4 ms·

More than what’s here. The amount of money narco cartels are spending rival NATO countries in some cases.

qwerty456127 4y ago
Just legalize the drugs and tax this for good. People want drugs. Why is this so hard to accept? Many (not all, obviously) drug users manage to sustain better health and lives than an average drug-hater.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Drug criminalisation also provides funding and a market for other crime such as weapons smuggling and "homebrew" "justice" since they cannot use the normal justice system to resolve disputes.
- readams 4y ago
  In California, the illegal marijuana market continues to thrive because of the taxes and regulation.
  - reidjs 4y ago
    I'm having trouble verifying this. I find it unlikely that the illegal marijuana market is 'thriving' in California. It seems like all of the illegal weed dealers pivoted to selling mushrooms.
    - readams 4y ago
      https://www.kqed.org/news/11901878/californias-marijuana-economy-threatened-by-growing-illegal-market https://www.kqed.org/news/11901878/californias-marijuana-eco...
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Also, marijuana is not legal in the US at large, which California is a part of. Hard to judge the situation when it's legal but not really legal. Banks still refuse to help companies in the marijuana industry for example, as it is illegal on the federal level.
  - ever1337 4y ago
    the other big problem is not enough licenses being given out to sell marijuana, and extensive corruption in the awarding of those licenses. much of the "legal" grows are diverted to the black market, because there is demand but no ability to sell. black market marijuana these days, depending on location and circumstances of course, is cheaper and higher quality than the legal market.
  - qwerty456127 4y ago
    Just fix the taxation and regulation and increase enforcement. The illegal market will thrive if legal weed costs more than 2 times the illegal at equal quality and practically no risk. But I believe almost nobody will take any risk if the risk is real and the cost of avoiding it completely (by buying legal) is just a dollar or two extra.
- loa_in_ 4y ago
  Drug usage culture leads to better drug usage education and prevention than ever taught to public. Just read through "trip reports" etc. There's basically nobody telling you drugs are "all fun", because they're apparently not fun. But so is nicotine.
- hackeraccount 4y ago
  Tolerance is a difficult thing. Standing by and watching people hurt themselves can seem equivalent to actually hurting people.
  - api 4y ago
    To me a lot of even the protective rationale for prohibition is shown to be nonsense by alcohol being legal. Alcohol is as bad or worse than most illegal drugs save maybe crystal meth and some opiates. It’s also one of the more addictive ones, up there with the opiates and possibly more so than cocaine for some people. (There seem to be differences in susceptibility to addiction to different substances between people just like everything else.) All drugs can be harmful if misused or abused, even very tame OTC pharmaceuticals. Semi-automatic weapons, very fast cars, risky sexual practices, huge fireworks, and dangerous sports are also legal at least in most of the USA.
    - analog31 4y ago
      Another legal drug in the US is tobacco. For decades it was heavily marketed as being safe, healthy, and cool. Yet its addictive properties raise questions about whether its use is strictly voluntary.
    - qwerty456127 4y ago
      > Alcohol is as bad or worse than most illegal drugs save maybe crystal meth Don't try this at home! :-) Not a medical advice, just logical speculation: It is hard yet possible [for some rare individuals] to use meth sustainably for significant good and little harm. Right dosage, right supplements, right mindfulness, right partner and you can have increased productivity and sustain it, together with reasonably good health, for decades. I know there are at least some people who manage and that also is why medical desoxyn exists. I believe individuals who can sustainably extract any significant productivity increase from regular (I don't mind an occasional beer with a friend) alcohol usage while minimizing the harm it does to really negligible levels are even more rare.
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    For many drugs, the worst negative effects are caused directly or indirectly by the drug being illegal. Opiates in general have very limited negative effects on your body - constipation is a common complication. People can be highly functional when using controlled doses of heroine. Morphine is a fairly common analgesic in hospitals because it’s strong, effective and poses little danger. But needle sharing, the social stigma, the impurities in the drugs, the varying quality, that’s what gets you in the end. And all of these are caused by the drug being illegal, and to address this, you must make drug use legal. That doesn’t mean make it freely accessible in a supermarket, but controlled access like cigarettes and alcohol. Drug use must be treated like an illness, through health and prevention programs, through the medical system. Portugal does so, to great effect. So if you’re talking about harm reduction being the priority, then prioritize legalization. It will almost instantly reduce harm.
- AlgorithmicTime 4y ago
  [dead]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
The cartels basically run a parallel state in many places so that's not surprising. Look at tax rates in the relevant nations and figure that the cartels use a good chunk of the same amount of money (they spend much less on social services and administrative programs that don't need duplication).
ubermonkey 4y ago
I mean, obviously the cartels have lots of money, but they don't have anywhere near the kind of money that NATO states spend on defense. The UK, for example, spends like $60 billion on defense. Which NATO states do you have in mind?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  My numbers are almost a decade old, I can’t speak to specifics, but wanted to give a rough scale that this website is not doing justice to the complex wheels the cartels have in motion.

Just legalize the drugs and tax this for good. People want drugs. Why is this so hard to accept? Many (not all, obviously) drug users manage to sustain better health and lives than an average drug-hater.

Nextgrid 4y ago
Drug criminalisation also provides funding and a market for other crime such as weapons smuggling and "homebrew" "justice" since they cannot use the normal justice system to resolve disputes.
readams 4y ago
In California, the illegal marijuana market continues to thrive because of the taxes and regulation.
- reidjs 4y ago
  I'm having trouble verifying this. I find it unlikely that the illegal marijuana market is 'thriving' in California. It seems like all of the illegal weed dealers pivoted to selling mushrooms.
  - readams 4y ago
    https://www.kqed.org/news/11901878/californias-marijuana-economy-threatened-by-growing-illegal-market https://www.kqed.org/news/11901878/californias-marijuana-eco...
- capableweb 4y ago
  Also, marijuana is not legal in the US at large, which California is a part of. Hard to judge the situation when it's legal but not really legal. Banks still refuse to help companies in the marijuana industry for example, as it is illegal on the federal level.
- ever1337 4y ago
  the other big problem is not enough licenses being given out to sell marijuana, and extensive corruption in the awarding of those licenses. much of the "legal" grows are diverted to the black market, because there is demand but no ability to sell. black market marijuana these days, depending on location and circumstances of course, is cheaper and higher quality than the legal market.
- qwerty456127 4y ago
  Just fix the taxation and regulation and increase enforcement. The illegal market will thrive if legal weed costs more than 2 times the illegal at equal quality and practically no risk. But I believe almost nobody will take any risk if the risk is real and the cost of avoiding it completely (by buying legal) is just a dollar or two extra.
loa_in_ 4y ago
Drug usage culture leads to better drug usage education and prevention than ever taught to public. Just read through "trip reports" etc. There's basically nobody telling you drugs are "all fun", because they're apparently not fun. But so is nicotine.
hackeraccount 4y ago
Tolerance is a difficult thing. Standing by and watching people hurt themselves can seem equivalent to actually hurting people.
- api 4y ago
  To me a lot of even the protective rationale for prohibition is shown to be nonsense by alcohol being legal. Alcohol is as bad or worse than most illegal drugs save maybe crystal meth and some opiates. It’s also one of the more addictive ones, up there with the opiates and possibly more so than cocaine for some people. (There seem to be differences in susceptibility to addiction to different substances between people just like everything else.) All drugs can be harmful if misused or abused, even very tame OTC pharmaceuticals. Semi-automatic weapons, very fast cars, risky sexual practices, huge fireworks, and dangerous sports are also legal at least in most of the USA.
  - analog31 4y ago
    Another legal drug in the US is tobacco. For decades it was heavily marketed as being safe, healthy, and cool. Yet its addictive properties raise questions about whether its use is strictly voluntary.
  - qwerty456127 4y ago
    > Alcohol is as bad or worse than most illegal drugs save maybe crystal meth Don't try this at home! :-) Not a medical advice, just logical speculation: It is hard yet possible [for some rare individuals] to use meth sustainably for significant good and little harm. Right dosage, right supplements, right mindfulness, right partner and you can have increased productivity and sustain it, together with reasonably good health, for decades. I know there are at least some people who manage and that also is why medical desoxyn exists. I believe individuals who can sustainably extract any significant productivity increase from regular (I don't mind an occasional beer with a friend) alcohol usage while minimizing the harm it does to really negligible levels are even more rare.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  For many drugs, the worst negative effects are caused directly or indirectly by the drug being illegal. Opiates in general have very limited negative effects on your body - constipation is a common complication. People can be highly functional when using controlled doses of heroine. Morphine is a fairly common analgesic in hospitals because it’s strong, effective and poses little danger. But needle sharing, the social stigma, the impurities in the drugs, the varying quality, that’s what gets you in the end. And all of these are caused by the drug being illegal, and to address this, you must make drug use legal. That doesn’t mean make it freely accessible in a supermarket, but controlled access like cigarettes and alcohol. Drug use must be treated like an illness, through health and prevention programs, through the medical system. Portugal does so, to great effect. So if you’re talking about harm reduction being the priority, then prioritize legalization. It will almost instantly reduce harm.
AlgorithmicTime 4y ago
[dead]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dsfyu404ed 4y ago

The cartels basically run a parallel state in many places so that's not surprising. Look at tax rates in the relevant nations and figure that the cartels use a good chunk of the same amount of money (they spend much less on social services and administrative programs that don't need duplication).

ubermonkey 4y ago

I mean, obviously the cartels have lots of money, but they don't have anywhere near the kind of money that NATO states spend on defense. The UK, for example, spends like $60 billion on defense. Which NATO states do you have in mind?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
imwillofficial 4y ago
My numbers are almost a decade old, I can’t speak to specifics, but wanted to give a rough scale that this website is not doing justice to the complex wheels the cartels have in motion.