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Birds have a higher neuron density. Each neuron is a mini Turing machine running on DNA instructions so they could also have better instinctual software.
by cjbgkagh 4y ago
Birds have a higher neuron density. Each neuron is a mini Turing machine running on DNA instructions so they could also have better instinctual software.
- dcow 4y agoNot sure if that analogy holds exactly. Neurons don't “compute”, they simply emit a signal that depends on how “saturated” they currently are, right?
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- cjbgkagh 4y agoFeel free to research it. The ‘saturated’ analogy is overly simplistic and elides the incredible complexity of what’s actually going on.
- dcow 4y agoBut neurons certainly aren’t mini Turing machines, either? Happy to inform myself more if you can point me in the right direction.
- svnt 4y agoCells perform a staggering number of parallel computations. Neurons are cells, and perform these same calculations and more in addition to emitting spikes. Spikes, rather than being the major form of computation, appear instead to be a means of maintaining synchronization.
- dcow 4y agoI quite honestly did not think of it this way. But it makes some sense. I always thought cells perform, for lack of a better term, self-maintenance operations independently from their macro function (the receiving and emitting of spikes, in this case). I did not think of the internal operations of a cell being connected to the macro function in any sophisticated or meaningful way. I would love to inform myself better on this topic since it is not by area of expertise, and I have an admittedly cursory understanding.
- cjbgkagh 4y agoI do think the field of psychopharmacology is probably sufficient to give an appreciation of the complexity involved at the same time as being useful to the practical understanding of how medications (and food) change behavior. It's also well studied and there are good books. I think Dr Stahl's books are the university standard. Like a lot of science though I think much of it is 'current best guess'. For information on the modifying DNA expression in neurons that's under epigenetics and not as well studied.
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- Choco31415 4y agoThat simplifies neurons a bit too much. There are a variety of neuron types including mirror neurons and pyramid neurons. These can feature more or less branching even.
- dcow 4y agoMy point is they operate more like gates. They aren’t mini Turing machines.
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- rolph 4y agoneurons have gates, these gates interconnect and form logic networks. these are histeretic, programable, and dynamic. the neuronal body state, the electro-osmotic environment, the past history of state are primary effectors of structure,and function resultant in the logic.
- Choco31415 4y agoYou are correct. Neurons are not Turing machines. However, they are complex enough that they can be Turing machines so it can be fun to call them that. I didn’t expect this topic to be so controversial to be honest. I’m not surprised though.
- dcow 4y agoI fully admit I may be underinformed. I had thought, though, that neurons were not sophisticated in the way a Turing machine is and much more akin to memristors. However, that may be a memristor tinted view of the world.
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- hackinthebochs 4y agoNeurons definitely compute. The dendrites that aggregate signals to initiate an action potential are not just simple summations but complex arrangements of signal promoters and inhibitors. The complexity of a pyramidal neuron is equivalent to a 5-8 layer artificial NN. https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-computationally-complex-is-a-single-neuron-20210902/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-computationally-complex-i... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627321005018 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089662732...
- cjbgkagh 4y agoAnd that result is just from a computer simulation of a neuron that focuses on the dendrites and doesn't appear to extensively model the nucleus. "Unfortunately, it’s currently impossible for neuroscientists to record the full input-output function of a real neuron, so there’s likely more going on that the model of a biological neuron isn’t capturing. In other words, real neurons might be even more complex."
- jacquesm 4y agoThis makes no sense in the way neurons work as far as I understand it. RNA 'instructions' are processed by the Ribosome to make proteins, it isn't software in a machine code sense but more of molecular specification for a piece of material to be produced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribosome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribosome
- cjbgkagh 4y agoDNA does more than make proteins…
- rolph 4y agoin the strictest sense DNA doesnt make anything. the interaction between DNA and polymerase class nucleo-polymers result in assembly of sequence conservative polymers. for the most part this is RNAclass material, but includes DNA during replication and error correction events
- dekhn 4y agoI only downvoted you because "each neuron is a mini Turing machine running on DNA instructions" isn't a very helpful observation except at the most abstract level.
- cjbgkagh 4y agoIn my extensive research of neurons (as an independent/citizen scientist) it looks like the closest analogy to me. Neuron behavior is not only mediated by DNA but neurons can also write changes back into DNA, not to mention the nucleus soup that acts a bit like registers. I work on small molecule peptide medicine that changes gene expression in the neurons and other to glia cells to treat medical conditions.
- taneq 4y agoDo you have any evidence for this? Sounds interesting if so.
- cjbgkagh 4y agoThe general field is Epigenetics (gene expression based on environment), and within that there is research on how peptides act as modulators by silencing and un-silencing different genes. You can get a list of known bioactive peptides by reading it from the DNA or by using mass spectrometry (there’s a proper name for this but it escapes me atm). So putting the two together you can have quite a bit of external control over gene expression.
- rolph 4y agoHPLC [1] or Electrophoresy [2] would be instrumental in isolating peptides based on mobility, and molecular mass. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-performance_liquid_chromatography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-performance_liquid_chroma... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrophoresis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrophoresis
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