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With sap, the end user is not the customer. Hence, the whole thing is designed to pass a sales pitch and nothing else. The people who use this are not the ones

With sap, the end user is not the customer. Hence, the whole thing is designed to pass a sales pitch and nothing else. The people who use this are not the ones who make the buy decision.

samwillis 4y ago
That's the same with all enterprise software sales. However the counter argument is that there are multiple layers of "end user" and the executives who purchase it, but don't "use" it, are still recipients of the the output from the system. They will read the reports, and use it for insight. Point is though, you are right, the majority of users of these systems are very removed from the purchasing decisions. And therefor the UX for them is very often subpar.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Everybody but upper management uses ERP systems to literally keep the lights on. And some of those reports are to be published quarterly, you know, balance sheets and such...
hef19898 4y ago
The whole system, SAP is way more than expenses (!), is there to keep multi-national manufacturing networks running. And to pass all kinds of quality and financial audits. That people fail to realize that, and still think dumping on legacy UI and ERP systems, is just beyond me...
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  People do realise that. That doesn't mean SAP has a good UI.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Until we have a discussion about things like inventory valuation and write off rules across coubtries and business units, the use of production orders, demand forecasting, monthly closure across sites, countries and lefal entities, assets and corresponding write offs and how all of that is integrated in one sofware suite, and how those systems do one thing better than others, I highly doubt people do get it. So far, and the last time we discussed Concur here, we stop at comments about lines in reports, how bothersome it is to upload receipts and how all of that is taling away minutes of peoples othereise highly productive time on their job.
    - imtringued 4y ago
      No, sorry to burst your bubble but the SAP UX is bad and it is proven by all the people trying to build their own front ends on top of it.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        No bubble to burst, SAPs UI sucks. As does any other ERP system I saw. I never disputed that, but that is actually not the point. And all those front ends I know don't cover the core functionalities of ERP system anyway. The fact only UX, which is different from UI, was again adressed, and none of the other points I mentioned, kind of proofs my point.
        robertlagrant 4y ago
        The other points you mentioned weren't relevant to the UI or the UX. That's why no one's addressing them. I get you have some knowledge here and so want to talk about it, but should do so in the knowledge that you're doing so in spite of its relevance, not because of it. In a similar way if someone criticises the Amazon UI, coming in saying, "But no one's addressed my comments on how hard logistics and warehouse management are" would be a non sequitur.
        hef19898 4y ago
        You have no idea how the UI of Amazon's internal tools, whrn it comes to Retail and Fulfillment, look like, do you?
        robertlagrant 4y ago
        I'm not even saying their external UI is good. I'm saying no one should be justifying it with an irrelevant experience they happen to have and can't resist sharing. I haven't convinced you of that though, so I think that's that.

With sap, the end user is not the customer. Hence, the whole thing is designed to pass a sales pitch and nothing else. The people who use this are not the ones who make the buy decision.

samwillis 4y ago

That's the same with all enterprise software sales. However the counter argument is that there are multiple layers of "end user" and the executives who purchase it, but don't "use" it, are still recipients of the the output from the system. They will read the reports, and use it for insight. Point is though, you are right, the majority of users of these systems are very removed from the purchasing decisions. And therefor the UX for them is very often subpar.

hef19898 4y ago
Everybody but upper management uses ERP systems to literally keep the lights on. And some of those reports are to be published quarterly, you know, balance sheets and such...

hef19898 4y ago

The whole system, SAP is way more than expenses (!), is there to keep multi-national manufacturing networks running. And to pass all kinds of quality and financial audits. That people fail to realize that, and still think dumping on legacy UI and ERP systems, is just beyond me...

robertlagrant 4y ago
People do realise that. That doesn't mean SAP has a good UI.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Until we have a discussion about things like inventory valuation and write off rules across coubtries and business units, the use of production orders, demand forecasting, monthly closure across sites, countries and lefal entities, assets and corresponding write offs and how all of that is integrated in one sofware suite, and how those systems do one thing better than others, I highly doubt people do get it. So far, and the last time we discussed Concur here, we stop at comments about lines in reports, how bothersome it is to upload receipts and how all of that is taling away minutes of peoples othereise highly productive time on their job.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    No, sorry to burst your bubble but the SAP UX is bad and it is proven by all the people trying to build their own front ends on top of it.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      No bubble to burst, SAPs UI sucks. As does any other ERP system I saw. I never disputed that, but that is actually not the point. And all those front ends I know don't cover the core functionalities of ERP system anyway. The fact only UX, which is different from UI, was again adressed, and none of the other points I mentioned, kind of proofs my point.
      - robertlagrant 4y ago
        The other points you mentioned weren't relevant to the UI or the UX. That's why no one's addressing them. I get you have some knowledge here and so want to talk about it, but should do so in the knowledge that you're doing so in spite of its relevance, not because of it. In a similar way if someone criticises the Amazon UI, coming in saying, "But no one's addressed my comments on how hard logistics and warehouse management are" would be a non sequitur.
        hef19898 4y ago
        You have no idea how the UI of Amazon's internal tools, whrn it comes to Retail and Fulfillment, look like, do you?
        robertlagrant 4y ago
        I'm not even saying their external UI is good. I'm saying no one should be justifying it with an irrelevant experience they happen to have and can't resist sharing. I haven't convinced you of that though, so I think that's that.