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I loan money to people and never expect to be repaid. If someone asks for $2k I give them $5k. $400 give them $1k. Sometimes I get paid back. Usually not. It’s

I loan money to people and never expect to be repaid. If someone asks for $2k I give them $5k. $400 give them $1k. Sometimes I get paid back. Usually not. It’s because people are aware I have money so various people ask. The goal isn’t to get paid back. Often these acquaintances cut off all contact. The goal is to never be asked for money again and slowly bled out by frequent sob stories. If they know they are already into me for more than they thought they would get, they won’t come back, and I don’t look like a jerk.

ARandomerDude 4y ago
Same. "Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed." – Proverbs 19:17
inwit 4y ago
[flagged]
zahrc 4y ago
That is so surreal to me. I had to loan money from friends for real emergencies and always made sure they get paid - often more than they gave. How can one not be guilt-ridden until their deathbed?
- serioussecurity 4y ago
  Heavy drinking. Usually they're choosing between a set of bad options.
- danuker 4y ago
  There exist sociopaths and utility monsters.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Or, at the most charitable, people in really bad places (either by choices or bad luck)... and are doing what they need to get by. And honestly, habitually soliciting money from friends shares a lot of similarities with using venture capital -- the reasoning that it's better to explode with someone else's money than your own.
    - danuker 4y ago
      To be fair, the stock market has been invented to spread risk. Better to own 10% of 10 boat expeditions than only one whole boat.
- johnchristopher 4y ago
  > How can one not be guilt-ridden until their deathbed? Well, some most likely are.
- SuoDuanDao 4y ago
  The majority of requests for money come from a minority of people with sad stories. You are clearly a member of the majority.
- okasaki 4y ago
  If you're struggling, and get $1000 from someone who made $100M on crypto, would you be in a hurry to pay them back, or even care at all?
  - roflyear 4y ago
    I'd honestly hope that person wouldn't make it seem like it is a loan. I'd hope they just said "hey, here's money." Seems like a major jerk move to structure the "loan" in a way where you remove these people from your life.
    - Consultant32452 4y ago
      It's an efficient and polite way of determining if your "loan" actually helps them, or they are going to be a bottomless pit of misery and $ requests. If the loan helps them, they will be able to pay it back and all will be well. If it doesn't help them, then there's likely no value in giving them more money. If you want be charitable, there's certainly more efficient ways than giving free money to random people who ask you.
      - roflyear 4y ago
        It's super inefficient, and it's absolutely not polite.
        Consultant32452 4y ago
        You loan someone money not expecting them to pay it back, you never bring it up or bother them, they decide to leave your life forever. You are the bad guy. Only on the internet.
        roflyear 4y ago
        No... if you have some messed up system that involved that process to filter people from your life, you're the bad guy, yeah. Not just on the internet, either.
- SuoDuanDao 4y ago
  The majority of requests for money come from a minority of people with sad stories. You are clearly a member of the majority of people with sad stories. I think the minority would call you a victim of 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome'.
- Juliate 4y ago
  It's peculiar. Some people sometimes kind of resent those that saw their weakness, responded to it and helped them. Misplaced pride? Or lack of self-awareness and acceptation of their shortcomings? Guilt that builds upon itself (where just talking about it first could ... just clear things up)? Or they don't know/understand/weren't explained how to repay it (even if that's as simple as just paying back, or only saying "thanks"). Social rituals definitely help here.
mikrl 4y ago
Would telling them to go fuck themselves not be cheaper and easier? Edit: I don’t have fuck you money, so I am actually ignorant of the dynamic you’re describing. I’d rather be known as an asshole with backbone than a rich sap though. One of those looks more like a mark than the other.
- postalrat 4y ago
  Do you often consider friends and family as rich saps or marks?
  - mikrl 4y ago
    No, for those people who would “ride for me” and vice versa I have loyalty and don’t mind helping them with money, but I’d expect to stay involved in their lives. If they scuttle off, then they weren’t real at all, and I got played. I guess this supports OPs point, so I kinda get it. However this group of people is not very large, most people I know aren’t getting money willy-nilly.
  - winphone1974 4y ago
    You shouldn't loan money to those people though, just give it without expectation of repayment.
    - strken 4y ago
      Why not? I've borrowed thousands of dollars from family at times, lent thousands of dollars to them at others, and we've always repaid each other eventually. It's normal to forgive a loan to family if circumstances change, or to give money no-strings-attached if they need it, but it's equally normal to loan money to help with cash flow problems and then expect repayment eventually.
      - mikrl 4y ago
        >I've borrowed thousands of dollars from family at times Is this common? Such a thing is unthinkable to me, and even friends from more businesslike families than mine have expressed major shame to me that they had to get a couple grand from their dad to cover closing costs (paid back within weeks)
Sakos 4y ago
Same here. If I'm able, I'll loan whatever amount necessary. Some people pay it back, some don't. I never tell them they have to and I never expect them to. In most cases it's been worth it, because 1) they know they can count on me when they're having trouble (and that's important to me) and 2) I've found they'll help me in whatever they can if I do need help. I've also asked friends for money and I've been incredibly grateful to have people who have had my back in that way. There's a sense of security there that's invaluable. Some people are just perpetually bad with money and always come back for more, and that's okay too. As long as I can afford it, I don't mind helping somebody out of a tough spot, even if it's semi-regularly. I wonder if Carmack ever regrets lending money to somebody.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  I don't remember where I read this, but a good compromise strategy for lending money you don't think you're getting back might be this: 1. Assume it's never getting paid back and only lend out money you're willing to lose. 2. Tell them if you get paid back in full, then later, they can ask for another loan. 3. If you don't get paid back, then consider it a gift, but no more loans to that person. This way, you can continue helping people who are down on their luck but responsible about paying back, and you avoid being drained by deadbeats.
jaypeg25 4y ago
Can I have $2k
- fragmede 4y ago
  Stay classy HN
repomies69 4y ago
But do you give the loans out only in monero
bena 4y ago
What happens to with the people who do come back? Let's say you loan me $5k and I come back and ask for another $2k, what's your response?
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 4y ago
Instead of rewarding the antisocial behavior and therefore causing it to happen more frequently, albeit to other people, I would recommend one of these: - "I'm sorry but I've lost my job. I cannot afford this." - "I'm sorry but no means no." - If they insist: "Which part of the two letters in 'No' do you not understand?" You aren't the jerk. Someone who doesn't accept "no" is the jerk. There's places to go to to lend money, they're called banks. If you're not a bank it's not your job.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  Nothing is your job except your job, but how impoverished would your life, family and your community be if everyone stuck to strictly that? You might be right on the specifics in this case, I'll abstain from making judgement. But as a guideline, as a framework, "it's not your job" is monstrously insufficient.
  - RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 4y ago
    We're talking primarily about people who don't pay their debts here. There's no loss to my life if these people remove themselves from it. They're thieves in disguise, nothing more. No value is lost if they leave. And in fact, because money is stored time, my life becomes MORE if they leave, because I lose less of the time of my life to them.
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      grim way to think of people but ok have fun
      - RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 4y ago
        It's the view of someone who has lost over $10k to "I'll pay it back!!!" people - they haven't payed back in 10 years now. And they left behind truckloads of trash. How much have you lost to those? I would speculate once you get to a sum this significant your perspective would change ;)
gernb 4y ago
It's very generous of you. I'd like to point out my experience of taking the loan and never repaying it. I felt guilty for decades and more distant from the loaner. They never brought it up but my guilty mind did. So I'm not 100% sure it was a net positive for our relationship. If I was to do loan money and they didn't pay back in some reasonable amount of time I think I'd tell them explicitly it was a gift. Though I'm not sure that would fix things in the guilty person's mind (yea, I get I'm projecting my feeling on guilt on them. They might not feel any guilt at all)
- cypress66 4y ago
  Why didn't you repay them?
  - gernb 4y ago
    never felt in a position to repay while they were alive.
- ars 4y ago
  It's not too late to repay them. You'll feel better, and so will they. Adjust for inflation if it's really been decades.
  - gernb 4y ago
    they are no longer alive.
    - ars 4y ago
      Then pay their inheritors. Or use the money to loan to someone else who is in the same financial position you were in.
    - glonq 4y ago
      repay their descendants?
greenthrow 4y ago
That is not how the psychology of that interaction would work. If someone doesn't want more than what they asked you for they wouldn't accept it. If they did want more then they aren't going to stop asking because you gave them extra. This is an obvious fabrication by someone with little to no actual life experience.
fdye 4y ago
Same. Several years ago I had an ex-GF of sorts reach out to me in SF. She was passing through and wanted to say hi, etc. I had a couple hours before my shift at a bar I worked at so I swung by where she was, bought her a drink, etc. Immediately could tell she was in a bad place, looked like her occasional drug use had become a permanent, more hard kind. About halfway through the drink was a clumsy come on and a push for some cash, she was out of gas, couldn't get home, whatever. I ended up giving her like $40, a big hug, said goodbye. The whole time she is swearing up and down she will be back next week, will pay me back, etc. I got to work and told a coworker what had happened. She thought I was crazy and was laughing cause I had been conned by an ex. I then explained if I never saw my $40 again it was money well spent. One less person in my life bringing with it their chaos, and our history had made it hard to totally write off. Sure enough, never heard from her again...
- asveikau 4y ago
  > She thought I was crazy and was laughing cause I had been conned by an ex. I then explained if I never saw my $40 again it was money well spent. One less person in my life bringing with it their chaos I was surprised by some of this, especially this last part. Firstly, $40 is not a lot of money. Hardly a "big con". Second, I think the "money well spent" part is that you helped her in some small amount, when it was obvious she was suffering, and you didn't expect anything in return. I think if she had come back expecting continued/sustained support, then you'd be right to pull away. But that sounds like the story of somebody who struggled in that moment and you gave some small gesture of support. I think it's good. Hardly an "investment to get her to leave you alone". That sounds too cynical and harsh.
  - simplotek 4y ago
    > Second, I think the "money well spent" part is that you helped her in some small amount, when it was obvious she was suffering, and you didn't expect anything in return. It seems you have been lucky enough to be living a sheltered life, without any acquaintance having tried to chat you up to their advantage. Unfortunately there are plenty of people in the real world who are either takers or outright set to exploit you. Not many, but enough to have people learn the wisdom of saying "no" to sob stories. I once came across a guy who apparently lived close to me who was asking for money for a taxi ride because he was out of gas and had to go to the hospital to check up on his kid who had an emergency and blablabla. I gave the guy 10€ and wished him well. Fast forward a couple of weeks and I stumble upon the same guy right on the same spot. He clearly didn't recognize me as he asked me again for money for a taxi ride because he ran out of gas and his kid was just admitted to the hospital and blablabla. I asked him if he didn't asked for that same request a few weeks ago, to which he just stood there looking at me without saying a word, and after a couple of seconds he turned back and proceeded to walk away and never be seen again. In the pre mass online shopping days I also had a close friend who just moved to another city. Our friend group had thrown him a big farewell party and everyone promised to keep in touch and visit all the time and all those things. After a few days that friend reached out to us saying he now lived right next to a consumer electronics megashop, and if any of us wanted anything shipped then we could simply send him the cash and he would buy the stuff we needed. A couple of guys from the friend group took him on his offer and sent him cash transfers, and that friend proceeded to ghost everyone. Sadly I have other personal anecdotes, some of which real sob stories. It really depends on what you mean by helping people with a small amount. Those who profit from your actions do benefit from the money they get from you even if it's under false pretenses. Robbers who steal stuff from people around them are also helped by getting their hands on il gotten gains.
0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
The Bronx Tale strategy: https://youtu.be/78-4RobJQ0Y https://youtu.be/78-4RobJQ0Y
- bluedino 4y ago
  On the other hand, now everyone thinks you're an easy target to borrow money from, and they won't have to pay you back.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    How many randoms do you envision coming up to them to ask for money?
    - bluedino 4y ago
      People at work, the gym, bar, wherever you go. We had a guy at the racquetball club move away, and then about 10 people all mentioned how he owed them $20...
      - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
        But that’s the reverse relationship? One guy asking several people for money. Additionally, I think most people who borrow or lend money do not make a habit of discussing it.
        bluedino 4y ago
        In the movie mention in the original post, the character looks up to a mobster. A mob guy would typically do loan sharking, so people would go to them for a loan. If you're going to be a loan shark you can't have people thinking they won't have to pay you back. You have to break their kneecaps.
wkat4242 4y ago
Why would you pay so much just for them not to annoy you? That seems a very high price for some peace and quiet. I would just cut off contact with those people. I don't really get this much because I'm not rich, but if people ask me for loans just to get money out of me I will be the one breaking off contact. On the other hand I have a friend of mine who has loaned money and never paid me back, but she is always in a financial hard spot and she is extremely generous to the community she drives. I never really expected to be paid back for that either but in this case I just wanted to help someone who cares more about others than herself.
- smt88 4y ago
  Yeah, this is incredibly bizarre, to the point of being hard to believe
- fragmede 4y ago
  Guessing from the username Monero-xmr, they accidentally found themselves in the $100-millionaire bracket. More money than a person could spend in a lifetime. What do you do with that kind of wealth?
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    Fair enough, I suppose it really changes your view on money (though I notice that super rich people I know are actually less generous in general). For me $1k would really be a lot especially just for someone to shut up.
    - fragmede 4y ago
      What is a dollar worth to you? Stupid question, right? A dollar is a dollar. How about a penny? Would you bother to pick up a penny? How about a million pennies? If you're making $10 million/yr, $1k to get someone to buzz off is cheap. The inequalities of capitalism are gross, but while we're here, that's the way the world works.
- deebosong 4y ago
  I'm with you on this one. Sure, money or anything can be used as a test to determine someone's character. But you can do so without putting money on the line and save yourself some headache. One way to determine someone's character is to spend time with them, listen to what they say about themselves and others, and whether or not their claims about themselves line up with their actions across time. Maybe money is "cheaper" and "faster" than this route, but... Guess that's just been my go-to method to determine whether or not someone has integrity, is trustworthy, and has a sense of responsibility, parity, and respect for self and others. Giving money without expecting it in return, or even being clear about expecting to be paid back, is more about having gauged people's characters & motivations, even when I get it wrong or things don't pan out as agreed-upon.
jamra 4y ago
This reminds me of the one lady from my previous job that lost her daughter. We held a fundraiser at work. She made a lot of money out of it. Then she lost her niece. It was so sad to have misery strike twice. Until she lost another niece. Then we checked up on it. Nobody had died.
- deleted 4y ago
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Karawebnetwork 4y ago
Could it be that by loaning more money than they expected, they spent that money and then entered into a negative cycle where they were never able to gather the money again? I used to do the same thing as you on a smaller scale (in the hundreds, never the thousands). I noticed that while loaning more money made more sense to me, whenever I did that it was a struggle to get the money back. Meanwhile when I loaned the exact amount, it more often came back. I lost several friendships this way for a short while, with the only way to get the person out of the guilt cycle to surprise them at some random Christmas or birthday with "my gift to you this year is to give you the money you owe me". With them later telling me that they were feeling so guilty about the money they avoided talking to me because every conversation would make them feel miserable. Now when I loan money, I enter the amount in an app we have in common and then actually put in place a (vague) payment plan. I find it helps people structure the entire situation and since they get to pay some money back the guilt is less present. It seem to remove the expectation that they need to gather the full amount before paying back.
erikpukinskis 4y ago
Similar thing happened to me. I had a roommate who regularly needed a loan for rent. They eventually descended into drug use and chaos and we wanted them out of the house. They kept missing their supposed move-out dates, so I offered to cancel out their ~$5k in debt if they were out on a certain date. Keep in mind I was unable to afford groceries many of these months. In the end, they cleared out on that date and I never heard from them again. Even though we were quite close at one time. Money well spent really.
- citizenpaul 4y ago
  There is an old saying if you lend someone $100 and never see them again. It was probably a good use of $100.
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paxys 4y ago
> The goal is to never be asked for money again and slowly bled out by frequent sob stories Sometimes if you "loan" people money they will cut contact and disappear from your life. The much more likely scenario is that you will get the reputation of someone who has money and is generous with it, and these requests and sob stories will increase 100x.
Dig1t 4y ago
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend, And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry." -Shakespear I've just followed this my entire life and it has served me very well. Other than a mortgage, I never borrow, and other than family emergencies, I never lend.
- n4r9 4y ago
  Worth noting that this quotation is spoken by Polonius in Hamlet. According to Wikipedia: > He is chief counsellor of the play's ultimate villain, Claudius, and the father of Laertes and Ophelia. Generally regarded as wrong in every judgment he makes over the course of the play, Polonius is described by William Hazlitt as a "sincere" father, but also "a busy-body, [who] is accordingly officious, garrulous, and impertinent".
Minor49er 4y ago
This is more or less the same advice that Kevin O'Leary gives in his book "The Cold Hard Truth on Men, Women, and Money". His stance is that money is basically like blood since you need it to live, so it should be protected from predators and leeches
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a4isms 4y ago
I do not loan money to people, ever. I will give money to people I know to help them out from time to time. Sometimes people ask for a loan and insist they will repay me. Fine, I will call it a loan because that's what helps them frame things in their own heads. If they repay me, also fine, why would I turn down free money? But for my own peace of mind, I think of these things as gifts to help a good person out. If I don't think of them as loans, I don't find myself chasing former friends for repayment. I am not a bank. I am not a debt collector. I do not wish to become a bank or debt collector as a side hustle. If you ask me for more money than I can afford to gve you without repayment, it is far less stressful to say "no" and get the conflict over with on the spot.
racl101 4y ago
> The goal is to never be asked for money again and slowly bled out by frequent sob stories. If they know they are already into me for more than they thought they would get, they won’t come back, and I don’t look like a jerk. This only works if the people have fucking shame. I have a relative who has no shame and will keep taking as much money as you'll let him take. So I limit what i give. He keeps saying to me it's ok if I borrow and charge him points ... but in the Christian tradition usury is a sin so I don't and though I'm not a religious person, I was raised with mainly Christians principles that I adhere to because they just seem like good principles in general to live by. Plus I'm pretty sure if I did charge interest I'd just be disappointed when he doesn't follow through with interest payments knowing how flaky he is with his money. I'd rather just give money and give what's comfortable.
cableshaft 4y ago
I knew a person who this wouldn't deter them. We were sort of friends through a common industry, and I talked to him once in a blue moon. Gave them some money after they posted a real bad sob story on FB during the pandemic and not even a week later they asked for more (a lot more). Kept asking me for money for some new reason every time I popped onto Facebook via Messenger until I stopped updating my active status. A bit later they deleted that profile and created a new one, and I decided not to become friends with him again. Looking the guy up, and he was always posting GoFundMe's for some cause or family illness or another, and you'd see links to people in the industry asking for things on his behalf periodically across various websites, going back more than a decade. I do believe he dug himself into a deep hole and he was in a hard place, but I also believe he's willing to take advantage of anyone as much and as often as possible until he can't get anything more from them, then moves on to the next person (well, probably multiple people at the same time). So anyway, that's too fresh in my head, and I'm hesitant to give anyone money for anything right now. I've got plenty of crap going on for the forseeable future that needs a bunch of money anyway (implants, roof replacement, flooded basement, etc).
Aaronstotle 4y ago
Could you loan me 5 XMR?
giantg2 4y ago
I'm cheap and would gladly look like a jerk instead of lending $1k haha
John23832 4y ago
Oprah said it best. If you give money, the other side will always resent you when you try to get it back. They'll think "I'm struggling to pay this, and this person had it" however irrational that may seem. If you care enough to give, just give. If you don't, don't.
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jrochkind1 4y ago
You're paying people off to go away and leave you alone and not be your friend, in a way that doesn't make you look like a jerk like you would be if you just didn't loan them money? The only way this makes sense to me, especially at that kind of money you're talking about, is if you are fairly wealthy. And, man, to me what this says is that it's impossible to have real solid relationships with people if you are rich and they aren't. It makes me think of all these people who only are interested in you for your money, and your fear that people will think you're a jerk if you don't give them money (over and over again!) anyway because you have so much money, all these people approaching you with "sob stories." It seems like it makes it almost impossible to be real friends with people, if they aren't as wealthy as you. I guess it's a reason to be glad I'm not that rich, after all.

ARandomerDude 4y ago

Same. "Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed." – Proverbs 19:17

inwit 4y ago

[flagged]

zahrc 4y ago

That is so surreal to me. I had to loan money from friends for real emergencies and always made sure they get paid - often more than they gave. How can one not be guilt-ridden until their deathbed?

serioussecurity 4y ago
Heavy drinking. Usually they're choosing between a set of bad options.
danuker 4y ago
There exist sociopaths and utility monsters.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Or, at the most charitable, people in really bad places (either by choices or bad luck)... and are doing what they need to get by. And honestly, habitually soliciting money from friends shares a lot of similarities with using venture capital -- the reasoning that it's better to explode with someone else's money than your own.
  - danuker 4y ago
    To be fair, the stock market has been invented to spread risk. Better to own 10% of 10 boat expeditions than only one whole boat.
johnchristopher 4y ago
> How can one not be guilt-ridden until their deathbed? Well, some most likely are.
SuoDuanDao 4y ago
The majority of requests for money come from a minority of people with sad stories. You are clearly a member of the majority.
okasaki 4y ago
If you're struggling, and get $1000 from someone who made $100M on crypto, would you be in a hurry to pay them back, or even care at all?
- roflyear 4y ago
  I'd honestly hope that person wouldn't make it seem like it is a loan. I'd hope they just said "hey, here's money." Seems like a major jerk move to structure the "loan" in a way where you remove these people from your life.
  - Consultant32452 4y ago
    It's an efficient and polite way of determining if your "loan" actually helps them, or they are going to be a bottomless pit of misery and $ requests. If the loan helps them, they will be able to pay it back and all will be well. If it doesn't help them, then there's likely no value in giving them more money. If you want be charitable, there's certainly more efficient ways than giving free money to random people who ask you.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      It's super inefficient, and it's absolutely not polite.
      - Consultant32452 4y ago
        You loan someone money not expecting them to pay it back, you never bring it up or bother them, they decide to leave your life forever. You are the bad guy. Only on the internet.
        roflyear 4y ago
        No... if you have some messed up system that involved that process to filter people from your life, you're the bad guy, yeah. Not just on the internet, either.
SuoDuanDao 4y ago
The majority of requests for money come from a minority of people with sad stories. You are clearly a member of the majority of people with sad stories. I think the minority would call you a victim of 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome'.
Juliate 4y ago
It's peculiar. Some people sometimes kind of resent those that saw their weakness, responded to it and helped them. Misplaced pride? Or lack of self-awareness and acceptation of their shortcomings? Guilt that builds upon itself (where just talking about it first could ... just clear things up)? Or they don't know/understand/weren't explained how to repay it (even if that's as simple as just paying back, or only saying "thanks"). Social rituals definitely help here.

mikrl 4y ago

Would telling them to go fuck themselves not be cheaper and easier? Edit: I don’t have fuck you money, so I am actually ignorant of the dynamic you’re describing. I’d rather be known as an asshole with backbone than a rich sap though. One of those looks more like a mark than the other.

postalrat 4y ago
Do you often consider friends and family as rich saps or marks?
- mikrl 4y ago
  No, for those people who would “ride for me” and vice versa I have loyalty and don’t mind helping them with money, but I’d expect to stay involved in their lives. If they scuttle off, then they weren’t real at all, and I got played. I guess this supports OPs point, so I kinda get it. However this group of people is not very large, most people I know aren’t getting money willy-nilly.
- winphone1974 4y ago
  You shouldn't loan money to those people though, just give it without expectation of repayment.
  - strken 4y ago
    Why not? I've borrowed thousands of dollars from family at times, lent thousands of dollars to them at others, and we've always repaid each other eventually. It's normal to forgive a loan to family if circumstances change, or to give money no-strings-attached if they need it, but it's equally normal to loan money to help with cash flow problems and then expect repayment eventually.
    - mikrl 4y ago
      >I've borrowed thousands of dollars from family at times Is this common? Such a thing is unthinkable to me, and even friends from more businesslike families than mine have expressed major shame to me that they had to get a couple grand from their dad to cover closing costs (paid back within weeks)

Sakos 4y ago

Same here. If I'm able, I'll loan whatever amount necessary. Some people pay it back, some don't. I never tell them they have to and I never expect them to. In most cases it's been worth it, because 1) they know they can count on me when they're having trouble (and that's important to me) and 2) I've found they'll help me in whatever they can if I do need help. I've also asked friends for money and I've been incredibly grateful to have people who have had my back in that way. There's a sense of security there that's invaluable. Some people are just perpetually bad with money and always come back for more, and that's okay too. As long as I can afford it, I don't mind helping somebody out of a tough spot, even if it's semi-regularly. I wonder if Carmack ever regrets lending money to somebody.

ryandrake 4y ago
I don't remember where I read this, but a good compromise strategy for lending money you don't think you're getting back might be this: 1. Assume it's never getting paid back and only lend out money you're willing to lose. 2. Tell them if you get paid back in full, then later, they can ask for another loan. 3. If you don't get paid back, then consider it a gift, but no more loans to that person. This way, you can continue helping people who are down on their luck but responsible about paying back, and you avoid being drained by deadbeats.

jaypeg25 4y ago

Can I have $2k

fragmede 4y ago
Stay classy HN

repomies69 4y ago

But do you give the loans out only in monero

bena 4y ago

What happens to with the people who do come back? Let's say you loan me $5k and I come back and ask for another $2k, what's your response?

RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 4y ago

Instead of rewarding the antisocial behavior and therefore causing it to happen more frequently, albeit to other people, I would recommend one of these: - "I'm sorry but I've lost my job. I cannot afford this." - "I'm sorry but no means no." - If they insist: "Which part of the two letters in 'No' do you not understand?" You aren't the jerk. Someone who doesn't accept "no" is the jerk. There's places to go to to lend money, they're called banks. If you're not a bank it's not your job.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
Nothing is your job except your job, but how impoverished would your life, family and your community be if everyone stuck to strictly that? You might be right on the specifics in this case, I'll abstain from making judgement. But as a guideline, as a framework, "it's not your job" is monstrously insufficient.
- RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 4y ago
  We're talking primarily about people who don't pay their debts here. There's no loss to my life if these people remove themselves from it. They're thieves in disguise, nothing more. No value is lost if they leave. And in fact, because money is stored time, my life becomes MORE if they leave, because I lose less of the time of my life to them.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    grim way to think of people but ok have fun
    - RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 4y ago
      It's the view of someone who has lost over $10k to "I'll pay it back!!!" people - they haven't payed back in 10 years now. And they left behind truckloads of trash. How much have you lost to those? I would speculate once you get to a sum this significant your perspective would change ;)

gernb 4y ago

It's very generous of you. I'd like to point out my experience of taking the loan and never repaying it. I felt guilty for decades and more distant from the loaner. They never brought it up but my guilty mind did. So I'm not 100% sure it was a net positive for our relationship. If I was to do loan money and they didn't pay back in some reasonable amount of time I think I'd tell them explicitly it was a gift. Though I'm not sure that would fix things in the guilty person's mind (yea, I get I'm projecting my feeling on guilt on them. They might not feel any guilt at all)

cypress66 4y ago
Why didn't you repay them?
- gernb 4y ago
  never felt in a position to repay while they were alive.
ars 4y ago
It's not too late to repay them. You'll feel better, and so will they. Adjust for inflation if it's really been decades.
- gernb 4y ago
  they are no longer alive.
  - ars 4y ago
    Then pay their inheritors. Or use the money to loan to someone else who is in the same financial position you were in.
  - glonq 4y ago
    repay their descendants?

greenthrow 4y ago

That is not how the psychology of that interaction would work. If someone doesn't want more than what they asked you for they wouldn't accept it. If they did want more then they aren't going to stop asking because you gave them extra. This is an obvious fabrication by someone with little to no actual life experience.

fdye 4y ago

Same. Several years ago I had an ex-GF of sorts reach out to me in SF. She was passing through and wanted to say hi, etc. I had a couple hours before my shift at a bar I worked at so I swung by where she was, bought her a drink, etc. Immediately could tell she was in a bad place, looked like her occasional drug use had become a permanent, more hard kind. About halfway through the drink was a clumsy come on and a push for some cash, she was out of gas, couldn't get home, whatever. I ended up giving her like $40, a big hug, said goodbye. The whole time she is swearing up and down she will be back next week, will pay me back, etc. I got to work and told a coworker what had happened. She thought I was crazy and was laughing cause I had been conned by an ex. I then explained if I never saw my $40 again it was money well spent. One less person in my life bringing with it their chaos, and our history had made it hard to totally write off. Sure enough, never heard from her again...

asveikau 4y ago
> She thought I was crazy and was laughing cause I had been conned by an ex. I then explained if I never saw my $40 again it was money well spent. One less person in my life bringing with it their chaos I was surprised by some of this, especially this last part. Firstly, $40 is not a lot of money. Hardly a "big con". Second, I think the "money well spent" part is that you helped her in some small amount, when it was obvious she was suffering, and you didn't expect anything in return. I think if she had come back expecting continued/sustained support, then you'd be right to pull away. But that sounds like the story of somebody who struggled in that moment and you gave some small gesture of support. I think it's good. Hardly an "investment to get her to leave you alone". That sounds too cynical and harsh.
- simplotek 4y ago
  > Second, I think the "money well spent" part is that you helped her in some small amount, when it was obvious she was suffering, and you didn't expect anything in return. It seems you have been lucky enough to be living a sheltered life, without any acquaintance having tried to chat you up to their advantage. Unfortunately there are plenty of people in the real world who are either takers or outright set to exploit you. Not many, but enough to have people learn the wisdom of saying "no" to sob stories. I once came across a guy who apparently lived close to me who was asking for money for a taxi ride because he was out of gas and had to go to the hospital to check up on his kid who had an emergency and blablabla. I gave the guy 10€ and wished him well. Fast forward a couple of weeks and I stumble upon the same guy right on the same spot. He clearly didn't recognize me as he asked me again for money for a taxi ride because he ran out of gas and his kid was just admitted to the hospital and blablabla. I asked him if he didn't asked for that same request a few weeks ago, to which he just stood there looking at me without saying a word, and after a couple of seconds he turned back and proceeded to walk away and never be seen again. In the pre mass online shopping days I also had a close friend who just moved to another city. Our friend group had thrown him a big farewell party and everyone promised to keep in touch and visit all the time and all those things. After a few days that friend reached out to us saying he now lived right next to a consumer electronics megashop, and if any of us wanted anything shipped then we could simply send him the cash and he would buy the stuff we needed. A couple of guys from the friend group took him on his offer and sent him cash transfers, and that friend proceeded to ghost everyone. Sadly I have other personal anecdotes, some of which real sob stories. It really depends on what you mean by helping people with a small amount. Those who profit from your actions do benefit from the money they get from you even if it's under false pretenses. Robbers who steal stuff from people around them are also helped by getting their hands on il gotten gains.

0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago

The Bronx Tale strategy: https://youtu.be/78-4RobJQ0Y https://youtu.be/78-4RobJQ0Y

bluedino 4y ago
On the other hand, now everyone thinks you're an easy target to borrow money from, and they won't have to pay you back.
- fragmede 4y ago
  How many randoms do you envision coming up to them to ask for money?
  - bluedino 4y ago
    People at work, the gym, bar, wherever you go. We had a guy at the racquetball club move away, and then about 10 people all mentioned how he owed them $20...
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
      But that’s the reverse relationship? One guy asking several people for money. Additionally, I think most people who borrow or lend money do not make a habit of discussing it.
      - bluedino 4y ago
        In the movie mention in the original post, the character looks up to a mobster. A mob guy would typically do loan sharking, so people would go to them for a loan. If you're going to be a loan shark you can't have people thinking they won't have to pay you back. You have to break their kneecaps.

wkat4242 4y ago

Why would you pay so much just for them not to annoy you? That seems a very high price for some peace and quiet. I would just cut off contact with those people. I don't really get this much because I'm not rich, but if people ask me for loans just to get money out of me I will be the one breaking off contact. On the other hand I have a friend of mine who has loaned money and never paid me back, but she is always in a financial hard spot and she is extremely generous to the community she drives. I never really expected to be paid back for that either but in this case I just wanted to help someone who cares more about others than herself.

smt88 4y ago
Yeah, this is incredibly bizarre, to the point of being hard to believe
fragmede 4y ago
Guessing from the username Monero-xmr, they accidentally found themselves in the $100-millionaire bracket. More money than a person could spend in a lifetime. What do you do with that kind of wealth?
- wkat4242 4y ago
  Fair enough, I suppose it really changes your view on money (though I notice that super rich people I know are actually less generous in general). For me $1k would really be a lot especially just for someone to shut up.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    What is a dollar worth to you? Stupid question, right? A dollar is a dollar. How about a penny? Would you bother to pick up a penny? How about a million pennies? If you're making $10 million/yr, $1k to get someone to buzz off is cheap. The inequalities of capitalism are gross, but while we're here, that's the way the world works.
deebosong 4y ago
I'm with you on this one. Sure, money or anything can be used as a test to determine someone's character. But you can do so without putting money on the line and save yourself some headache. One way to determine someone's character is to spend time with them, listen to what they say about themselves and others, and whether or not their claims about themselves line up with their actions across time. Maybe money is "cheaper" and "faster" than this route, but... Guess that's just been my go-to method to determine whether or not someone has integrity, is trustworthy, and has a sense of responsibility, parity, and respect for self and others. Giving money without expecting it in return, or even being clear about expecting to be paid back, is more about having gauged people's characters & motivations, even when I get it wrong or things don't pan out as agreed-upon.

jamra 4y ago

This reminds me of the one lady from my previous job that lost her daughter. We held a fundraiser at work. She made a lot of money out of it. Then she lost her niece. It was so sad to have misery strike twice. Until she lost another niece. Then we checked up on it. Nobody had died.

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Karawebnetwork 4y ago

Could it be that by loaning more money than they expected, they spent that money and then entered into a negative cycle where they were never able to gather the money again? I used to do the same thing as you on a smaller scale (in the hundreds, never the thousands). I noticed that while loaning more money made more sense to me, whenever I did that it was a struggle to get the money back. Meanwhile when I loaned the exact amount, it more often came back. I lost several friendships this way for a short while, with the only way to get the person out of the guilt cycle to surprise them at some random Christmas or birthday with "my gift to you this year is to give you the money you owe me". With them later telling me that they were feeling so guilty about the money they avoided talking to me because every conversation would make them feel miserable. Now when I loan money, I enter the amount in an app we have in common and then actually put in place a (vague) payment plan. I find it helps people structure the entire situation and since they get to pay some money back the guilt is less present. It seem to remove the expectation that they need to gather the full amount before paying back.

erikpukinskis 4y ago

Similar thing happened to me. I had a roommate who regularly needed a loan for rent. They eventually descended into drug use and chaos and we wanted them out of the house. They kept missing their supposed move-out dates, so I offered to cancel out their ~$5k in debt if they were out on a certain date. Keep in mind I was unable to afford groceries many of these months. In the end, they cleared out on that date and I never heard from them again. Even though we were quite close at one time. Money well spent really.

citizenpaul 4y ago
There is an old saying if you lend someone $100 and never see them again. It was probably a good use of $100.

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paxys 4y ago

> The goal is to never be asked for money again and slowly bled out by frequent sob stories Sometimes if you "loan" people money they will cut contact and disappear from your life. The much more likely scenario is that you will get the reputation of someone who has money and is generous with it, and these requests and sob stories will increase 100x.

Dig1t 4y ago

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend, And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry." -Shakespear I've just followed this my entire life and it has served me very well. Other than a mortgage, I never borrow, and other than family emergencies, I never lend.

n4r9 4y ago
Worth noting that this quotation is spoken by Polonius in Hamlet. According to Wikipedia: > He is chief counsellor of the play's ultimate villain, Claudius, and the father of Laertes and Ophelia. Generally regarded as wrong in every judgment he makes over the course of the play, Polonius is described by William Hazlitt as a "sincere" father, but also "a busy-body, [who] is accordingly officious, garrulous, and impertinent".

Minor49er 4y ago

This is more or less the same advice that Kevin O'Leary gives in his book "The Cold Hard Truth on Men, Women, and Money". His stance is that money is basically like blood since you need it to live, so it should be protected from predators and leeches

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a4isms 4y ago

I do not loan money to people, ever. I will give money to people I know to help them out from time to time. Sometimes people ask for a loan and insist they will repay me. Fine, I will call it a loan because that's what helps them frame things in their own heads. If they repay me, also fine, why would I turn down free money? But for my own peace of mind, I think of these things as gifts to help a good person out. If I don't think of them as loans, I don't find myself chasing former friends for repayment. I am not a bank. I am not a debt collector. I do not wish to become a bank or debt collector as a side hustle. If you ask me for more money than I can afford to gve you without repayment, it is far less stressful to say "no" and get the conflict over with on the spot.

racl101 4y ago

> The goal is to never be asked for money again and slowly bled out by frequent sob stories. If they know they are already into me for more than they thought they would get, they won’t come back, and I don’t look like a jerk. This only works if the people have fucking shame. I have a relative who has no shame and will keep taking as much money as you'll let him take. So I limit what i give. He keeps saying to me it's ok if I borrow and charge him points ... but in the Christian tradition usury is a sin so I don't and though I'm not a religious person, I was raised with mainly Christians principles that I adhere to because they just seem like good principles in general to live by. Plus I'm pretty sure if I did charge interest I'd just be disappointed when he doesn't follow through with interest payments knowing how flaky he is with his money. I'd rather just give money and give what's comfortable.

cableshaft 4y ago

I knew a person who this wouldn't deter them. We were sort of friends through a common industry, and I talked to him once in a blue moon. Gave them some money after they posted a real bad sob story on FB during the pandemic and not even a week later they asked for more (a lot more). Kept asking me for money for some new reason every time I popped onto Facebook via Messenger until I stopped updating my active status. A bit later they deleted that profile and created a new one, and I decided not to become friends with him again. Looking the guy up, and he was always posting GoFundMe's for some cause or family illness or another, and you'd see links to people in the industry asking for things on his behalf periodically across various websites, going back more than a decade. I do believe he dug himself into a deep hole and he was in a hard place, but I also believe he's willing to take advantage of anyone as much and as often as possible until he can't get anything more from them, then moves on to the next person (well, probably multiple people at the same time). So anyway, that's too fresh in my head, and I'm hesitant to give anyone money for anything right now. I've got plenty of crap going on for the forseeable future that needs a bunch of money anyway (implants, roof replacement, flooded basement, etc).

Aaronstotle 4y ago

Could you loan me 5 XMR?

giantg2 4y ago

I'm cheap and would gladly look like a jerk instead of lending $1k haha

John23832 4y ago

Oprah said it best. If you give money, the other side will always resent you when you try to get it back. They'll think "I'm struggling to pay this, and this person had it" however irrational that may seem. If you care enough to give, just give. If you don't, don't.

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jrochkind1 4y ago

You're paying people off to go away and leave you alone and not be your friend, in a way that doesn't make you look like a jerk like you would be if you just didn't loan them money? The only way this makes sense to me, especially at that kind of money you're talking about, is if you are fairly wealthy. And, man, to me what this says is that it's impossible to have real solid relationships with people if you are rich and they aren't. It makes me think of all these people who only are interested in you for your money, and your fear that people will think you're a jerk if you don't give them money (over and over again!) anyway because you have so much money, all these people approaching you with "sob stories." It seems like it makes it almost impossible to be real friends with people, if they aren't as wealthy as you. I guess it's a reason to be glad I'm not that rich, after all.