7 ms·

> If that's the case, quit immediately If you're so uninterested by your work that thinking about it after 6pm makes you sick, why did you pick it? I've been

> If that's the case, quit immediately If you're so uninterested by your work that thinking about it after 6pm makes you sick, why did you pick it? I've been in the industry for 15 years, coding since 25+ years, and I very often think, code, read about work or work related things at any time of the day or weekend or vacation, because I find it interesting. Why would I work in something of no interest to me?

yamasanama 4y ago
There is a difference between "want to" and "have to". You are talking about the former. GP about the latter.
quanticle 4y ago
If you're so uninterested by your work that thinking about it after 6pm makes you sick, why did you pick it? Doing anything continuously for long periods without rest is unhealthy, and leads to both declining physical and mental health. Working 10-12 hour days is something that you can do for a short burst, but if you're doing it for months on end, it will negatively impact you. I've been in the industry for 15 years, coding since 25+ years, and I very often think, code, read about work or work related things at any time of the day or weekend or vacation I think about code too, but it's rarely work code. It's usually about some hobby project or interesting algorithm that I've picked up.
- Galanwe 4y ago
  I think your comment actually proves my point. You are admitting that you do think about code outside working hours, though you don't consider it to be work because.. it's code for a hobby project? That's not a valid point to me. What if your job was open enough that you could find dozens of interesting fun things to code on the side? That's the job you should be looking for.
  - quanticle 4y ago
    What if your job was open enough that you could find dozens of interesting fun things to code on the side? No job is that open. From your other comment in this thread: I have some days packed with meetings and calls, and I actually find it refreshing/relaxing to work on more down to earth matters in the evenings or weekend. I guess I'm fortunate in that I don't really have that many meetings or calls, and I don't have to spend my weekends and evenings doing programming. I get to do mostly programming during the day. Then, in my off hours, I have the option of programming. But I also have the option of doing other things, like watching TV or reading a book, or going for a bike ride.
    - lazyasciiart 4y ago
      > No job is that open Mine is.
      - isityouyesitsme 4y ago
        I guess with a sample size of 1, I would also be tempted to make sweeping generalizations on an entire industry if the sole same was my own experience.
        lazyasciiart 4y ago
        You're clearly trying to be dismissive of someone, but the overly complex sentence structure makes it hard to tell who you are misrepresenting.
edejong 4y ago
Because there is more to life than coding? Family, friendship, health, leisure… Other professionals actively try to separate these from their daily duties, regardless of whether they like their jobs.
kartoshechka 4y ago
for some people having strict working hours is a baseline to prevent burnout, and generally to have more diverse life where you have time for family, leisure, or even coding your pet project that you don't hate, but it doesn't put any money in your pocket (yet :P)
- aliqot 4y ago
  Some people are dyed-in-the-wool programmers, and doing this is fun for us. It's eustress, not work, like lifting weights. Those other folks watching the clock are doing a job.
beebmam 4y ago
My children are being raised by a parent that cares about them and makes time for them. I didn't have that privilege.
r_hoods_ghost 4y ago
Because there is a very strong negative correlation between overworking and productivity / quality of work. When I've been line managing people I find that if they work over 40-45 hours a week their actual productivity (as opposed to their self perceived productivity) starts to fall off a cliff after a couple of weeks, so I ask people to only work their hours. I've sometimes had to implement technical measures to enforce this when someone gets too obsessive about their work(and have done it to myself a couple of times!). I've never had to fire anyone for working too much and dragging down productivity in a team but I've come close a couple of times.
- Galanwe 4y ago
  > Because there is a very strong negative correlation between overworking and productivity / quality of work Working outside of business hours is not the same as overworking. I have some days packed with meetings and calls, and I actually find it refreshing/relaxing to work on more down to earth matters in the evenings or weekend. Sometimes I even take vacations just to code on some work-related projects that I find super interesting and wouldn't have enough focused/dedicated time on normal business days. Overall the whole hard distinction between work and non-work is overstated IMHO. I choose my work places because I genuinely like what I would do there. I will even go further: If I end up with colleagues that are _not_ genuinely interested in what we do to at least think about interesting problems in their free time, then it's a bozo job, I don't want to work with these people. Nothing great has been achieved by teams where people shut down their brain after 6pm. Now don't get me wrong, I understand that there are gruntwork places out there, where the job is writing braindead CRUD apps all day long, and I wouldn't want to think about it after-work. But then again, I wouldn't work there on the first place.
  - quanticle 4y ago
    Nothing great has been achieved by teams where people shut down their brain after 6pm. Why do you think that the only options are: 1. Thinking about work or 2. Shutting your brain down If I want to go hack on some Clojure after work, when the day job is in Python, then what's wrong with that?
pjerem 4y ago
You are not describing interest, you are describing obsession. I love being a software engineer, still, my family is orders or magnitude more important than my employer’s codebase. I really don’t care about my code architecture issues at work when I play Legos with my son or when I ask my wife if she had a good day while cooking together. And I say that while currently working for a good employer on interesting topics.
- Galanwe 4y ago
  > You are not describing interest, you are describing obsession. I'm describing passion. > love being a software engineer, still, my family is orders or magnitude more important It's not mutually exclusive... I wake up at 6am, usually because that's the time my son wakes up. I spend around 30m with him until my wife takes over. Then I work on some stuff from 6:30 to 8:30 before the rush of the day starts. My wife does her morning yoga starting at 8:30 so I take care of my son from 8:30 until the nany arrives at 9am. I do my work day WFH (with some pauses to play with my son or chat with my wife) until 6pm, then stop to spend time with my son before he goes to bed around 7pm. I cook, eat and discuss with my wife between 7pm and 9pm. We usually then head to the sofa where she watches a movie and I sit next to her reading/coding. She will go to bed around 10pm, I usually continue to work/code/read until 11pm/midnight. 3 times a week I swap the cooking part to go running for an hour. Or I do it at lunch time. Overall I spend quite some time with my wife and child, while still working between 2 and 6 hours more per day. I really don't think I have a crazy schedule, nor that I don't spend enough time with my wife or child, or doing sport.
  - Insanity 4y ago
    I think the interesting parties to answer that are your wife and kid (in the future). There is subjectivity in what constitutes “enough”. And there is also quality vs quantity. Each family is obviously different. As friendly advice, have an open conversation with your wife about that. Speaking from personal experience, I definitely had months where I thought I was balancing my time well enough and my wife disagreed.
    - 4y ago
jooz 4y ago
[dead]
watwut 4y ago
Because you are building strawman and false dichotomy. And also because people able to take proper rest are more productive in the long term.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Chinjut 4y ago
Because I need money to exchange for goods and services in order to live, particularly in order to maintain housing and healthcare. I would love to be paid to pursue my passions full-time, but that opportunity has not yet arisen. So I split my time accordingly between doing what earns me a living and doing what I actually enjoy in life.

yamasanama 4y ago

There is a difference between "want to" and "have to". You are talking about the former. GP about the latter.

quanticle 4y ago

If you're so uninterested by your work that thinking about it after 6pm makes you sick, why did you pick it? Doing anything continuously for long periods without rest is unhealthy, and leads to both declining physical and mental health. Working 10-12 hour days is something that you can do for a short burst, but if you're doing it for months on end, it will negatively impact you. I've been in the industry for 15 years, coding since 25+ years, and I very often think, code, read about work or work related things at any time of the day or weekend or vacation I think about code too, but it's rarely work code. It's usually about some hobby project or interesting algorithm that I've picked up.

Galanwe 4y ago
I think your comment actually proves my point. You are admitting that you do think about code outside working hours, though you don't consider it to be work because.. it's code for a hobby project? That's not a valid point to me. What if your job was open enough that you could find dozens of interesting fun things to code on the side? That's the job you should be looking for.
- quanticle 4y ago
  What if your job was open enough that you could find dozens of interesting fun things to code on the side? No job is that open. From your other comment in this thread: I have some days packed with meetings and calls, and I actually find it refreshing/relaxing to work on more down to earth matters in the evenings or weekend. I guess I'm fortunate in that I don't really have that many meetings or calls, and I don't have to spend my weekends and evenings doing programming. I get to do mostly programming during the day. Then, in my off hours, I have the option of programming. But I also have the option of doing other things, like watching TV or reading a book, or going for a bike ride.
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    > No job is that open Mine is.
    - isityouyesitsme 4y ago
      I guess with a sample size of 1, I would also be tempted to make sweeping generalizations on an entire industry if the sole same was my own experience.
      - lazyasciiart 4y ago
        You're clearly trying to be dismissive of someone, but the overly complex sentence structure makes it hard to tell who you are misrepresenting.

edejong 4y ago

Because there is more to life than coding? Family, friendship, health, leisure… Other professionals actively try to separate these from their daily duties, regardless of whether they like their jobs.

kartoshechka 4y ago

for some people having strict working hours is a baseline to prevent burnout, and generally to have more diverse life where you have time for family, leisure, or even coding your pet project that you don't hate, but it doesn't put any money in your pocket (yet :P)

aliqot 4y ago
Some people are dyed-in-the-wool programmers, and doing this is fun for us. It's eustress, not work, like lifting weights. Those other folks watching the clock are doing a job.

beebmam 4y ago

My children are being raised by a parent that cares about them and makes time for them. I didn't have that privilege.

r_hoods_ghost 4y ago

Because there is a very strong negative correlation between overworking and productivity / quality of work. When I've been line managing people I find that if they work over 40-45 hours a week their actual productivity (as opposed to their self perceived productivity) starts to fall off a cliff after a couple of weeks, so I ask people to only work their hours. I've sometimes had to implement technical measures to enforce this when someone gets too obsessive about their work(and have done it to myself a couple of times!). I've never had to fire anyone for working too much and dragging down productivity in a team but I've come close a couple of times.

Galanwe 4y ago
> Because there is a very strong negative correlation between overworking and productivity / quality of work Working outside of business hours is not the same as overworking. I have some days packed with meetings and calls, and I actually find it refreshing/relaxing to work on more down to earth matters in the evenings or weekend. Sometimes I even take vacations just to code on some work-related projects that I find super interesting and wouldn't have enough focused/dedicated time on normal business days. Overall the whole hard distinction between work and non-work is overstated IMHO. I choose my work places because I genuinely like what I would do there. I will even go further: If I end up with colleagues that are _not_ genuinely interested in what we do to at least think about interesting problems in their free time, then it's a bozo job, I don't want to work with these people. Nothing great has been achieved by teams where people shut down their brain after 6pm. Now don't get me wrong, I understand that there are gruntwork places out there, where the job is writing braindead CRUD apps all day long, and I wouldn't want to think about it after-work. But then again, I wouldn't work there on the first place.
- quanticle 4y ago
  Nothing great has been achieved by teams where people shut down their brain after 6pm. Why do you think that the only options are: 1. Thinking about work or 2. Shutting your brain down If I want to go hack on some Clojure after work, when the day job is in Python, then what's wrong with that?

pjerem 4y ago

You are not describing interest, you are describing obsession. I love being a software engineer, still, my family is orders or magnitude more important than my employer’s codebase. I really don’t care about my code architecture issues at work when I play Legos with my son or when I ask my wife if she had a good day while cooking together. And I say that while currently working for a good employer on interesting topics.

Galanwe 4y ago
> You are not describing interest, you are describing obsession. I'm describing passion. > love being a software engineer, still, my family is orders or magnitude more important It's not mutually exclusive... I wake up at 6am, usually because that's the time my son wakes up. I spend around 30m with him until my wife takes over. Then I work on some stuff from 6:30 to 8:30 before the rush of the day starts. My wife does her morning yoga starting at 8:30 so I take care of my son from 8:30 until the nany arrives at 9am. I do my work day WFH (with some pauses to play with my son or chat with my wife) until 6pm, then stop to spend time with my son before he goes to bed around 7pm. I cook, eat and discuss with my wife between 7pm and 9pm. We usually then head to the sofa where she watches a movie and I sit next to her reading/coding. She will go to bed around 10pm, I usually continue to work/code/read until 11pm/midnight. 3 times a week I swap the cooking part to go running for an hour. Or I do it at lunch time. Overall I spend quite some time with my wife and child, while still working between 2 and 6 hours more per day. I really don't think I have a crazy schedule, nor that I don't spend enough time with my wife or child, or doing sport.
- Insanity 4y ago
  I think the interesting parties to answer that are your wife and kid (in the future). There is subjectivity in what constitutes “enough”. And there is also quality vs quantity. Each family is obviously different. As friendly advice, have an open conversation with your wife about that. Speaking from personal experience, I definitely had months where I thought I was balancing my time well enough and my wife disagreed.
  - 4y ago

jooz 4y ago

[dead]

watwut 4y ago

Because you are building strawman and false dichotomy. And also because people able to take proper rest are more productive in the long term.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Chinjut 4y ago

Because I need money to exchange for goods and services in order to live, particularly in order to maintain housing and healthcare. I would love to be paid to pursue my passions full-time, but that opportunity has not yet arisen. So I split my time accordingly between doing what earns me a living and doing what I actually enjoy in life.