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Weird. That device had to cost many times more than a canary.

by JoeAltmaier 4y ago

ginko 4y ago
Coal miners probably liked their canaries quite a bit.
- anotheraccount9 4y ago
  Yes, and keeping and improving morale is priceless. If they perceived the canary as a companion, keep it alive was important.
baobabKoodaa 4y ago
Yes. Maybe there's a sense of duty and reciprocity involved, since the canary is the one saving miners' lives.
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  Miners would not have afforded it either, 1800's coal miners in the Midlands and southwest of England would have included a fair share of children since they could deal with narrower spaces better. Siebe Gorman & Company Ltd was building deep diving gear in the 1800s. This would have been very niche and very expensive. Not to be overly cynical but this was likely used as a soirée entertainment contraption rather than intended for actual mine use.
  - jakzurr 4y ago
    > soirée entertainment contraption rather than intended for actual mine use Disturbing; and I seem to remember reading that people did use vacuum pumps for similar horrors. However, looking at the wear on the device in the first pic, I'm hoping that the story explained by the museum is true.
capableweb 4y ago
With the device you could use one canary many times, instead of just having use for one canary one time. One could argue about the morality/ethics of using one canary many times, but it seems simpler at least than to keep tens/hundreds of canaries available at every mine.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  In other words: there's an opportunity here for a startup offering subscription-based Canaries as a Service - someone will come every day to the customer to deliver new canaries and take spent ones. Canaries become the startup's responsibility, so the mine can focus on its core competency; something opex over capex, synergy etc. Invest now!
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    The canary cage needs DRM and a network connection to make sure only "authorised" canaries can be used and aren't past their expiry date nor recalled.
  - hnbad 4y ago
    Combine this with a side gig of processing expired canaries.
    - gpderetta 4y ago
      No, no, as a side gig, you can be the canary!
  - alex_suzuki 4y ago
    these canaries are strictly on-premise, or can we shift them to the Cloud too?
    - KMag 4y ago
      Don't forget web3 on-chain canaries!
crazygringo 4y ago
Even so, that doesn't necessarily make it any less economically sound. If it cost as much as 10 canaries, but replaced the need for 20 canaries (over a lifespan of 10-15 years), it still checks out from a business sense. And the device itself lasts for decades so it's amortized across many years. Not to mention the additional cost and complexity of a "canary supply chain". Unlike bottles of oxygen, you can't just warehouse canaries for months without constant daily care. Now obviously there are emotional/ethical elements as well as mentioned by other commenters... but I just want to point out that these don't have to be opposed to the economics of it, but can be in addition to it.
modriano 4y ago
I bet that it enabled miners to get back to mining quicker, as they didn't have to bring in a replacement canary to check if the air was safe yet. So I bet that's the financial justification for the expense.
- credit_guy 4y ago
  Most likely they would need a replacement canary. For humans the aftereffects of carbon monoxide poisoning can last for weeks. Canaries will probably need some time to recover too. If the canary doesn’t chirp, it probably does not function well as a warning system. You need to keep checking on it visually, which means you can only work within sight of it, and this limits your ability to work.
tzs 4y ago
I'd expect that many mines have bottlenecks when exiting, like elevators, so a group of miners evacuating because their canary died might have to wait a while in some safe area to exit. They would want to be able to monitor for gas in that safe area. So they would need a second canary. And they would have had to keep that second canary separated from the first so that when they enter some place that will kill the first it doesn't take out the second there. That seems like it would be quite a hassle. Having one canary that can be reset after a gas detection would be a lot easier to deal with, and gives them a lot more flexibility if they can't promptly evacuate.

Weird. That device had to cost many times more than a canary.

ginko 4y ago

Coal miners probably liked their canaries quite a bit.

anotheraccount9 4y ago
Yes, and keeping and improving morale is priceless. If they perceived the canary as a companion, keep it alive was important.

baobabKoodaa 4y ago

Yes. Maybe there's a sense of duty and reciprocity involved, since the canary is the one saving miners' lives.

DoingIsLearning 4y ago
Miners would not have afforded it either, 1800's coal miners in the Midlands and southwest of England would have included a fair share of children since they could deal with narrower spaces better. Siebe Gorman & Company Ltd was building deep diving gear in the 1800s. This would have been very niche and very expensive. Not to be overly cynical but this was likely used as a soirée entertainment contraption rather than intended for actual mine use.
- jakzurr 4y ago
  > soirée entertainment contraption rather than intended for actual mine use Disturbing; and I seem to remember reading that people did use vacuum pumps for similar horrors. However, looking at the wear on the device in the first pic, I'm hoping that the story explained by the museum is true.

capableweb 4y ago

With the device you could use one canary many times, instead of just having use for one canary one time. One could argue about the morality/ethics of using one canary many times, but it seems simpler at least than to keep tens/hundreds of canaries available at every mine.

TeMPOraL 4y ago
In other words: there's an opportunity here for a startup offering subscription-based Canaries as a Service - someone will come every day to the customer to deliver new canaries and take spent ones. Canaries become the startup's responsibility, so the mine can focus on its core competency; something opex over capex, synergy etc. Invest now!
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  The canary cage needs DRM and a network connection to make sure only "authorised" canaries can be used and aren't past their expiry date nor recalled.
- hnbad 4y ago
  Combine this with a side gig of processing expired canaries.
  - gpderetta 4y ago
    No, no, as a side gig, you can be the canary!
- alex_suzuki 4y ago
  these canaries are strictly on-premise, or can we shift them to the Cloud too?
  - KMag 4y ago
    Don't forget web3 on-chain canaries!

crazygringo 4y ago

Even so, that doesn't necessarily make it any less economically sound. If it cost as much as 10 canaries, but replaced the need for 20 canaries (over a lifespan of 10-15 years), it still checks out from a business sense. And the device itself lasts for decades so it's amortized across many years. Not to mention the additional cost and complexity of a "canary supply chain". Unlike bottles of oxygen, you can't just warehouse canaries for months without constant daily care. Now obviously there are emotional/ethical elements as well as mentioned by other commenters... but I just want to point out that these don't have to be opposed to the economics of it, but can be in addition to it.

modriano 4y ago

I bet that it enabled miners to get back to mining quicker, as they didn't have to bring in a replacement canary to check if the air was safe yet. So I bet that's the financial justification for the expense.

credit_guy 4y ago
Most likely they would need a replacement canary. For humans the aftereffects of carbon monoxide poisoning can last for weeks. Canaries will probably need some time to recover too. If the canary doesn’t chirp, it probably does not function well as a warning system. You need to keep checking on it visually, which means you can only work within sight of it, and this limits your ability to work.

tzs 4y ago

I'd expect that many mines have bottlenecks when exiting, like elevators, so a group of miners evacuating because their canary died might have to wait a while in some safe area to exit. They would want to be able to monitor for gas in that safe area. So they would need a second canary. And they would have had to keep that second canary separated from the first so that when they enter some place that will kill the first it doesn't take out the second there. That seems like it would be quite a hassle. Having one canary that can be reset after a gas detection would be a lot easier to deal with, and gives them a lot more flexibility if they can't promptly evacuate.