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The risk of them not being able to pay you back and thus destroying the friendship is so high that I wouldn’t recommend this unless you are ok with losing that

The risk of them not being able to pay you back and thus destroying the friendship is so high that I wouldn’t recommend this unless you are ok with losing that person as a friend OR you just give them the money without expectation of it being paid back.

t0suj4 4y ago
Not expecting anything in return has definitely made me happier. It's on the borrower to worry about paying me back. Me, I don't care.
- greedo 4y ago
  I've found that this applies to much more than just money.
- bungeonsBaggins 4y ago
  How does this work in practice, though? I don't know how this would be possible at all. I have loaned money to family members in the past, and been paid back when they were back on their feet. But if a friend or family member borrowed money and never paid it back, even after they were over their financial difficulties, and never mentioned it or made any effort to repay the loan, it would certainly affect my opinion of them; at the very least, I'd expect them to offer some explanation as to why they weren't able or willing to pay me back as we agreed. So do you actually mean this, or are you just signaling how kind you are?
  - t0suj4 4y ago
    Asking money back did influence my opinion and that would ruin the relationship over time. That's why I've stopped asking for money and went even further and stopped expecting anything back. I've picked that up from friends I made in Taiwan. It was mostly paying each other's lunch but there's no reason why it shouldn't work in other areas of life.
  - checkyoursudo 4y ago
    Why would I expect a friend whom I value to repay me? I have given, both in gifts and loans both implicit and explicit, much of myself, my time, my money, my worldly possessions over the years. If I held non-repayment against them, I think that would say more about me than about my friend. A non-friend? Sure, that might be different. Anyone can be forgiven of anything, if you are so inclined. No "signalling" required.
jeffrallen 4y ago
It is possible to give gifts to friends and not expect to be repaid. Life is not zero sum. But knowing yourself enough to know you can trust yourself to do this is not easy.
racl101 4y ago
Yeah, I couldn't loan that much. I'd gift a friend at most $ 2K and the expectation that I won't see it will ease my mind more than the expectation that they'd pay back $7K.
themitigating 4y ago
If a friend can't pay you back for legitimate reasons, which I admit are subjective, you shouldn't let it affect your friendship. If it does it says more about you than the friend
- luxuryballs 4y ago
  you’d be surprised, better just to give them the money and if they pay you back it’s just a bonus
- SkyBelow 4y ago
  It is also possible that the inability to pay back would negative effect the friend's ability to maintain the friendship. Between feeling they let the loaner down, or feeling guilty they couldn't repay it. Even if the loaner set no expectations, it could create enough negativity to sour the friendship. This doesn't have to be logical or rational, it could be an entirely irrational emotional reaction.
sillysaurusx 4y ago
If $7k destroys a friendship, it's not really that close of a friendship. Sure, there should be some consequences for not paying it back, but incessant mockery and refusal to pay for McDonald's is probably a fair exchange. "Give people lots of leeway, but only once" has worked out well so far. People can't fool you into making a big mistake twice, and once is just the cost of doing business^W^Wfriendship. On the other hand, finding friends past age 30 is hard enough that paying random devs random sums of money isn't that bad of a deal.
- falcolas 4y ago
  $7k is an absurd amount of money for 99.9% of the US (Recall the statistics on who has at least 3 months of income saved up? This is a similar amount of cash to have available). I've seen good friendships lost over a lot less money than that. I agree with the parent - don't give it with the expectation of receiving it back. Save everyone the heartache.
  - notyourwork 4y ago
    The financial disconnect in tech versus the rest of society is crazy. Casually handing out $7k is a wild statement for most of the world.
    - whatshisface 4y ago
      But that's irrelevant, it was not a big loan for the OP.
      - falcolas 4y ago
        It was for the recipient. And the recipient is the one who'll be feeling the pinch (stress, anger, etc) of paying it back. $7,000 / 24 = $300 (roughly an extra car payment)
        whatshisface 4y ago
shahar2k 4y ago
I've had favorable circumstances (parents that did ok, REALLY cheap rent in an expensive city, a regular job) and I've been able to have the same policy, every time my attitude is I will loan money that I could without being too broken up about it set on fire then and there and never with any explicit expectation of good use. if it's returned (some have, some havent been able to) it's a bonus. now this is a SMALL amount compared to most people but I have friends who have had a really rough time financially.
jknz 4y ago
The GP is unclear as to whether the loan happened before or after the friend obtained a job offer. Loaning moving expenses money to someone who just got a high-paying job offer and needs the moving money to start the job does not sound that risky.
- alexchamberlain 4y ago
  Agreed, though you have to wonder why the company involved couldn't do this more formally?
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    It is worth wondering about that. My first job out of college offered an interest-free loan (paid back by paycheck deductions over 2 years) for moving expenses.
rib3ye 4y ago
That's the misunderstanding that sours so many relationships. You have to go into the "loan" with the mindset that you will work to maintain the friendship if it doesn't work out. In short, it's a grant, not a loan. You will become this person's benefactor, and you may learn a lot about how their mind/life works. Perhaps more than you want.
kkielhofner 4y ago
When "loaning" money to family and friends as the "lender" assuming it's a gift from the get-go is crucial. Or you just mutually agree it's a gift and move on. 1) If you are going to be financially impacted in any way by not having the loan repaid you should't "loan" (gift) it. Like gambling don't do it if you can't afford to lose it. 2) Assuming #1, the overall psychological stress and potential impact on the relationship just isn't worth it. As the "lender" you should feel good about helping someone while learning something about them in the process. Personally, in having this outlook with family and friends they essentially get one shot. If all parties agree it's a loan and the debtor doesn't pay back the funds I move on without impact to the friendship but mentally they have a "strike" in my mind that essentially says "they can still be a good person and friend, but money can never enter the relationship again". I feel like it's a decent balance.
- readthenotes1 4y ago
  That was the advice I received many years ago and it has worked extremely well. An additional mechanic is that you tell them that you are not going to remind them to pay you back, that it is not your job to nag them.
- wheels 4y ago
  A modification I add is to ask them to do it for someone else once they're on their feet again. That's a pretty easy thing to agree to, and the anonymity of it allows the other person to make good on it if they feel that's important without putting any pressure on the friendship.
gsatic 4y ago
If I know they are honest I don't worry about it. Have lent to many friends/family members over the years telling them to pay me back whatever/whenever they can, however they want. Some have taken decades. No one has not paid back. Few have needed a nudge, which I only give after they have climbed out of whatever hole. Honest people will always make an effort to repay their debts. The rest make lousy friends anyway.

t0suj4 4y ago

Not expecting anything in return has definitely made me happier. It's on the borrower to worry about paying me back. Me, I don't care.

greedo 4y ago
I've found that this applies to much more than just money.
bungeonsBaggins 4y ago
How does this work in practice, though? I don't know how this would be possible at all. I have loaned money to family members in the past, and been paid back when they were back on their feet. But if a friend or family member borrowed money and never paid it back, even after they were over their financial difficulties, and never mentioned it or made any effort to repay the loan, it would certainly affect my opinion of them; at the very least, I'd expect them to offer some explanation as to why they weren't able or willing to pay me back as we agreed. So do you actually mean this, or are you just signaling how kind you are?
- t0suj4 4y ago
  Asking money back did influence my opinion and that would ruin the relationship over time. That's why I've stopped asking for money and went even further and stopped expecting anything back. I've picked that up from friends I made in Taiwan. It was mostly paying each other's lunch but there's no reason why it shouldn't work in other areas of life.
- checkyoursudo 4y ago
  Why would I expect a friend whom I value to repay me? I have given, both in gifts and loans both implicit and explicit, much of myself, my time, my money, my worldly possessions over the years. If I held non-repayment against them, I think that would say more about me than about my friend. A non-friend? Sure, that might be different. Anyone can be forgiven of anything, if you are so inclined. No "signalling" required.

jeffrallen 4y ago

It is possible to give gifts to friends and not expect to be repaid. Life is not zero sum. But knowing yourself enough to know you can trust yourself to do this is not easy.

racl101 4y ago

Yeah, I couldn't loan that much. I'd gift a friend at most $ 2K and the expectation that I won't see it will ease my mind more than the expectation that they'd pay back $7K.

themitigating 4y ago

If a friend can't pay you back for legitimate reasons, which I admit are subjective, you shouldn't let it affect your friendship. If it does it says more about you than the friend

luxuryballs 4y ago
you’d be surprised, better just to give them the money and if they pay you back it’s just a bonus
SkyBelow 4y ago
It is also possible that the inability to pay back would negative effect the friend's ability to maintain the friendship. Between feeling they let the loaner down, or feeling guilty they couldn't repay it. Even if the loaner set no expectations, it could create enough negativity to sour the friendship. This doesn't have to be logical or rational, it could be an entirely irrational emotional reaction.

sillysaurusx 4y ago

If $7k destroys a friendship, it's not really that close of a friendship. Sure, there should be some consequences for not paying it back, but incessant mockery and refusal to pay for McDonald's is probably a fair exchange. "Give people lots of leeway, but only once" has worked out well so far. People can't fool you into making a big mistake twice, and once is just the cost of doing business^W^Wfriendship. On the other hand, finding friends past age 30 is hard enough that paying random devs random sums of money isn't that bad of a deal.

falcolas 4y ago
$7k is an absurd amount of money for 99.9% of the US (Recall the statistics on who has at least 3 months of income saved up? This is a similar amount of cash to have available). I've seen good friendships lost over a lot less money than that. I agree with the parent - don't give it with the expectation of receiving it back. Save everyone the heartache.
- notyourwork 4y ago
  The financial disconnect in tech versus the rest of society is crazy. Casually handing out $7k is a wild statement for most of the world.
  - whatshisface 4y ago
    But that's irrelevant, it was not a big loan for the OP.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      It was for the recipient. And the recipient is the one who'll be feeling the pinch (stress, anger, etc) of paying it back. $7,000 / 24 = $300 (roughly an extra car payment)
      - whatshisface 4y ago

shahar2k 4y ago

I've had favorable circumstances (parents that did ok, REALLY cheap rent in an expensive city, a regular job) and I've been able to have the same policy, every time my attitude is I will loan money that I could without being too broken up about it set on fire then and there and never with any explicit expectation of good use. if it's returned (some have, some havent been able to) it's a bonus. now this is a SMALL amount compared to most people but I have friends who have had a really rough time financially.

jknz 4y ago

The GP is unclear as to whether the loan happened before or after the friend obtained a job offer. Loaning moving expenses money to someone who just got a high-paying job offer and needs the moving money to start the job does not sound that risky.

alexchamberlain 4y ago
Agreed, though you have to wonder why the company involved couldn't do this more formally?
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  It is worth wondering about that. My first job out of college offered an interest-free loan (paid back by paycheck deductions over 2 years) for moving expenses.

rib3ye 4y ago

That's the misunderstanding that sours so many relationships. You have to go into the "loan" with the mindset that you will work to maintain the friendship if it doesn't work out. In short, it's a grant, not a loan. You will become this person's benefactor, and you may learn a lot about how their mind/life works. Perhaps more than you want.

kkielhofner 4y ago

When "loaning" money to family and friends as the "lender" assuming it's a gift from the get-go is crucial. Or you just mutually agree it's a gift and move on. 1) If you are going to be financially impacted in any way by not having the loan repaid you should't "loan" (gift) it. Like gambling don't do it if you can't afford to lose it. 2) Assuming #1, the overall psychological stress and potential impact on the relationship just isn't worth it. As the "lender" you should feel good about helping someone while learning something about them in the process. Personally, in having this outlook with family and friends they essentially get one shot. If all parties agree it's a loan and the debtor doesn't pay back the funds I move on without impact to the friendship but mentally they have a "strike" in my mind that essentially says "they can still be a good person and friend, but money can never enter the relationship again". I feel like it's a decent balance.

readthenotes1 4y ago
That was the advice I received many years ago and it has worked extremely well. An additional mechanic is that you tell them that you are not going to remind them to pay you back, that it is not your job to nag them.
wheels 4y ago
A modification I add is to ask them to do it for someone else once they're on their feet again. That's a pretty easy thing to agree to, and the anonymity of it allows the other person to make good on it if they feel that's important without putting any pressure on the friendship.

gsatic 4y ago

If I know they are honest I don't worry about it. Have lent to many friends/family members over the years telling them to pay me back whatever/whenever they can, however they want. Some have taken decades. No one has not paid back. Few have needed a nudge, which I only give after they have climbed out of whatever hole. Honest people will always make an effort to repay their debts. The rest make lousy friends anyway.