and effort. But stealth is table stakes for not being easy pickings. You can see this in Ukraine. Neither side has stealth, neither side has established clear air superiority.

operatingthetan 4y ago
This is a new thing, not sure if Canada considered it or not: https://www.military.com/equipment/military-aircraft/everything-you-need-know-about-air-forces-new-f-15ex.html https://www.military.com/equipment/military-aircraft/everyth...
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  It's not stealthy, particularly when loaded with munitions. So it fills a much different role. However, it is a bonkers airborne munitions truck that can carry a loooot of missiles and bombs. A common bit of speculation is that eventually what you could see is the F-15EX used in conjunction with stealthier fighters like the F-35 (and/or drones?) in mixed formations. The F-35s only carry 4 missiles in the internal bays. The F-35s can scout and relay targeting information to the F-15EX, which can then deliver the hurt from a safe distance.
  - lumost 4y ago
    For a crazy comparison, it's worth taking a look at the B-1R concept. It was a b-1 refitted for air to air combat. In a bvr battle of missile trucks, it may be beneficial to have separate platforms optimized for sensing and attack. Maneuverability may not be required if the aircraft can remain high and fast.
    - JohnBooty 4y ago
      Yeah! Exactly. Imagine trying to fight a layered airborne force with airborne refueling, a fleet of aircraft carriers, AWACS, "missile trucks", agile manned stealthy fighters, and drones. Most of this is possible today and the rest is close. The cost is obviously insane, and that's part of the appeal for the US. For the moment they own the skies in a comprehensive way that nobody else can even remotely afford to challenge. Look at the US's dominance in Desert Storm, and consider that the gap has probably widened since then. I'm neither endorsing this nor criticizing it by the way. The US does this while a lot of its citizens don't even have healthcare, for example. The ethical issues are infinite!

justapassenger 4y ago

What advanced systems from PS5 cannot be retrofitted into PS1? But to answer your question - stealth airframe. And it’s an enormous benefit - you can’t shoot what you can’t detect. And if that thing has long range weapon systems, good luck.