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Whatever your politics I think we can (mostly) all agree that widespread availability of location data from mobile devices is a population scale security threat

Whatever your politics I think we can (mostly) all agree that widespread availability of location data from mobile devices is a population scale security threat. Today it may be someone you don’t care for. Tomorrow it might be you. It is always in someone’s interest to demonize whichever groups / tribe(s) we belong to.

AlexTWithBeard 4y ago
Sometimes I feel like we're trying to stop the bulldozer by all this privacy regulations and rules. It can be slowed down, but cannot be stopped. Would a complete openness be an alternative? Everybody knows everything about everyone? You wanna know what did I watch on pornhub yesterday? Be my guest, but I know that you were looking at this information. And you know that I know it. Perfect society, innit?
- RangerScience 4y ago
  I don't know :/ Two pieces of content come to mind, tho: > We were born on this [slippery slope], and we will die on this slope. It spreads infinitely in all directions, and where we choose to scramble to on its face is the task of our lives SFP on "Slippery Slope" - https://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-6/page-125-2/ https://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-6/page-125-2/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomon_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomon_(novel) The setting is one like you describe. It's... well, it's such an absolutely incredible story that it's almost impossible to describe succinctly and accurately. I'd say one of the themes of the story is "what would it be like to live in a place like this, if it actually worked and worked well?". That isn't to say it's utopian, or that the problems and issues of the system don't exist or aren't talked about, but neither would I say it's about those issues.
- lrvick 4y ago
  Everyone opted into tracking, and we can opt out again too. I buy things with cash, and cash purchased prepaid debit gift cards. I do not own a cell phone. Anyone who wants to track me will have to pay someone to actually follow me around which would cost more than anyone stands to make from the data they would obtain.
  - inetknght 4y ago
    > Everyone opted into tracking No, everyone opted in to using services. Tracking was buried in legalese in an unenforceable unilateral "contract". > and we can opt out again too Too little, too late, and unenforceable. You might opt-out of the ways you know are being tracked but there's hundreds of ways that you can be tracked without even knowing about it. > Anyone who wants to track me will have to pay someone to actually follow me around which would cost more than anyone stands to make from the data they would obtain. I'm not sure you understand just how much profit there is in controlling entire populations by monitoring and predicting what they do.
    - lrvick 4y ago
      I am well aware of the profit incentives for my data, and selling manipulation as a service. It is why I opt out in every instance I have a choice. I use Whonix for most personal browsing, I use 0 GAFAM services or products by surveillance capitalism companies, I do not own a smartphone, I randomize my wifi MAC addresses, and the majority of my transactions are in cash or anonymized bitcoin. License plate plate cameras, facial/gait recognition systems, and airline tickets are about the only automated ways left to track me that I am aware of.
  - neodymiumphish 4y ago
    Except that the data they can review against everyone using prepaid cards can be consolidated into a database and reviewed. If 90% of these cards are used the same way, it's fair enough to assume you're using it in one of those ways. If they're wrong, meh, who cares?
    - lrvick 4y ago
      I only use prepaid cards on rare occasion when I encounter a bar or a parking meter that does not take cash. Regardless my name is not associated with any of those transactions. In general cash raises the least eyebrows and is reasonably anonymous.
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
- readthenotes1 4y ago
  There's an old sci-fi story that touched on that. People could buy short video segments of public areas displayed at random and the game was to randomly find pictures of themselves. Of course, information is power, so that's why the police turn off their body cams....
hotpotamus 4y ago
What threats do you imagine this poses? I'm not particularly concerned with immigration legal or otherwise, but a census of who lives in the US and whereabouts they are is pretty fundamental to having a functioning government. The creators of the US seemed to think so as it's one of the functions they outlined in the constitution. What's interesting is that the article doesn't know how the government obtained the data in question. I don't know either, but I wonder, did they buy it from a private broker like anyone else could?
- chitowneats 4y ago
  A census "By whom?", "By what means?", and "For what?", all seem relevant concerns in a general sense. No specific accusation necessary.
- _r4nc 4y ago
  Having a census of residents who pay taxes and vote locally, which is required for a functional government, is quite different from real-time (or even delayed) location data from personal devices.
  - ecommerceguy 4y ago
    What if the government doesn't want to be functional? https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/05/2020-census-undercount-overcount-rates-by-state.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/05/2020-census-u...
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  the article doesn't know how the government obtained the data in question The Heritage Foundation is not an arm of the government, and I'm not sure why you though the government was involved in the collection of this data. The original report (linked within TFA) doesn't specify its methodology in any meaningful way, but it's well known that data brokers resell anonymized device location data and it seems rational to presume that it was purchased commercially.
  - 4y ago

AlexTWithBeard 4y ago

Sometimes I feel like we're trying to stop the bulldozer by all this privacy regulations and rules. It can be slowed down, but cannot be stopped. Would a complete openness be an alternative? Everybody knows everything about everyone? You wanna know what did I watch on pornhub yesterday? Be my guest, but I know that you were looking at this information. And you know that I know it. Perfect society, innit?

RangerScience 4y ago
I don't know :/ Two pieces of content come to mind, tho: > We were born on this [slippery slope], and we will die on this slope. It spreads infinitely in all directions, and where we choose to scramble to on its face is the task of our lives SFP on "Slippery Slope" - https://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-6/page-125-2/ https://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-6/page-125-2/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomon_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomon_(novel) The setting is one like you describe. It's... well, it's such an absolutely incredible story that it's almost impossible to describe succinctly and accurately. I'd say one of the themes of the story is "what would it be like to live in a place like this, if it actually worked and worked well?". That isn't to say it's utopian, or that the problems and issues of the system don't exist or aren't talked about, but neither would I say it's about those issues.
lrvick 4y ago
Everyone opted into tracking, and we can opt out again too. I buy things with cash, and cash purchased prepaid debit gift cards. I do not own a cell phone. Anyone who wants to track me will have to pay someone to actually follow me around which would cost more than anyone stands to make from the data they would obtain.
- inetknght 4y ago
  > Everyone opted into tracking No, everyone opted in to using services. Tracking was buried in legalese in an unenforceable unilateral "contract". > and we can opt out again too Too little, too late, and unenforceable. You might opt-out of the ways you know are being tracked but there's hundreds of ways that you can be tracked without even knowing about it. > Anyone who wants to track me will have to pay someone to actually follow me around which would cost more than anyone stands to make from the data they would obtain. I'm not sure you understand just how much profit there is in controlling entire populations by monitoring and predicting what they do.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    I am well aware of the profit incentives for my data, and selling manipulation as a service. It is why I opt out in every instance I have a choice. I use Whonix for most personal browsing, I use 0 GAFAM services or products by surveillance capitalism companies, I do not own a smartphone, I randomize my wifi MAC addresses, and the majority of my transactions are in cash or anonymized bitcoin. License plate plate cameras, facial/gait recognition systems, and airline tickets are about the only automated ways left to track me that I am aware of.
- neodymiumphish 4y ago
  Except that the data they can review against everyone using prepaid cards can be consolidated into a database and reviewed. If 90% of these cards are used the same way, it's fair enough to assume you're using it in one of those ways. If they're wrong, meh, who cares?
  - lrvick 4y ago
    I only use prepaid cards on rare occasion when I encounter a bar or a parking meter that does not take cash. Regardless my name is not associated with any of those transactions. In general cash raises the least eyebrows and is reasonably anonymous.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
readthenotes1 4y ago
There's an old sci-fi story that touched on that. People could buy short video segments of public areas displayed at random and the game was to randomly find pictures of themselves. Of course, information is power, so that's why the police turn off their body cams....

hotpotamus 4y ago

What threats do you imagine this poses? I'm not particularly concerned with immigration legal or otherwise, but a census of who lives in the US and whereabouts they are is pretty fundamental to having a functioning government. The creators of the US seemed to think so as it's one of the functions they outlined in the constitution. What's interesting is that the article doesn't know how the government obtained the data in question. I don't know either, but I wonder, did they buy it from a private broker like anyone else could?

chitowneats 4y ago
A census "By whom?", "By what means?", and "For what?", all seem relevant concerns in a general sense. No specific accusation necessary.
_r4nc 4y ago
Having a census of residents who pay taxes and vote locally, which is required for a functional government, is quite different from real-time (or even delayed) location data from personal devices.
- ecommerceguy 4y ago
  What if the government doesn't want to be functional? https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/05/2020-census-undercount-overcount-rates-by-state.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/05/2020-census-u...
anigbrowl 4y ago
the article doesn't know how the government obtained the data in question The Heritage Foundation is not an arm of the government, and I'm not sure why you though the government was involved in the collection of this data. The original report (linked within TFA) doesn't specify its methodology in any meaningful way, but it's well known that data brokers resell anonymized device location data and it seems rational to presume that it was purchased commercially.
- 4y ago