4 ms·

Absolutely correct! It's double taxation!

trominos 18y ago
So? Tax rates are determined (well, should be) by what works. If some double taxation is good for the nation, more power to it.
- laut 18y ago
  First of all it is morally wrong. And for the good of a nation? Nationalism is an ugly thing. Second of all it's not good for the nation.
  - rw 18y ago
    Morally wrong? Like how? Please look up "utilitarianism" and do some reading on ethics, social contracts, etc. A statement like the one you made really needs further reasoning to back it up. You might even be correct - but just claiming something to be true doesn't make it so.
    - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
      socialism is ideally utilitarian. in reality the only people who benefit are those who hold the regulatory power to grant or withhold public funding. all you wind up doing is concentrating power in the hands of those who get to decide what is "the greatest good".
- deepster 18y ago
  I have no problems with double taxation. Just don't compare capital gains vs. Income tax. Which is what the blogger is doing. When in reality the equation is: Actual Tax Paid = (Income Tax + Capital Gains tax).
mlinsey 18y ago
I do not understand why people make such a big deal of the "double taxation" argument specifically in the context of capital gains. If I hire an employee, I have to pay payroll taxes on the salary I pay him or her, and then I also have to pay business taxes on the value that the employee gives to the company in the form of increased revenue. Is this "double taxation" also a cause for moral outrage?
- nazgulnarsil 18y ago
  yes. name something good that comes from federal taxes. all of the things that I associate with good government (schools, firefighting, disaster preparedness, zoning, etc.) are all handled by state and local governments. the vast majority of federal taxes go towards socialist pyramid schemes or a wasteful military that got so bored it had to attack iraq.
  - mlinsey 18y ago
    So in other words you have no problem with "double taxation" per se, your issue is with taxes generally.
  - fallentimes 18y ago
    Agreed. All I can think of is defense (not offense), intelligence, (poorly executed) safety nets, (some) education and (some) infrastructure. Lot of qualifiers, which exemplifies the problem.
    - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
      the intelligence service is one of the worst offenders. it is the epitome of bloat and corruption.
      - fallentimes 18y ago
        How do you think it should be fixed/organized? I used to live in DC; I cried myself to sleep at night thinking about government waste.
        kingkongrevenge 18y ago
        The city is a monument to plunder. I walk or drive around and wonder at the wealth you see, which is all stolen from all over the country.
        18y ago
rms 18y ago
If you don't tax capital, then only the wealthy will own capital. Eventually the capital starts owning itself and then the people don't even own capital anymore. Our tax system has to try and fix one of the fundamental flaws of capitalism -- the tendency for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. Without a capital gains tax, this very worst aspect of capitalism becomes even more emphasized, as capital will last forever.
- kingkongrevenge 18y ago
  > fundamental flaws of capitalism -- the tendency for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer BS. Riches to shirtsleeves abound. Wealth rarely lasts three generations. Now, there are certain subgroups that seem mired in poverty, but that's another matter. The extent to which the rich have been getting richer and the poor getting poorer for the last 30 years in America has everything to do with the explosive growth of government and regulation, NOT capitalism. Capital gains should be zero. All wealth creation is driven by savings and capital. Maximized capital investment and the incentives to save, maximize growth. Income taxes should also be zero, by the way. It is entirely feasible to fund a properly scoped government with excise, duties, and user fees.
- yummyfajitas 18y ago
  In what capitalist/mostly capitalist system have the poor gotten poorer? Certainly, the rich may get rich faster than the poor, but that's far from the same thing.
- fallentimes 18y ago
  I sort of see what you're saying. But the States' poor now are better off than the States' middle class was in the 1800s. The problem is, this isn't close to true in many other countries.

So? Tax rates are determined (well, should be) by what works. If some double taxation is good for the nation, more power to it.

laut 18y ago
First of all it is morally wrong. And for the good of a nation? Nationalism is an ugly thing. Second of all it's not good for the nation.
- rw 18y ago
  Morally wrong? Like how? Please look up "utilitarianism" and do some reading on ethics, social contracts, etc. A statement like the one you made really needs further reasoning to back it up. You might even be correct - but just claiming something to be true doesn't make it so.
  - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
    socialism is ideally utilitarian. in reality the only people who benefit are those who hold the regulatory power to grant or withhold public funding. all you wind up doing is concentrating power in the hands of those who get to decide what is "the greatest good".
deepster 18y ago
I have no problems with double taxation. Just don't compare capital gains vs. Income tax. Which is what the blogger is doing. When in reality the equation is: Actual Tax Paid = (Income Tax + Capital Gains tax).

mlinsey 18y ago

I do not understand why people make such a big deal of the "double taxation" argument specifically in the context of capital gains. If I hire an employee, I have to pay payroll taxes on the salary I pay him or her, and then I also have to pay business taxes on the value that the employee gives to the company in the form of increased revenue. Is this "double taxation" also a cause for moral outrage?

nazgulnarsil 18y ago
yes. name something good that comes from federal taxes. all of the things that I associate with good government (schools, firefighting, disaster preparedness, zoning, etc.) are all handled by state and local governments. the vast majority of federal taxes go towards socialist pyramid schemes or a wasteful military that got so bored it had to attack iraq.
- mlinsey 18y ago
  So in other words you have no problem with "double taxation" per se, your issue is with taxes generally.
- fallentimes 18y ago
  Agreed. All I can think of is defense (not offense), intelligence, (poorly executed) safety nets, (some) education and (some) infrastructure. Lot of qualifiers, which exemplifies the problem.
  - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
    the intelligence service is one of the worst offenders. it is the epitome of bloat and corruption.
    - fallentimes 18y ago
      How do you think it should be fixed/organized? I used to live in DC; I cried myself to sleep at night thinking about government waste.
      - kingkongrevenge 18y ago
        The city is a monument to plunder. I walk or drive around and wonder at the wealth you see, which is all stolen from all over the country.
        18y ago

rms 18y ago

If you don't tax capital, then only the wealthy will own capital. Eventually the capital starts owning itself and then the people don't even own capital anymore. Our tax system has to try and fix one of the fundamental flaws of capitalism -- the tendency for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. Without a capital gains tax, this very worst aspect of capitalism becomes even more emphasized, as capital will last forever.

kingkongrevenge 18y ago
> fundamental flaws of capitalism -- the tendency for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer BS. Riches to shirtsleeves abound. Wealth rarely lasts three generations. Now, there are certain subgroups that seem mired in poverty, but that's another matter. The extent to which the rich have been getting richer and the poor getting poorer for the last 30 years in America has everything to do with the explosive growth of government and regulation, NOT capitalism. Capital gains should be zero. All wealth creation is driven by savings and capital. Maximized capital investment and the incentives to save, maximize growth. Income taxes should also be zero, by the way. It is entirely feasible to fund a properly scoped government with excise, duties, and user fees.
yummyfajitas 18y ago
In what capitalist/mostly capitalist system have the poor gotten poorer? Certainly, the rich may get rich faster than the poor, but that's far from the same thing.
fallentimes 18y ago
I sort of see what you're saying. But the States' poor now are better off than the States' middle class was in the 1800s. The problem is, this isn't close to true in many other countries.