10 ms·

This isn't the case for all trades people. It might be a bad area or a bad employer. I've know trades folks who are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, work in

by mfer 4y ago

This isn't the case for all trades people. It might be a bad area or a bad employer. I've know trades folks who are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, work in road construction, etc. They typically work reasonable hours, have medical, and are paid at or above the median income for where they live. They didn't rack up debt getting into this either. This is not a bad deal for many people.

brightball 4y ago
Especially if you are remotely trustworthy and have good people skills. The good tradespeople I know are recommended by everybody else I know and constantly backlogged. Plumbers, HVAC, Electricians, General Contractors, etc
- brewtide 4y ago
  I'm a house painter, and I'm about a year out from now. It's better than no work, but it's rather insane. "I'd love to but it will be 8 months or so and I can't imagine you'd want to wait that long". "Oh no, well wait!". And the list grows longer.
  - brightball 4y ago
    Probably a good sign you can increase your prices too. Congrats on all the business!
ogre_battle 4y ago
> it might be a bad area or a bad employer. Outside of big cities, there may not be enough demand, esp. consistent demand, to justify good pay and bennies. My uncle is a welder, has a lot of specializations including some underwater stuff. No shortage of offers... for 6 weeks of work in nowhere-ville, often requiring you to supply your own transport and housing. 3 months in FL, 6 months in NC, 8 weeks in GA. And they all pay crap.
- mfer 4y ago
  > Outside of big cities, there may not be enough demand, esp. consistent demand, to justify good pay and bennies. I guess that depends how far outside cities. In the suburbs there is demand. There is a shortage of trades and many trades folks are older in age. When they retire there isn't the back fill behind them. And all of this is happening as the population is growing.
  - eropple 4y ago
    > In the suburbs there is demand. Largely for residential, which is relatively cheap and lower-skilled. (Not low-skilled, but the barrier to entry is lower.)
  - Brybry 4y ago
    US population growth is mostly flat, all the growth is from immigration.[1][2] And those people are filling trade skill jobs. [3] > More than one-third of construction laborers (686,000 workers), at least 30 percent of carpenters (382,000 workers), and 45 percent of painters and paperhangers (264,000 workers) are immigrants. And without them the population long term would decrease (which is obvious from the low fertility rate). [4] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/05/us/immigration-census-population.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/05/us/immigration-census-pop... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Growth_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... [3] https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/covid19-immigrants-construction-infrastructure/ https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/covid19-immig... [4] https://www.cato.org/blog/census-finds-us-population-will-decline-without-immigration https://www.cato.org/blog/census-finds-us-population-will-de...
    - chrisdhoover 4y ago
      True that. Every job site I go to is filled with hardworking Mexicans and Central Americans.
      - midoridensha 4y ago
falcolas 4y ago
There's a semi-retired craftsman I watch regularly on youtube - Essential Craftsman. Almost all long-term success stories in the trades which he tells directly or gets from his friends involve transitioning from a tradesman to an employer. You're selling your health and body as a tradesman. If you can make the transition to running a trades business, then you're selling your brainpower more than your body. Success stories in the trades are fairly consistent in this matter.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  Came here to say this. Growing up in the Midwest I saw this all the time. The kids of plumbers that owned a plumbing business lived in a very nice part of town, the kids of plumbers still going to job sites lived in an OK part of town.
  - TimTheTinker 4y ago
    This also applies to self-employed tradespeople who have good reputations in their area.
    - throwaway5959 4y ago
      100%. Worth their weight in gold, in both financial and productivity measures.
- keybored 4y ago
  > You're selling your health and body as a tradesman. If you can make the transition to running a trades business, then you're selling your brainpower more than your body. Selling your brainpower meaning managing the people who will sell their health and body as tradesmen. A minor racket.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > managing the people who will sell their health and body as tradesmen. A minor racket. A racket? He just became a 'wealth creator'! How dare you compare a visionary entrepreneur to a pimp!
UncleMeat 4y ago
It might be a bad area. There aren't better employers in the area. He knows he is being abused. He used to live and work as an electrician in another country where he was treated considerably better. He spends his days wiring new homes that sell for 1.5M+ and gets treated like crap. Moving is unfortunately not an option because my sister's career is very location-dependent. "Well if you aren't in one of the good areas you'll get fucked" doesn't tend to make it into articles like the linked above and I think it is worth knowing.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  New home/residential wiring jobs are basically the entry point for electricians. It's about as mindless and simple as it gets. I'm not sure what the licensing requirements are but those are the sorts of jobs that an electrical contractor puts their new/junior people on.
  - nullsense 4y ago
    I know nothing about the industry, but out of curiosity... what are considered the more interesting jobs?
    - jasondigitized 4y ago
      Higher voltage = Higher wages
      - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        And a perk, in casse of on-the job death, free cremation service included!
    - prottog 4y ago
      I only know a bit more than nothing, but I'd wager anything industrial is considered more interesting. Single-family residential wiring, especially for new construction where there's nothing in the way, is so simple that even I, using just what I've learned being a homeowner, could meet code with it.
JamesBarney 4y ago
And they get to start their career 4 years earlier.

by mfer 4y ago

brightball 4y ago

Especially if you are remotely trustworthy and have good people skills. The good tradespeople I know are recommended by everybody else I know and constantly backlogged. Plumbers, HVAC, Electricians, General Contractors, etc

brewtide 4y ago
I'm a house painter, and I'm about a year out from now. It's better than no work, but it's rather insane. "I'd love to but it will be 8 months or so and I can't imagine you'd want to wait that long". "Oh no, well wait!". And the list grows longer.
- brightball 4y ago
  Probably a good sign you can increase your prices too. Congrats on all the business!

ogre_battle 4y ago

> it might be a bad area or a bad employer. Outside of big cities, there may not be enough demand, esp. consistent demand, to justify good pay and bennies. My uncle is a welder, has a lot of specializations including some underwater stuff. No shortage of offers... for 6 weeks of work in nowhere-ville, often requiring you to supply your own transport and housing. 3 months in FL, 6 months in NC, 8 weeks in GA. And they all pay crap.

mfer 4y ago
> Outside of big cities, there may not be enough demand, esp. consistent demand, to justify good pay and bennies. I guess that depends how far outside cities. In the suburbs there is demand. There is a shortage of trades and many trades folks are older in age. When they retire there isn't the back fill behind them. And all of this is happening as the population is growing.
- eropple 4y ago
  > In the suburbs there is demand. Largely for residential, which is relatively cheap and lower-skilled. (Not low-skilled, but the barrier to entry is lower.)
- Brybry 4y ago
  US population growth is mostly flat, all the growth is from immigration.[1][2] And those people are filling trade skill jobs. [3] > More than one-third of construction laborers (686,000 workers), at least 30 percent of carpenters (382,000 workers), and 45 percent of painters and paperhangers (264,000 workers) are immigrants. And without them the population long term would decrease (which is obvious from the low fertility rate). [4] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/05/us/immigration-census-population.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/05/us/immigration-census-pop... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Growth_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... [3] https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/covid19-immigrants-construction-infrastructure/ https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/covid19-immig... [4] https://www.cato.org/blog/census-finds-us-population-will-decline-without-immigration https://www.cato.org/blog/census-finds-us-population-will-de...
  - chrisdhoover 4y ago
    True that. Every job site I go to is filled with hardworking Mexicans and Central Americans.
    - midoridensha 4y ago

falcolas 4y ago

There's a semi-retired craftsman I watch regularly on youtube - Essential Craftsman. Almost all long-term success stories in the trades which he tells directly or gets from his friends involve transitioning from a tradesman to an employer. You're selling your health and body as a tradesman. If you can make the transition to running a trades business, then you're selling your brainpower more than your body. Success stories in the trades are fairly consistent in this matter.

throwaway5959 4y ago
Came here to say this. Growing up in the Midwest I saw this all the time. The kids of plumbers that owned a plumbing business lived in a very nice part of town, the kids of plumbers still going to job sites lived in an OK part of town.
- TimTheTinker 4y ago
  This also applies to self-employed tradespeople who have good reputations in their area.
  - throwaway5959 4y ago
    100%. Worth their weight in gold, in both financial and productivity measures.
keybored 4y ago
> You're selling your health and body as a tradesman. If you can make the transition to running a trades business, then you're selling your brainpower more than your body. Selling your brainpower meaning managing the people who will sell their health and body as tradesmen. A minor racket.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > managing the people who will sell their health and body as tradesmen. A minor racket. A racket? He just became a 'wealth creator'! How dare you compare a visionary entrepreneur to a pimp!

UncleMeat 4y ago

It might be a bad area. There aren't better employers in the area. He knows he is being abused. He used to live and work as an electrician in another country where he was treated considerably better. He spends his days wiring new homes that sell for 1.5M+ and gets treated like crap. Moving is unfortunately not an option because my sister's career is very location-dependent. "Well if you aren't in one of the good areas you'll get fucked" doesn't tend to make it into articles like the linked above and I think it is worth knowing.

SoftTalker 4y ago
New home/residential wiring jobs are basically the entry point for electricians. It's about as mindless and simple as it gets. I'm not sure what the licensing requirements are but those are the sorts of jobs that an electrical contractor puts their new/junior people on.
- nullsense 4y ago
  I know nothing about the industry, but out of curiosity... what are considered the more interesting jobs?
  - jasondigitized 4y ago
    Higher voltage = Higher wages
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      And a perk, in casse of on-the job death, free cremation service included!
  - prottog 4y ago
    I only know a bit more than nothing, but I'd wager anything industrial is considered more interesting. Single-family residential wiring, especially for new construction where there's nothing in the way, is so simple that even I, using just what I've learned being a homeowner, could meet code with it.

JamesBarney 4y ago

And they get to start their career 4 years earlier.