6 ms·

> Yikes. I don't know about yikes. Hard to make the case that there's a ton of value in commericial space with the crime, drugs, and filth that constitutes som

> Yikes. I don't know about yikes. Hard to make the case that there's a ton of value in commericial space with the crime, drugs, and filth that constitutes soma, especially now that office space is just an incidental thing to most SF companies.

idoh 4y ago
Doesn't that justify a "yikes" response for the reasons you listed? It is abnormal for rent over a decade+ to be flat given inflation, so something bad has to have happened.
- ibejoeb 4y ago
  The implication is that rent dropped. I think that's an entirely natural function of the circumstances.
  - gameman144 4y ago
    I read the "yikes" as being about those circumstance. Essentially, "wow, the circumstances are so bad that this obviously bad outcome is happening. Yikes at those circumstances."
gavinray 4y ago
I've been all over the US, and I recently visited SF for the first time on a work trip. Never seen such a desolate place, and I say this as someone who has been homeless before and slept in homeless shelters. Homeless shelters in Boulder, CO were about x10 less sketchy than the streets I walked around in downtown SF. I'm not sure where we were exactly, but there was homeless shooting up in the street at least once every few blocks, plus garbage everywhere and human waste. What the absolute fuck is going on down there
- yodsanklai 4y ago
  Is the problem addressed in some way? or people have concluded that there were no solutions?
  - the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
    I think it hit a low point during and just after 2020. I would guess it's slightly better now just based on my few visits there. For sure there is a ton of daily cleaning going on now on the side walks which helps just lifting up the entire perception of the street. It was smelling of urine constantly, now it's not nearly as bad any more.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    The mayor finally snapped and realized that things need to change, but every attempt to improve the situation is opposed by some interest group or group of residents who still hold on to the same bad set of policies that let the problem get so bad in the first place.
    - fosk 4y ago
      When you have more than a billion dollar spent every year on homelessness, do they really want homelessness to end? Think about it. They call it “homeless industrial complex” for a reason.
      - polynomial 4y ago
        Would be interested what that number is just for SF. (Assuming $1B is national expenditure.)
        jdminhbg 4y ago
        Heh, no, the $1B is for SF: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-has-an-unprecedented-1-1-billion-to-spend-16318448.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-has-an-unpre...
        Swizec 4y ago
- pronlover723 4y ago
  I'll take the hits. It's lefty paradise. The city is 85% democrat and has the highest per capita tax revenue of any city in the USA. In other words they have the most money to solve problems via the government which is generally what the left thinks is good. The policies the city choose via its democrat leadership arguably lead to exactly what the city is. ps: this post does not mean I'm on the right or that the right has all the solutions. But I do tend to think many left solutions are counter productive and I think SF is good example of unintended consequences.
  - mc32 4y ago
    Some of the blame lies with the system of non-profits and perverse incentives (if they solve the problem they cease to exist and their upper management and other grifters lose their cushy jobs), so they devise solutions that seem plausible yet never produce results for the target population, except again for the upper management and system.
    - wahern 4y ago
      > devise solutions that seem plausible But there are mountains of evidence! (In the form of an endless stream of low-quality sociology studies.)
  - jmyeet 4y ago
    > It's lefty paradise. Ok, let's get into some definitions and corrections. SF isn't a lefty paradise. It's a liberal paradise. "Liberal" has pretty much become synonymous with "neoliberal". And by "liberal" i include the vast majority of Democrat and Republican voters (certainly as neoliberals). Liberalism is really about aesthetics and is performative, like how racism famously ended when we elected a black president or misogyny ended when we appointed a female Supreme Court justice. The primary differentiating factor between Democrat and Republican voters are social issues but here's why it's aesthetic/performative. Democrats might tend to self-identify as being against racism but, as you see in the Bay Area, will tend to adamanatly oppose any effort to build more or cheaper housing. The entire political spectrum in US politics still works at the behest of corporate interests, first and foremost. My point here is that you cannot separate economic from social policy, which is why such labels as "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" are fundamentally flawed. If SF were truly a "lefty paradise", it would attack the core issue of homelessness and poverty (and the resulting crime), which is housing. But instead, you have superficial/aesthetic policies aimed at reducing the appearance of homelessness (eg clearing out homeless encampments). There is no meaningful "lefty" or "leftist" movement anywhere in the United States. What many people label as "lefty" or "liberal" anywhere else in the world would be labelled as "center right" politics.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  One factor: Temperate weather and relatively little rainfall.
- hindsightbias 4y ago
  I just returned from one of the most tony neighborhoods in TX. In the last week, my niece had hide in a restaraunt kitchen after a carjacking gun battle broke out front, a store was mob raided, and she had to call the cops to a posh hotel where a woman was being beaten in the parking lot while the valets watched.

idoh 4y ago

Doesn't that justify a "yikes" response for the reasons you listed? It is abnormal for rent over a decade+ to be flat given inflation, so something bad has to have happened.

ibejoeb 4y ago
The implication is that rent dropped. I think that's an entirely natural function of the circumstances.
- gameman144 4y ago
  I read the "yikes" as being about those circumstance. Essentially, "wow, the circumstances are so bad that this obviously bad outcome is happening. Yikes at those circumstances."

gavinray 4y ago

I've been all over the US, and I recently visited SF for the first time on a work trip. Never seen such a desolate place, and I say this as someone who has been homeless before and slept in homeless shelters. Homeless shelters in Boulder, CO were about x10 less sketchy than the streets I walked around in downtown SF. I'm not sure where we were exactly, but there was homeless shooting up in the street at least once every few blocks, plus garbage everywhere and human waste. What the absolute fuck is going on down there

yodsanklai 4y ago
Is the problem addressed in some way? or people have concluded that there were no solutions?
- the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
  I think it hit a low point during and just after 2020. I would guess it's slightly better now just based on my few visits there. For sure there is a ton of daily cleaning going on now on the side walks which helps just lifting up the entire perception of the street. It was smelling of urine constantly, now it's not nearly as bad any more.
- twblalock 4y ago
  The mayor finally snapped and realized that things need to change, but every attempt to improve the situation is opposed by some interest group or group of residents who still hold on to the same bad set of policies that let the problem get so bad in the first place.
  - fosk 4y ago
    When you have more than a billion dollar spent every year on homelessness, do they really want homelessness to end? Think about it. They call it “homeless industrial complex” for a reason.
    - polynomial 4y ago
      Would be interested what that number is just for SF. (Assuming $1B is national expenditure.)
      - jdminhbg 4y ago
        Heh, no, the $1B is for SF: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-has-an-unprecedented-1-1-billion-to-spend-16318448.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-has-an-unpre...
      - Swizec 4y ago
pronlover723 4y ago
I'll take the hits. It's lefty paradise. The city is 85% democrat and has the highest per capita tax revenue of any city in the USA. In other words they have the most money to solve problems via the government which is generally what the left thinks is good. The policies the city choose via its democrat leadership arguably lead to exactly what the city is. ps: this post does not mean I'm on the right or that the right has all the solutions. But I do tend to think many left solutions are counter productive and I think SF is good example of unintended consequences.
- mc32 4y ago
  Some of the blame lies with the system of non-profits and perverse incentives (if they solve the problem they cease to exist and their upper management and other grifters lose their cushy jobs), so they devise solutions that seem plausible yet never produce results for the target population, except again for the upper management and system.
  - wahern 4y ago
    > devise solutions that seem plausible But there are mountains of evidence! (In the form of an endless stream of low-quality sociology studies.)
- jmyeet 4y ago
  > It's lefty paradise. Ok, let's get into some definitions and corrections. SF isn't a lefty paradise. It's a liberal paradise. "Liberal" has pretty much become synonymous with "neoliberal". And by "liberal" i include the vast majority of Democrat and Republican voters (certainly as neoliberals). Liberalism is really about aesthetics and is performative, like how racism famously ended when we elected a black president or misogyny ended when we appointed a female Supreme Court justice. The primary differentiating factor between Democrat and Republican voters are social issues but here's why it's aesthetic/performative. Democrats might tend to self-identify as being against racism but, as you see in the Bay Area, will tend to adamanatly oppose any effort to build more or cheaper housing. The entire political spectrum in US politics still works at the behest of corporate interests, first and foremost. My point here is that you cannot separate economic from social policy, which is why such labels as "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" are fundamentally flawed. If SF were truly a "lefty paradise", it would attack the core issue of homelessness and poverty (and the resulting crime), which is housing. But instead, you have superficial/aesthetic policies aimed at reducing the appearance of homelessness (eg clearing out homeless encampments). There is no meaningful "lefty" or "leftist" movement anywhere in the United States. What many people label as "lefty" or "liberal" anywhere else in the world would be labelled as "center right" politics.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
One factor: Temperate weather and relatively little rainfall.
hindsightbias 4y ago
I just returned from one of the most tony neighborhoods in TX. In the last week, my niece had hide in a restaraunt kitchen after a carjacking gun battle broke out front, a store was mob raided, and she had to call the cops to a posh hotel where a woman was being beaten in the parking lot while the valets watched.